Rods!
 

CAT forged H beam con rods, $340/set

Details:
http://www.949racing.com/index.asp?P...PROD&ProdID=73

:bigtu:

These may be the same as the Belfabs, but I'd much rather give money to Emilio.

haha, those look farmiliar. Glad to see them coming from emilio.

:rofl:

thats cheap and ive been looking for rods everywhere for a decent price, are they good quality for the $$ because i know FM rods are very $$

I don't think anyone is buying rods from FM nowadays,considering the choices we have now and the way they are priced at.

does it strike anyone as coincidence that all three brands emerged at EXACTLY the same time?

I've had those bitches in a box for a couple months.

emilio seems to be locking down the market for the hard core track crew.

what brands?

belfab
etd
949

though 949/emilio admitted they were the same source as belfab (cat pep)

They're selling them on eBay too, I posted an LOL thread about it a couple of weeks ago.

Emilio shamelessly admitted these are from the same source as the Belfab rods. When I build my engine, I'll be getting the rods from him.

damnit i wish these were out when I put my motor together ... better yet, if I knew what I know now I would not have even put different rods in. Wave goodbye to $800 that is sitting in the middle of my motor right now.

Someone needs to sell fully assembled built blocks with these and Supertechs for a reasonable price. A big PITA when I built my first Miata was waiting on the machine shop. An assembly line with these already built, boxed and ready to ship would be great.

Frank

I agree.

but its not that cost efficient, shipping would also kill you...
ill be jumping on these for my spare motor build, along with wiescos
but i want to get some headwork done first to get it out of the way
but this is a grea price

shipping isn't that bad. especially if you do a lot of it or know what the cheap methods are.

I once had a motor delivered complete for $50 from LA to SF. Course it was in a friend's truck but still....




btw, Jim Belfabrication mentioned he'd do just what you want Frank. I think the cost was like 2k plus block.

I think the problem would not be shipping (that's the easy part) but getting a constant supply of reasonably priced donor blocks. The only way to get around that is to charge a core.

For just building a block on 1.8s, there should be plenty of donor Miata, Tracer, Escort GT, Protege. There are on a few minor differences on the block I think, like a threaded mount for accessories, an extra freeze plug, and coolant bung.

I'm not sure why anyone would build a 1.6 vs a 1.8 (even though I did way back in the day) given the choice.

Frank

Yeah, I understand that a bp block is just a bp block, don't get me wrong. But I think you underestimate the cost, time and difficulty involved in sourcing low cost donor blocks.

That aside, my father's shop produces extremely high quality engines, mostly for muscle cars, street rods, and the like. So, I could talk to him about the concept. What would be a reasonable price point to come to market with? Assume a basic but correct 1.8 build, ie check crank, CAT rods, weisco overbore pistons, ARP hardware, oil pump, bearings etc.

I'm thinking that to make it wortwhile for the shop, the shortblock would have to be marketable for $3000 give or take. Would there be a market for a ~$3k assembled, forged internals, shortblock? Granted, FM charges $4000 parts/labor + the block.

+1 Ben...im sure there is a good way to go about it
i would think that a core charge is teh best way to go about it other than everyone sending in their own blocks to get built...i wonder what the exact cost with parts included would be...i will be building my other motor up spring/summer next year

Well as a comparison, a 1.8 built shortblock with Weiscos and Carillos, new oil pump and water pump from FM is about $4K. So $3K would be a good starting price.

Finding a good block from a boneyard would be the same work for a machine shop as taking a customers block and doing the prep work on it, so I don't see why that would add to the cost. The machine shop would obviously be dealing with a boneyard for these and have an agreement that the blocks are good.

Sourcing donor blocks is as easy as car-part.com. Once you have 4-5 good ones, you're dealing with customer cores anyway. It's not like a shop will be selling 20 built motors a week. Say 3 a month max. Block supply should be easy.

It would be nice if a shop had 1 or 2 on the shelf ready to ship. Or had the ability to build one in a week.

