dude....you picked the perfect platform to build a race car out of:

1. Responsive
2. Dependable
3. Easy to mod
4. Cheap to replace

AND you made it as dependable as possible. Now you are just trying to eliminate statistics...which will never happen.

Enjoy it and don't worry...or it'll just hurt worse when something does happen.

,
Thanks, this is what I needed to hear...I guess it can be done. I had such a bad experience with VW and audi that I'm paranoid for good reason.

Oh shit, I have real paranoia. I just kind of decided last night that I should not expect my car to make it home from TWS and stayed home.

=no refund of the $350 track day around the NE. A brothuh's too poor for that shit.

Your baller built and v-banded shit big time :ne: VW/Audi. I've had 4 A1's, the fundamental design didn't change much for a long time, and is probably close to what you were running in a corrado. The miata is a much better fundamental design, and the execution is in another league, especially the way you've built it. Enjoy fuck out of it. Run low boost, it's all you can really do to save the wear and tear. Your times will come down when you feel that you can DRIVE it, which you can, imho.

Werd. I was about to respond with the same info more or less.

To answer the question about why the transmission and differential get hot, it is due to the inherent inefficiency in any mechanical system. The transmission and diff have mechanical friction, among other things, that rob power, which is manifested in the form of heat.

In fact, the typical rules of thumb are that powertrain losses are between 10-20% from the flywheel to the tires. Most of that is being lost as heat in the trans and diff. That is why they get hot. So say a Turbo 1.8 engine has 250 BHP, and there is 15% drivetrain loss. That means the trans and diff are creating somewhere around 28 KW of heat. To put it in perspective, that is like 28 hairdryers, or 280 lightbulbs (@ 100W each). No wonder they get hot.

As far as the need for cooling, I cannot answer that. However based on what I am reading on Ford IRS differentials, even the aluminum housing one like I have in the LS1 Miata, diff coolers are almost a given at the track for long sessions. The easy way to go seems to be with the electric pump based DYI setup. I have seen some stupid high prices on turn-key mechanical-pump-based kits, like several thousand dollars.

The only way to know for sure is to install an oil temp gauge in the trans and diff, and hit the track. Easy to do with $100 and some elbow grease. I am thinking about it myself.


On the other discussion... Get a daily driver, and a car trailer. Once you start doing track days/racing, a dedicated vehicle and a way to haul it is pretty much the way to go for all the reasons mentioned. In the mean time, get an AAA card, seriously.

You can add to that a whole lot of other guys here. Sure people break stuff and have been stranded but what percentage is that out of total users and total track time?

Tracking late model VW's and Audi's would make anyone paranoid. That crap breaks when modded and pushed hard. Of course my wife just bought an 09 TT coupe! Wait. Is that paranoia tapping on my shoulder?

+1, dude you need therapy. I just ran my car at Spa today for hours. Needs fuel a few times a day, that is it. Oh, and brake pads :) I seem to vaporize XP12s in two half day events, of which one was wet.

Download tech.pdf from Emilio with your pre-track-day checks and live by it. Add your own stuff.

During the winter I have some larger overhauls planned, like the torsen swap, brake cooling, and will fix anything broken.

I'm also looking for a pad that lasts longer than XP12's, but I doubt i'll find it at this level. Maybe DTC-60's.

I annihilated my pads with my stock calipers in 3 laps at thunder hill! and almost hit a nice porsche thats when I got the big brake kit, love it pads last about 4-6 track days depending on the track. they are much beefyer than the stockers.

Yeah. It makes me laugh when people recommend pads that are rotor friendly. With most guys here running $25 napa rotors, with pads at $140 who cares if they are rotor friendly. I'd rather wear out rotors every couple of track days and have pads last all year than the other way around. Only if you are running high end rotors could I understand the desire to save them.

I've heard lots of good duralility statements about Porterfields but haven't run them. I've been OK on Carbotechs and the track I've been running at lately isn't that hard on brakes.

I'm trying old-school Hawk blue on the front until I get my BBK, going to run DTC-30 in the rear. I'd like to run the xp12's again if I can get more than 2-days on them. However, with the quick-change awesomeness, I'll run a racepad up front and swap for streeters when I put the street rubber back on.

