So she seems...faster without the AC/PS
 

I took out the AC/PS today...I just fucking cut the hardlines and looped them...thats what it look liked FM did...:o...

The car feels much more responsive top end...I'm thinking one of the pulleys might have been sticking or something because it revs much more freely...

PS isn't near as bad as I thought...the car will lock the front tires up though now..? wtf?! used not to do that.

Anybody else feel the gain or is it just a placebo effect?

It's a placebo. BEGI did a dyno test with and without PS/AC and saw no power gains. Now the weight reduction might make you think it's faster but the "parasitic" drag caused by the pulleys pumps and compressors isn't power robbing atleast not enough for their dyno.

thought so...close to 80lbs worth of shit out of the car today total...might account for something.

could the pully actually have been sticking or belt slipping causing it to not feel right?

or maybe it just cold as balls and the engine really liked it...who knows.

Not sure, i think 100lbs of added lightness can generally be converted to .1 second added to your 1/4 miles time. Someone told me that and if it is the case then it would make sense for it to feel more nimble on the road.
As for the pully sticking I don't know, if the belt was slipping it would only affect the effectiveness of the pump/compressor. Or i'm wrong.

makes sense. I'd be more inclined to believe you than my cold ass happy that it was running...lol

Either way, non-ps is the shit.

How does it feel not having the PS assist? I'd like to take my PS crap out and loop the lines, I just don't want to take it out and end up putting it back in.
I drove it without the belt for a while and that sucked dick. I figure if it was half as much pressure as just removing the pump i could handle it.

its a little easier than just removing the belt...

I think I'm going to do it the way FM depowers and that might make it even smoother.

Its hard at full stop, once moving even a TINY bit it gets MUCH easier.

At speed it just seems to respond and be much crisper than it was before...more connected?

The weight makes a difference. It might be placebo, but I definitely noticed the weight when I ditched my PS and AC.

Do it. I took the belt off too and it sucked ass, but I bit the bullet and de-powered the rack and I LOVE it. The kickback and the INTENSE low-speed effort is GONE when you loop the lines and ditch the pump. I'd say the highway kickback MIGHT be 25% of what it was with the pump in there, and you get used to it fast. The steering feel is great.

Well there you go. I might just do it then. Gonna do the roommates '90 and see how I like it first though :)

I looped the lines (as if you couldnt tell from my pics tonight) and with the pump off and fluid drained and replaced with a light motor oil, it feels pretty good. No problems once im moving a little bit, but at a stop its a pain to turn the tires. Also i dont know what effect the motor oil will have on the rack, so i dont recommend it.

I can feel the engine being weaker when i turn my A/C on, so there must be significant drag when you turn A/C on.

Running with the A/C on would cause enough drag on the motor to maybe feel it, but that's what boost and windows are for.

general rule of thumb

100lb = 10hp = .1 second in the 1/4th

hmmm,

by just looping the lines I SHOULD feel some notchiness, not exactly that but I'm out of other words lol.

The wheel pushes now when the front tires reach their limit and start to skid...the feedback is AMAZING compared to PS...its a bitch at stop, but I'm getting used to rolling then moving forward..I really like it.

I think its a placebo but I totally felt a difference when I dropped the ac, and the ps seems to have made everything feel more connected. every bit of weight on these cars is so important...

I thought it was bs when everyone was saying the feeling this and the blah blah m.net chatter. but I totally know what they are talking about now. it really feels different, and the only word I have for it is connected.

Though I did have to get a bigger steering wheel. my 300mm was busting up my bad shoulder, the 350mm seems much easier on the ol' bones.

you get used to it after a while... then you jump in the sig. other's car and think "damn this thing is loose"

I took mine off and liked it. I could definetly tell the difference between just taking the belt off and looping the lines. but it was harder to tell the difference between looping and taking the seal out as FM describes. I've also got 225 wide tires to turn, which doesn't make it any easier

^ thats what I was wondering, when I get bigger tires is it going to be a bitch.

I came back to school and took it for a mountain run...with out PS this thing is like a such a beautiful handling car...I can feel the road...it tells me when it doesn't want to grip...I dunno, I thought stock was great, this is amazing.

mmmm....

Electric PS pump? Shut off for AutoX and turn on for city driving???

issues with the larger tires:

1. you can't lower it as much. with a 40 offset, 225 tires come out to the fender in the back, with FCM shock mounts, .66" shock spacers, and new generation FM springs, it still rubs on heavy jars.

2. with a depowered rack (FM style, with no internal seal) its real hard to turn when stopped. I could still kinda use one hand to turn it with the stock wheels and tires, but not really at all now. once you're rolling its real easy again though.

I took out my AC & PS over a week ago and have to say it feels WAY better than it did before.
I went the FM route with the rack instead of just looping the lines.
I only ever used the AC perhaps twice in the 3 or 4 years I had the car so it was no loss.

The car is way more stable at higher speeds, defo more feedback from the wheels and you know exactly where the car is at all times.

Would I put back in the PS ?
No F'n way !
If I bought another Miata would I take out the PS again ?
I'd do it before I'd give it it's first wash & wax - D E F O !!

I'm going to do the FM way next time I actually have time...

It doesn't take that long to complete the FM mod, you could have it done in a couple of hours.
Just make sure you have big ass spanners that will fit the huge nuts on the rack handy !
Mark the tie rods before taking them off.
It's a really simple job once you get into it.

I might do it the same time I do my tie rods...as they need to be done...

Thats good to know...did you notice any difference?

I think everyone who takes out the PS notices the difference - the car IS better !

I've never had a problem with the power steering, I like it. I've got a smallish steering wheel (320mm) that makes the steering feel quite a bit heavier. Which is a good thing.

I have no ABS/PS/AC and I love it.. aside from the added weight the steering feels like its on rails. Braineack and I drove each others cars to compare and the handling is definitely solid.

Definitely, but did you notice a difference between FM way and just looping the lines..

Anybody?

Yes you fell feel the difference in "power" with the ps and ac removed because there 2 less hunks of metal that need to be spun up and down every time you accelerate or decelerate. Kinda the same effect a lightened flywheel has. Less rotating mass. It doesn't equal more power on the dyno but I bet if you overlaid the 2 runs on top of each other the car without the ps and ac would rise in hp sooner then the car with ps and ac but the peak hp output of the engine is indeed unchanged.

that def makes sense.