Stock 1.6L + EFR 6258 = bad idea?
 

Considering upgrading my setup to something like that. Most likely a ARtech ramhorn manifold/hot parts + EFR 6258. Goal would be around 250-260 on stock motor, if it blows rebuild it forged and push more boost?


Is it a terrible idea overall? Everyone says to just get a 1.8L but changing the motor frightens me and finding one locally would be a PITA.


Opinions?




Thanks all!

you're willing to shell out like 1200 or whatever it is on an EFR yet you're afraid to upgrade to 1.8? lol
no replacement for displacement.

The EFR is closer to $1600 I believe, if you can find it in stock.

I say go with the 1.8 swap. Honestly I think that building a 1.6 motor is a waste. The parts for a 1.8 are the same cost and you will end up with more displacement which will always help. You also have a much wider variety on the choice of heads you could use.

1.8 swap plus my setup and you will be set for life.

But I think the efr would work fine on a 1.6 as well. You just have to consider when you do eventually step up to a 1.8, selling your 1.6 stuff is a little more difficult.

Actually doing the motor swap is what scares me, never done anything like it. Plus I don't have a full garage I can park it in. I've taken the turbo/manifold and all out and it wasn't too bad. Where can I source a 1.8L anyways? I know I could buy a built one from Savington for like $4k... don't think I can get wife approval for that though. :(

1.6 4 lyfe

Read this https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...light=efr+6258

Stock 1.8, tiny intercooler, the WORST log manifold I have ever seen and a Link = 270whp @ 12psi

yeah I've read that thread roughly a couple times...

Then what is it is exactly that you are asking? ARtech parts w/ EFR = stock motor blowing power at low boost.

Also, I have to agree with sir Vlad and sir Virgil, 1.8 swaps are easy. I would never do it though :giggle:

What's a 1.8 cost and what's it worth? 10hp N/A? Is the difference more when boosted?

I guess mainly has better aftermarket support, quicker boost, better flowing heads :dunno:

Honestly pulling a motor is not that hard. You could easily do it in a weekend if you have help. Hell with help and a good idea of what you are doing, you can do it in a day.

Agreed. I pulled my rear diff, trans, and engine by myself never having pulled the engine before in less than 10 hours. You got this.

they perform significantly better in boost and have better available upgrades (e.g., IMs, heads)

I refuse to build my 1.6L because I consider it a waste; they require so much more boost for what I consider poor results.

for example, I've seen a built 1.6L with .040" over pistons running a 2871 and custom IM pushing 17psi make just around 270rwhp. Meanwhile, I've seen a stock 97 motor with a BEGi IM and 2560 make 275rwhp with only 14-12psi and had a significantly better torque curve and area under curve.

Cubic inches are like dicks, tits, and stacks of cash. Bigger is better.

It sounds like deep down you want to upgrade to a 1.8, and just want us to talk you into it. Just do it and never look back.

Looking into somewhat local part cars... Now just need to get home frmo my deployment and buy one. Money is the easy part, talking the wife into it and storing it somewhere; THAT'S the hard part. LOL

I also wouldn't ever put a $1600 turbo on a 1.6L.

:dunno:



Ok as expected I have been convinced to do a 1.8 swap. My question is how hard would it be to go from my 1.6T to a 1.8 NA as far as changing my tuning? I haven't messed with the MS much :o

since you are not using the stock ecu, I would think the 1.8 conversion should be cake. Just do the reroute and get setup for an oil cooler while the motor i out.

I don't know about the tuning for the MS.

Damnit Brainy, you just talked me out of rebuilding my 1.6.

Damn youuuuu! :giggle:

lol. I mean, I'm also just content with 240rwtq/ 240rwhp.

This is perhaps a slight threadjack (Sorry OP, but you have a 1.6 too!), but would you say the limit of the 1.6's stock rods is 250rwtq or 225 rwtq? I've heard two different figures on it, Brainy. From this site, even!

