R-compounds on the street?
12-18-2007, 08:02 AM
#25
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I am gonna buck the trend... R-comps on the street are FUN.
Nothing like adhering the passenger up against the window in a corner.
1. Cost isn't that prohibitive with the right R-Comps.
2. A032R's aren't that bad in the wet... ok they are a little dicey but when I lived in Lancaster, CA rain wasn't much of a concern.
3. No Warning noise when they are gonna break away (is this really how you drive?!?)
I will grant people the complaint that they are noisy and you don't want to commute 2 hours each way on them... although me and the wife did run BFG/R1's back in the day as commuting tires. The cost when all was said and done about the same as the goodyear eagles that came on the T/A and a good set of tires on the Miata.
It is a shame that Yokohama no longer makes the RE92, that was a badass tire. It did everything well. A032R's are a great street tire, but just a little noisy. Azenis are a great compromise tire though.
Mark
Nothing like adhering the passenger up against the window in a corner.
1. Cost isn't that prohibitive with the right R-Comps.
2. A032R's aren't that bad in the wet... ok they are a little dicey but when I lived in Lancaster, CA rain wasn't much of a concern.
3. No Warning noise when they are gonna break away (is this really how you drive?!?)
I will grant people the complaint that they are noisy and you don't want to commute 2 hours each way on them... although me and the wife did run BFG/R1's back in the day as commuting tires. The cost when all was said and done about the same as the goodyear eagles that came on the T/A and a good set of tires on the Miata.
It is a shame that Yokohama no longer makes the RE92, that was a badass tire. It did everything well. A032R's are a great street tire, but just a little noisy. Azenis are a great compromise tire though.
Mark
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12-18-2007, 05:24 PM
#26
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The answer is NO for two reasons.
1. Rain, bad roads, etc... your traction will be severely limited, to a dangerous extent
2. Rt-615's, RE-01R, MX, and some others are all street tires with tread patterns and they are all capable of 1g or more. Do you need to pull more than 1g on the street? The answer is absolutely not, and if you are, you're driving extremely recklessly.
1. Rain, bad roads, etc... your traction will be severely limited, to a dangerous extent
2. Rt-615's, RE-01R, MX, and some others are all street tires with tread patterns and they are all capable of 1g or more. Do you need to pull more than 1g on the street? The answer is absolutely not, and if you are, you're driving extremely recklessly.
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12-18-2007, 05:28 PM
#28
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Personally I'd wait for kumho's new tire since it will be cheaper than the bridgestone and probably just as good.
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12-18-2007, 06:42 PM
#30
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The recently announced Ecsta XS. There is presently some confusion as to whether it will be made available in any 15" sizes.
Of course, this is the same company that makes a lavendar-scented tire and a tire that produces colored smoke when spun, so who knows what to expect.
Of course, this is the same company that makes a lavendar-scented tire and a tire that produces colored smoke when spun, so who knows what to expect.
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12-18-2007, 07:21 PM
#31
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The recently announced Ecsta XS. There is presently some confusion as to whether it will be made available in any 15" sizes.
Of course, this is the same company that makes a lavendar-scented tire and a tire that produces colored smoke when spun, so who knows what to expect.
Of course, this is the same company that makes a lavendar-scented tire and a tire that produces colored smoke when spun, so who knows what to expect.
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12-18-2007, 07:35 PM
#32
The MX is inferior to the RT-615 / RE-01R / RS2 , STS autox results seem to reflect this, but top STS guys are running shaved street tires, so who knows.
It's not like it comes in 225/45/15 anyways. Just the RS2 and the new toyo that should be here soon.
Who knows what the XS and R1R will be like.
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12-18-2007, 07:54 PM
#33
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From what I have read (No personal experience)
The MX is inferior to the RT-615 / RE-01R / RS2 , STS autox results seem to reflect this, but top STS guys are running shaved street tires, so who knows.
It's not like it comes in 225/45/15 anyways. Just the RS2 and the new toyo that should be here soon.
Who knows what the XS and R1R will be like.
The MX is inferior to the RT-615 / RE-01R / RS2 , STS autox results seem to reflect this, but top STS guys are running shaved street tires, so who knows.
It's not like it comes in 225/45/15 anyways. Just the RS2 and the new toyo that should be here soon.
Who knows what the XS and R1R will be like.
That's my 2 cents
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12-18-2007, 10:05 PM
#35
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The answer is NO for two reasons.
1. Rain, bad roads, etc... your traction will be severely limited, to a dangerous extent
2. Rt-615's, RE-01R, MX, and some others are all street tires with tread patterns and they are all capable of 1g or more. Do you need to pull more than 1g on the street? The answer is absolutely not, and if you are, you're driving extremely recklessly.