As for reliability, I guess I'll just drive this fucker until it blows-up, then leave it, and start over when I get home. I've put so much heart into it, what else can I do? I guess I can either put AC back in and make it a daily and always wish I were man enough to track it, or love and lose.

No, it's the partsman from the dealership, needing you to pay your bill for that DSG electro-hydraulic thingymabob.


As a driver with an A1 VW (that is presently down), I feel the OP's pain. As a result, I have yet to take this pickup out to the SCCA to show that it can indeed really handle, mostly because it has not always been as reliable as my GTI. When I get the GTI up and running, I will take it out for sure, everything on it is new! But when I get the Miata running, I will take it easy. It has sat for nearly 4 years, no telling what will rattle loose. Small steps, that is my suggestion. Drive the car with mechanical sympathy, and push a little at a time. That's all you would do to a GF/Wife, if you -really- loved her, right? :D

G/L

Let's see. The VW A1 isn't running and isn't as reliable as the GTI that ALSO isn't running. Hmmm. I'm sensing a theme here...:laugh:


That DSG thingymabobber is pretty friggin amazing. I'm hoping it holds together. At least we have 4 years and 50K miles before she'll need to sell it.

Indeed. The GTI is being rebuilt, and the pickup is being rebuilt... One fucking part at a time... :fawk:

I think this is a little flipped around.

If you can't afford to wad the car up and walk away from it, you shouldn't take it on the track.

A Miata without a turbo is a reliable, easy track car. Brakes, fluid, rollbar and you're there.

A Miata with a turbo is a moneypit for the track. A Miata with a turbo with a poor owner is something you should be afraid to take to the track.

I've been in a car that hit the wall. If you can't throw the car away and walk away... use a different car. Drive the turbo car everywhere and put your NA car on the track.

Less fun? Maybe. It will give you peace of mind, a more full wallet and make you a better driver though.

Look at all the shiney things you put on the car. Imagine them all crumpled up. A rollover will starve an engine and lock it up. A front crash will kill your suspension, radiator, maybe your turbo, manifold... could go on. Just look at all the time and money you put into the car and imagine having to walk away from it crushed and crumpled.

Cheap track car is a good idea.

Not to go off topic too much, but how is this true?

You know what hustlers problem is? He just got of the sauce and his testosterone is super low so he's a little bitch now. All he does is ethug everyone cause deep down inside he's a vagina and the Internet is te only way he can pretend he's a man

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I am liking the power-steering pump idea, which seemed frivolous at the time.

One option would be to mount it in the stock location, if you have the space, and runs lines back to the trans. It won't be creating much load on the engine as it won't be pumping against a restriction.

Another, and I'm totally serious, would be to mount a driving pulley for it on either the propshaft or the axles. On the propshaft could be done by sliding it over from the transmission side, and securing it with the four bolts that hold the shaft to the diff. On the axles would be similar, assuming you have two-piece axles. This is actually how a lot of big-money guys (like NASCAR) do it.

Or this: Pegasus - Oil/Water Cooler Pump, 12volt 2 gpm

The ghetto part, or the destroy trans part? The trans relies on the input shaft spinning for some of it's oiling. The input shaft will not spin/not spin at a reasonable speed if the car is coasting along in neutral. Is this a wive's tale? Are you willing to find out? Plus, most dollies aren't low enough to tow a lowered miata well. And the rear will probably drag. I have a good sized dolly and a deck over axle 24' trailer at my immediate disposal, and a 09 Silverado. I drive my miata to the track for a reason.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but he's not even doing much ethugging lately. It's like we've all lost a family member.

A long time ago I was looking underneath a NASCAR in a parking lot at a promo thing and it had a driveshaft driven diff pump. I was wondering what it was when the crew chief explained it to me and why it was needed. Ahhhhh, OK, cool. NACA ducts in the side windows (behind the driver) fed air to the heat exchanger.

The PS pump is an interesting idea. That could work better for the trans, especially for a T-5 or a T-56, since they use ATF for lubricant. The heat exchanger could easily be mounted in the nose.

But I still like the electric pump idea. Plus it could be controlled with a simple on-off temperature switch (like a radiator fan) and would only pump when it is needed. And, it is easier to install. Plus there are no concerns about drive belt alignment, tensioning, wear, etc.