Do yourself a favor, pull the engine. Then take the time to clean up the factory wiring in the front of the car, cut a big hole for "new" wires to the turbo parts, drill the oil drain further back towards the trans, cover the under-side of the car in DEI tunnel matt, and plan this out. Learn from what I say, those compromises that "would just take too long" will haunt you. It was nice to pull the head off this winter and clean-up all those little things and I feel a lot safer in the car now with more reliability and more safety.

:laugh:
yes, because 25wtq difference between two completely arbitrary figures will "break the camels back"

:squint: I'd assume figures in the 10%+ range are potentially make-or-break 18psi.

F it, how much money would be waste buying a built long block from TSE/Renown or the like. Looking around $4000 shipped including core charge.

http://trackspeedengineering.com/sto...8ac9c1fc81683d

Renown:
http://www.renown-performance.com/re...s/g-64614.aspx

10% range of what? a made up number?
some blow up at 200 and some at 300. the 250 number is just something we pulled out of our asses. Not saying that's not the "ballpark" but you can't derive specifics from guesstimates.

Much <3 18psi. Thanks.

I know this hence why I posted their names :) :makeout:


Question is how much does it typically run to get the motor and source the parts myself and have work done somewhere?

A ton. It's a god damn miata. Get a 10mm and 12mm and take the motor out yourself. Don't be a bitch.

Both cost of motor and work are dependant on your geographical location. As an example, I am extremely lucky to be able to source an early high-mileage 1.8 for $650-$800, whereas I've heard other people on here talk about sourcing low mileage 02-05 VVT's for $700 easily (Those are $1.2k+ where I am typically). Work is equally dependant, as it depends on shop's labor rate + labor put in.

Even arguments about warranty come down to what you have access to and local policies vs. vendor policies, so it's something you'll have to put the time into finding this out for yourself.

:rofl::rofl::fawk:



I can do the swap but I'm talking about motor work.

Yeah and as I am in the middle of frigging nowhere in a hick town I don't think i'd trust any motor shop within a couple hours of me :rofl:




I can pay these vendors $700 for a core charge and have them build it right, to my door. :dunno:

Yep. Freight costs $200-$300 last I checked with an engine builder.

Considering the time it saves you (Which is significant), and how much you get, a crate engine from a forum sponsor builder is a lot better of a proposition than it sounds initially. I'm seriously considering going with a TSE longblock rather than farking with it at this point.

I would go with Trackspeed in a heartbeat. It would be difficult to get the parts and work that they do from anywhere else for cheaper. And when they build you an engine you know it is built right.

You'll love this. I just scored a VVT engine for $450, I paid $700 for a wrecked 99 swap car, and I paid $1700 for machine work on the 99 engine for my track car, $300 in labor on a valve job recently.

After 100-hours on the track driving in extreme anger, it really makes sense to build a forged bottom end and worth SS valves if its a track car. This way you can set it and forget it...at 300whp. Also, do a VVT swap, it's worth it.

are you shittin' me?

I'd say 225-250rwtq is a good ballpark figure, for ALL model years.

I'm not smart enough to know how much clyinder pressures and RPMs come into play, like winding a lack-luster rotrex up to 300rwhp on a stock 1.6L could peak out at a mere 200rwtq.

.......$450 for a VVT? I'm green with envy. How the hell did you manage that?

So I am putting a deposit down on this motor today...

1.8L 99head
-99 Intake manifold
-M Tuned H beam Rods
-Supertech 84mm 9:1 pistons
-Boundry engineering oil pump gear
-Less than 2000 mile since built and compression numbers are within 2% of each other.
-ARP main and head studs
-new bosch water pump
-gates timing belt kit
-all oil seals replaced



Approve/Disapprove?

:noes:

Yes buy buy buy approve. Who you buying it from?

Now that is a motor you put the EFR on.

Buying it from Rharris19....

:D


Now to break the news to the wife. FML :(

I guess once I get it I shall start a build thread! I don't go home from deployment for a few more weeks :noes:

Great to hear you pulled the trigger on the upgrade. You will love it.

I love how i just give my opinion and now he has a beast of a motor.