Frank

yes agreed...there is not a whole lot of turn over there for it to be a real problem...but lets say i want my block, i know i didnt abuse it, blow it up, etc., i know it and feel comfortable with it, what then, i dont want a block i dont know the history on...i guess that could be a difference in opinions

can someone share with me what i can expect $$ wise to get a reputable shop to do the work if a provided my own parts...everything, bore over, balance crank, all neccasary stuff, i never dealt with an engine build before, so dont know anyhting about it
thanks

I'm sorry Frank; I can't fathom your concept being fiscally responsible. There aren't a whole lot of small businesses (and engine builders are small businesses) that can simply shelve built motors. Relating specifically to miata motors, if it were possible, FM would be doing it. The demand obviously isn't there, and there are too many high dollar variables involved.

Thinking REAL WORLD, if a company could produce a built shortblock for $3k out the door, with a 30 day turn around, would you buy it?

i would not...seems steep to me, but again, not experienced in the field, i would go for 2K tops, maybe im cheap...but that sounds high to me too, but its doable if i really wanted it

You might be able to build your own and stay within $2k. You'd just have to watch out for that slope; it's slippery. There's no way any shop could build one for that though. They'd loose money.

hmm, i got a couple 1.8 blocks. one may be seeing it's way to Belfab soon...

really, holly crap, this stuff is $$$ even though you bought everything on your own, and brought to them to do the machineing etc. not sure what else goes in the process which is why i dont see the value yet...

Just 'cause I want it, doesn't mean it's feasible. :) The built motor Miata market simply isn't that big, and FM probably has %90 of the built motor market.

At this point, I could wait 30 days. I've got other cars. On my previous Miata/built motor I couldn't, as I blew the motor and needed the new one. And the major delays cause problems. I'd just like to know that if I'm going to order a motor today, I can make sure I pull the old one on some weekend in the next month and also know that the new built one will be sitting at my door or in my garage when promised. Back when I built my old one though, there were NO off the shelf rods or pistons. I had to send rods to Crower and Pistons to Ross to get one-offs made.

Anyone know what FM's turnaround is? I'm sure they have everything in stock along with a couple bare blocks to build. Just wondering.

Frank

Yeah, exactly. It's just not possible to have off the shelf, discount motors. And anyone who can build a custom motor inside a week is either starving (which is typically for a reason) or is going to charge a huge premium.

Again, if there is real demand for a more moderately priced shortblock with reasonable turn around, I will perform detailed cost and feasibility projections with my father's shop. I won't bore you with their qualifications and pedegrees at this time, so for now, just take my word that they're high end.

So far I'm not seeing the market, but perhaps there's not enough awareness yet.

Just the big items:
Pistons & Rods 800
Machine Shop 500
ARP studs 250
Total: 1550
Then you still have bearings, crank seals, oil pump, water pump, etc, which will easily put you at $2k.

send it to me first.

what bout these looks like a better deal, pistons and rods forged.

http://www.belfabracing.com/product_...oducts_id=1549

I just got a email from them saying they where doing full motors with them finding blocks. Ben if the built motor runs the billet gears i think your 3K price point is pretty good. consider my short block was something like 1400$ with my 700$ weiscos and they took forever to ship the weiscos, and i am still stuck on stock rods for now.

I spoke with my dad about this, and he decided that he could build shortblocks for $2600 + block core of $250. Motors to include Wisco pistons (choice of bore & compression), Cat (949) rods, new oil pump, ARP studs, new bearings, all machining & balancing, etc. 30 day turn around expected. 50% deposit due at inception and balance due at completion. To gauge interest, he will offer the first shortblock at $2500 and no core charge. Also, if there trully is demand, he will stock poplular pistons to shorten turn around to 1-2 weeks. If anyone is interested, PM me.

Ben

I'm not sure if he has a dealer account with wiseco or anything, but race engineering stocks all the miata pistons. I got mine in 3 days.