1. Rain, bad roads, etc... your traction will be severely limited, to a dangerous extent
2. Rt-615's, RE-01R, MX, and some others are all street tires with tread patterns and they are all capable of 1g or more. Do you need to pull more than 1g on the street? The answer is absolutely not, and if you are, you're driving extremely recklessly.
I'm sorry, that's bullshit. You can drive at over 1g on the street without being reckless. There are plenty of roads where it's not just possible, it's a lot of fun. Driving recklessly implies a loss of control, so just picking a number, like 1g doesn't mean ****. If my car were capable of 1.25g and I drive it up to 1g, I have a HUGE safety margin. If my car is capable of .9g and I drive at .8g, who has the lower safety margin. Your argument is moronic.
Mark
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12-18-2007, 10:19 PM
#36
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You might want to head back over to Miata.net. Where do you get this asinine and arbitrary number that more than 1g on the street is reckless driving? So someone driving an FD RX-7 at 1g with good tires is driving recklessly and the guy in the festiva who manages to pull .85g on crappy tires is not driving recklessly?
I'm sorry, that's bullshit. You can drive at over 1g on the street without being reckless. There are plenty of roads where it's not just possible, it's a lot of fun. Driving recklessly implies a loss of control, so just picking a number, like 1g doesn't mean ****. If my car were capable of 1.25g and I drive it up to 1g, I have a HUGE safety margin. If my car is capable of .9g and I drive at .8g, who has the lower safety margin. Your argument is moronic.
Mark
I'm sorry, that's bullshit. You can drive at over 1g on the street without being reckless. There are plenty of roads where it's not just possible, it's a lot of fun. Driving recklessly implies a loss of control, so just picking a number, like 1g doesn't mean ****. If my car were capable of 1.25g and I drive it up to 1g, I have a HUGE safety margin. If my car is capable of .9g and I drive at .8g, who has the lower safety margin. Your argument is moronic.
Mark
do you even realize how hard you're cornering at 1 g-force? To actually hit that number on the street it's safe to say that you'd need to be going well over double the speed limit or double the rated speed on a corner. At these speeds you can run into several problems including but not limited to:1. Being unable to react fast enough to sudden issues with other drivers. What if someone veers into your lane in the middle of your 1g corner?
2. The car not having any capability left to do anything when you need to react to an obstacle such as other cars, sudden changes in road conditions, etc...
3. If you're seen by a cop doing this you'll get a massive ticket and possibly arrested.
The list goes on. You say reckless implies a loss of control. On the street you are automatically at a loss of control in many factors that don't normally come into play on a race track, and these risks are greatly magnified by speeding to the extent that you're reaching your tire's limit.
And no. If your car is capable of 1.25g's (which is dubious on street tires) and you're cornering at 1g, that is a very small margin.
You're the one that's pulling numbers out of their ***. Go ride in a fully prepped STS car at an autocross and tell me it would be safe to sustain cornering forces like that on the street.
You are a noob.
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12-18-2007, 10:26 PM
#37
From what I have read (No personal experience)
The MX is inferior to the RT-615 / RE-01R / RS2 , STS autox results seem to reflect this, but top STS guys are running shaved street tires, so who knows.
It's not like it comes in 225/45/15 anyways. Just the RS2 and the new toyo that should be here soon.
Who knows what the XS and R1R will be like.
The MX is inferior to the RT-615 / RE-01R / RS2 , STS autox results seem to reflect this, but top STS guys are running shaved street tires, so who knows.
It's not like it comes in 225/45/15 anyways. Just the RS2 and the new toyo that should be here soon.
Who knows what the XS and R1R will be like.
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12-18-2007, 10:45 PM
#39
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The reason I picked 1g as an "arbitrary" number, is because that's pretty close to the limit of a good street tire in a mildly modified car with a half decent alignment. Also:
do you even realize how hard you're cornering at 1 g-force? To actually hit that number on the street it's safe to say that you'd need to be going well over double the speed limit or double the rated speed on a corner. At these speeds you can run into several problems including but not limited to:
do you even realize how hard you're cornering at 1 g-force? To actually hit that number on the street it's safe to say that you'd need to be going well over double the speed limit or double the rated speed on a corner. At these speeds you can run into several problems including but not limited to:
1. Being unable to react fast enough to sudden issues with other drivers. What if someone veers into your lane in the middle of your 1g corner?
2. The car not having any capability left to do anything when you need to react to an obstacle such as other cars, sudden changes in road conditions, etc...
3. If you're seen by a cop doing this you'll get a massive ticket and possibly arrested.
The list goes on. You say reckless implies a loss of control. On the street you are automatically at a loss of control in many factors that don't normally come into play on a race track, and these risks are greatly magnified by speeding to the extent that you're reaching your tire's limit.
