Serious discussion on the LS1 swap.
09-22-2009, 11:15 AM
#101
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I see you are one of the bullys on the forum. There were always guys like you in the racing circles. Always running there flappers.
I know I am new to this. I will eventually get to telling everyone what my goals are. My appologies for not doing that.
Cut me some slack. This was suppose to be a discussion on pros and cons. It was my opinion. Back off!
I know I am new to this. I will eventually get to telling everyone what my goals are. My appologies for not doing that.
Cut me some slack. This was suppose to be a discussion on pros and cons. It was my opinion. Back off!
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09-22-2009, 11:19 AM
#102
This is not Miata.net, we don't give a **** about "mazda's should have mazda engines" and all that purist bullshit. We care about power and performance.
If putting a submarine engine into a row boat means it will go fast and perform like a monster guess what? We like it.
And by "we" I mean most of the people in here.
Oh and don't get butthurt: you won't last here if you do.
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09-22-2009, 11:20 AM
#103
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I see you are one of the bullys on the forum. There were always guys like you in the racing circles. Always running there flappers.
I know I am new to this. I will eventually get to telling everyone what my goals are. My appologies for not doing that.
Cut me some slack. This was suppose to be a discussion on pros and cons. It was my opinion. Back off!
I know I am new to this. I will eventually get to telling everyone what my goals are. My appologies for not doing that.
Cut me some slack. This was suppose to be a discussion on pros and cons. It was my opinion. Back off!
Yes, we're discussing pros and cons. What you said about it is just a narrow minded old timer opinion. You must hate care like the Elise, Noble, Ultima etc.
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09-22-2009, 11:25 AM
#105
Got news for you guys, I am not going away.
Obviosly, I am in the minority on the subject. If I have to be in the dog house for a while, so be it. I can live with that. My appologies to anyone I have offended (except to those that have acted like idiots).
I am not going to be the guy that goes on the attack. However, I am going to shoot back if someone is an a hole.
Obviosly, I am in the minority on the subject. If I have to be in the dog house for a while, so be it. I can live with that. My appologies to anyone I have offended (except to those that have acted like idiots).
I am not going to be the guy that goes on the attack. However, I am going to shoot back if someone is an a hole.
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09-22-2009, 11:28 AM
#106
Calling something "tacky" just because you don't think it looks good or is not brand loyal when it is clearly a GREAT way of doing something is not a "con". Its just you being a whiney little *****.
This is not Miata.net, we don't give a **** about "mazda's should have mazda engines" and all that purist bullshit. We care about power and performance.
If putting a submarine engine into a row boat means it will go fast and perform like a monster guess what? We like it.
And by "we" I mean most of the people in here.
Oh and don't get butthurt: you won't last here if you do.
This is not Miata.net, we don't give a **** about "mazda's should have mazda engines" and all that purist bullshit. We care about power and performance.
If putting a submarine engine into a row boat means it will go fast and perform like a monster guess what? We like it.
And by "we" I mean most of the people in here.
Oh and don't get butthurt: you won't last here if you do.
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09-22-2009, 11:38 AM
#109
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But they have drive trains from other manufacturers.
and you said
It has always been considered tacky to stuff another motor from a totally different auto maker into a car. We always cringed when we saw a Chevy motor in a Ford or vise versa. A fast Mazda powered Miata will always get more respect from a Chevy powered one. At least in my circle of hot rodding friends.
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09-22-2009, 11:45 AM
#110
I know that.
I can not help but have that feeling about shoe horning a motor from another company. I just do not desire or respect a car quite as much. That does not mean that I hate that car, or that I would not do it, or that it is not cool. Just not as cool as a really well prepared car with a like engine.
I can not help but have that feeling about shoe horning a motor from another company. I just do not desire or respect a car quite as much. That does not mean that I hate that car, or that I would not do it, or that it is not cool. Just not as cool as a really well prepared car with a like engine.
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09-22-2009, 11:51 AM
#111
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It has always been considered tacky to stuff another motor from a totally different auto maker into a car. We always cringed when we saw a Chevy motor in a Ford or vise versa. A fast Mazda powered Miata will always get more respect from a Chevy powered one. At least in my circle of hot rodding friends.
I know that.
I can not help but have that feeling about shoe horning a motor from another company. I just do not desire or respect a car quite as much. That does not mean that I hate that car, or that I would not do it, or that it is not cool. Just not as cool as a really well prepared car with a like engine.
I can not help but have that feeling about shoe horning a motor from another company. I just do not desire or respect a car quite as much. That does not mean that I hate that car, or that I would not do it, or that it is not cool. Just not as cool as a really well prepared car with a like engine.
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09-22-2009, 12:02 PM
#114
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OK can we drop this whole swapped powerplants are cool/not cool discussion and get back to the LS1 swap discussion? 18psi said it, I was about to. We do not care about perception here, just about what it takes to improve on the Miata's weak engine, with turbos being de rigueur.
So one thing to add to the discussion. The whole powerplant in this LS1 I bought is solid mounted. There are some hard (very hard) ~1/2" polymer shims between the mount points and the engine for example; I doubt they do much to dampen vibration. But it is not as bad as I thought it would be. The differential is pretty noisy from 45-55 MPH but I think that is just due to a known 8.8 shimming issue. Other than that, the overall vehicle NVH is not bad at all. After all, I drove it 1/2 way across the country
This is with stock seats. With race buckets the NVH might be increased noticeably. But then again at that point it is a track car so who cares.