And no. If your car is capable of 1.25g's (which is dubious on street tires) and you're cornering at 1g, that is a very small margin.
You're the one that's pulling numbers out of their ***. Go ride in a fully prepped STS car at an autocross and tell me it would be safe to sustain cornering forces like that on the street.
You are a noob.
Mark
PS - I'm the autocross champion in my apartment complex.
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12-18-2007, 10:59 PM
#40
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Yes, I have driven on skidpads, I have done HPDE (Bondurant, Fastlane, etc), I have driven a number of vehicles from Shifter Karts and Formula Fords to Geo Metro's. And finally I have owned street cars that were capable of cornering in excess of 1g. So yes, You might say that I am familiar with cornering forces. And not always do you have to be so excessive in exceeding speed limits to generate these forces. Take a 50 MPH road with a 90 degree right turn onto another 50 MPH, I promise you that you can break 1g without exceeding the speed limit.
So by your argument, it would make sense to have r-compounds on the street in order to pull an extra 1/4 g force on one or two out of the thousands of corners you come across?
Read the example above. A car capable of 1.25g has more capability left in it at 1g than a "regular" car capable of .9g does at .8g's cornering force.
What does this have to do with anything? There are virtually no street driven miatas on street tires that can pull that many g's to begin with, your point is moot
Somehow in my 40 years I have avoided getting arrested. Soon to be 41 years. Maybe you are older than me, maybe not, but the fact remains that I have yet to be arrested behind the wheel... tickets, ya, I've had a few. It's not a big deal and won't stop me from speeding anytime soon.
Physics doesn't take a vacation at the racetrack. You go off in the sand at willow springs and you'll learn that lesson rather well as your car flips over and over. You're not "safer" on a racetrack unless you consider the fact that you have additional safety equipment on or that the meat wagon is close by.
This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever heard on the internet. Congratulations for being oblivious to all factors other than your own driving.
LMAO, I am the noob. Oh, that's really good. I have built cars that have placed nationally in SM2. You might want to consider the fact that I have a lot more experience than you might think. I never said my car was capable of 1.25g's on street tires, on race rubber it probably is. My "street" car has 700 lb springs on the front, 450 lb springs in the back, and a ride height adjustable set of mazdaspeed coilovers.
You definitely don't come across as someone with racing experience. And if your car can't pull 1g on street tires, where the hell did you come up with your "1.25g" number that has nothing to do with anything? And congrats on having stiff springs and coilovers, I'm really happy for you. It also has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Let's recap my original point since it seems to be lost on you.
1. R-compounds on the street are pointless because there is no need to be able to exceed the limits of a good street tire outside of competition. There aren't any places on the street where it is called for to be driving like that. There are too many factors that are out of your control on the street to justify needing your car to be able to triple a given speed limit.
So by your argument, it would make sense to have r-compounds on the street in order to pull an extra 1/4 g force on one or two out of the thousands of corners you come across?
Read the example above. A car capable of 1.25g has more capability left in it at 1g than a "regular" car capable of .9g does at .8g's cornering force.
What does this have to do with anything? There are virtually no street driven miatas on street tires that can pull that many g's to begin with, your point is moot
Somehow in my 40 years I have avoided getting arrested. Soon to be 41 years. Maybe you are older than me, maybe not, but the fact remains that I have yet to be arrested behind the wheel... tickets, ya, I've had a few. It's not a big deal and won't stop me from speeding anytime soon.
Physics doesn't take a vacation at the racetrack. You go off in the sand at willow springs and you'll learn that lesson rather well as your car flips over and over. You're not "safer" on a racetrack unless you consider the fact that you have additional safety equipment on or that the meat wagon is close by.
This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever heard on the internet. Congratulations for being oblivious to all factors other than your own driving.
LMAO, I am the noob. Oh, that's really good. I have built cars that have placed nationally in SM2. You might want to consider the fact that I have a lot more experience than you might think. I never said my car was capable of 1.25g's on street tires, on race rubber it probably is. My "street" car has 700 lb springs on the front, 450 lb springs in the back, and a ride height adjustable set of mazdaspeed coilovers.
You definitely don't come across as someone with racing experience. And if your car can't pull 1g on street tires, where the hell did you come up with your "1.25g" number that has nothing to do with anything? And congrats on having stiff springs and coilovers, I'm really happy for you. It also has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Let's recap my original point since it seems to be lost on you.
1. R-compounds on the street are pointless because there is no need to be able to exceed the limits of a good street tire outside of competition. There aren't any places on the street where it is called for to be driving like that. There are too many factors that are out of your control on the street to justify needing your car to be able to triple a given speed limit.
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