CONS:
Keith at FM has mentioned this one and I agree. The LS1 swap, or V8 swap is an all-or-nothing deal. With a turbo, you can upgrade a few things at a time. Start with low boost on a stock motor for example, and keep the stock transmission and diff. Then built motor, then trans, etc. With the V8 swap, you have to buy the entire drivetrain all at once, plus one of the swap kits. That is a big chunk of change.
So one thing to add to the discussion. The whole powerplant in this LS1 I bought is solid mounted. There are some hard (very hard) ~1/2" polymer shims between the mount points and the engine for example; I doubt they do much to dampen vibration. But it is not as bad as I thought it would be. The differential is pretty noisy from 45-55 MPH but I think that is just due to a known 8.8 shimming issue. Other than that, the overall vehicle NVH is not bad at all. After all, I drove it 1/2 way across the country
This is with stock seats. With race buckets the NVH might be increased noticeably. But then again at that point it is a track car so who cares.
CONS:
Keith at FM has mentioned this one and I agree. The LS1 swap, or V8 swap is an all-or-nothing deal. With a turbo, you can upgrade a few things at a time. Start with low boost on a stock motor for example, and keep the stock transmission and diff. Then built motor, then trans, etc. With the V8 swap, you have to buy the entire drivetrain all at once, plus one of the swap kits. That is a big chunk of change.
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09-22-2009, 12:05 PM
#115
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I wouldn't be too sure about that.
In all seriousness, you've stumbled into quite the lion's den here. Attitudes are like ********- we have plenty of both here at MT. And yes, I believe you'll find that a certain healthy prejudice exists against the, shall we say, less tenured among the proletariat. Don't let it rile you too much.
In all seriousness, you've stumbled into quite the lion's den here. Attitudes are like ********- we have plenty of both here at MT. And yes, I believe you'll find that a certain healthy prejudice exists against the, shall we say, less tenured among the proletariat. Don't let it rile you too much.
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09-22-2009, 12:27 PM
#117
One final viewpoint on this that is related to the topic.
This is MiataTURBO.net. You won't find a group more devoted to getting the most available horsepower out of the stock Miata 4 cylinder, and many even build these motors.
Even amongst this crowd we can not argue against the superiority of the Chevrolet LSx V8 swap.
And if you think I'm an ******* I couldn't care less, I tried to provide a relevant counterpoint in your own terms, and was posting what I thought was a polite reply while you posted your tirade right behind me.
The GTFO was mainly for you feeling compelled to continue to voice your opinions while ignoring forum etiquette. I will be a "bully" on that. You still have failed to put your location in your profile, put details of your car in your signature, or post an intro thread. Until then I don't know you from Adam and will assume you're a dipshit 14yr with zero real experience on cars, turbocharging, or racing. Distinguish yourself and your viewpoints might be taken seriously.
Pros:
-More power headroom
-Greater dependability (in standard form)
-Less complexity
Cons:
-V8 burble giveaway
-1yr All-at-once install that costs half a year's paychecks before even putting first part on
-No longer an underdog, but a freak of nature expected to wrinkle pavement and move mountains
EDIT:
Miata2fast....The thread title is: SERIOUS discussion on LS1 swap...
This is MiataTURBO.net. You won't find a group more devoted to getting the most available horsepower out of the stock Miata 4 cylinder, and many even build these motors.
Even amongst this crowd we can not argue against the superiority of the Chevrolet LSx V8 swap.
And if you think I'm an ******* I couldn't care less, I tried to provide a relevant counterpoint in your own terms, and was posting what I thought was a polite reply while you posted your tirade right behind me.
The GTFO was mainly for you feeling compelled to continue to voice your opinions while ignoring forum etiquette. I will be a "bully" on that. You still have failed to put your location in your profile, put details of your car in your signature, or post an intro thread. Until then I don't know you from Adam and will assume you're a dipshit 14yr with zero real experience on cars, turbocharging, or racing. Distinguish yourself and your viewpoints might be taken seriously.
Pros:
-More power headroom
-Greater dependability (in standard form)
-Less complexity
Cons:
-V8 burble giveaway
-1yr All-at-once install that costs half a year's paychecks before even putting first part on
-No longer an underdog, but a freak of nature expected to wrinkle pavement and move mountains
EDIT:
Miata2fast....The thread title is: SERIOUS discussion on LS1 swap...
Last edited by gospeed81; 09-22-2009 at 12:38 PM.
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09-22-2009, 12:51 PM
#118
A few of the things that I like about the LSx swap is the ability to pass emissions, ecu is easily programmable with plenty of tuners available and the upgrade options for more power are huge.
A few things that I don't like is that I started my turbo build before I looked into the swap option, the price for a fully built LSx is very high and I would rather drop one into an RX7 instead of a Miata. Actually these are more likely excuses that I am telling myself so I don't try this in my current Miata.
A few things that I don't like is that I started my turbo build before I looked into the swap option, the price for a fully built LSx is very high and I would rather drop one into an RX7 instead of a Miata. Actually these are more likely excuses that I am telling myself so I don't try this in my current Miata.
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09-22-2009, 12:57 PM
#119
A few of the things that I like about the LSx swap is the ability to pass emissions, ecu is easily programmable with plenty of tuners available and the upgrade options for more power are huge.
A few things that I don't like is that I started my turbo build before I looked into the swap option, the price for a fully built LSx is very high and I would rather drop one into an RX7 instead of a Miata. Actually these are more likely excuses that I am telling myself so I don't try this in my current Miata.
A few things that I don't like is that I started my turbo build before I looked into the swap option, the price for a fully built LSx is very high and I would rather drop one into an RX7 instead of a Miata. Actually these are more likely excuses that I am telling myself so I don't try this in my current Miata.
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