Oh, and one more... the solution to having a complex turbo car that's expensive is not to get a more expensive, more expensive to maintain turbo car.

Trying to put out the flames by pouring gas on them...

How long are your stints? Normally for me would be ~20 min on track, 10-20 in paddock, 20 on track etc. With cooldown lap in between. Do you really need the bulletproofness of a nascar?

Okay, back the car onto the dolly instead. What issues other than height would you have?

Transmission failure is common when towing, any class A truck has to have the drive line removed before they are towed for this very reason, and that is common knowledge for a truck driver. However some cars are engineered to be towed on a dolly or flat towed, This is why you always see the same types of cars behind RVs because they know that most of the cars miles will be in tow so they get a car that was manufactured to be towed all the time. I dont know about the miata but I wouldnt risk it.

Screw towing, screw the dolly, screw fear.

Step 1. Drive to the track.

Step 2. Drive on the track.

Step 3. Embarass all the douchers running 100K cars.

Step 4. Get the phone numbers of the douchers wives & girlfriends.

Step 5. Drive home.

Step 6. Start making booty calls.

Built motor? check. 6 spd tranny? check. Good tune? check. Proper suspension? check. Solid brakes? check. The car is good to go. It's likely as reliable on the track as anything else you could run short of an NA Miata.

It's all paranoia and fear. Take your guns, drive to some rock quarry where you can shoot, drink a couple Hamms pounders and shoot the hell out of the guns. You need to get the testosterone levels up and stop paying attention to that little vagina in your head.

+1

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show?

I will measure the height of my dolly on Monday when I go back to the shop, and you can put blocks under your rear wheels to replicate the height, and see where that puts you. I spent good bucks on that dolly to tow our fleet trucks (mostly 1/2 tons) when they break down in the field doing service work. My guys won't even tow with it anymore, especially since they've been dragging them backwards. Hard to get the steering to lock dead straight, and not being straight makes it even funkier to tow. They made me buy them a big Warn so that they could yank the trucks onto the big highboy. They would rather tow with that than the dolly, even though the trailer is huge and heavy, and has a very high cg when there is a truck on it. Save your bux for a real small trailer, even one with just two ramps supporting the wheels instead of a full deck.

I've always wondered about this myself, so I did some research. And you're quite right.

Here is the Miata transmission:

http://img01.imagefra.me/img/img01/2...6m_701b1fc.gif

The input shaft and mainshaft (at the top) meet between items 1 and 2. When in "fourth gear" (which is actually not a gear at all) the input and output shafts are locked together via the synchro mechanism which is between the main drive gear (1) and 3'rd gear (2).

The main drive gear (1) is locked to the input shaft. The gears on the countershaft (at the bottom) are all locked to the countershaft. The gears on the mainshaft all freewheel unless their particular syncho is engaged, at which point that particular gear is locked to the mainshaft.

If the vehicle is in neutral, and the engine is running with the clutch engaged, then the input shaft is spinning, which causes the countershaft and all of its gear to spin, which cause all of the gears on the mainshaft to freewheel around it.

If the vehicle is in neutral, the engine is off, and the car is moving, then the mainshaft is spinning, however the input shaft is stationary, so the countershaft is stationary, and thus all of the gears are stationary. So the mainshaft is freewheeling inside of its gears.

Trouble is, it looks to me as though the mainshaft is above the oil level. When the front end of the car is up in the air, then the forward half of the mainshaft is almost certainly above the oil level.

Normally, the countershaft (whose gears are at least partially submerged in oil) will always be flinging oil up onto the input shaft and mainshaft so long as the input shaft is turning.

When you're being towed in neutral however, with the mainshaft spinning freely inside the mainshaft gears, the bearings between the mainshaft the gears will be operating with no lubrication.

I can see that being a potential problem.

Doesn't really matter how thick the tranny oil is, as the pump isn't going to be working against much of a restriction. It's not trying to force the oil through a tiny orifice, just flow it through some hoses and tubes. Probably a good idea to see just how much volume the thing actually moves when turning at speed (a couple of hoses and tubes might turn out to be a tiny orifice, relatively speaking) but I'd bet that it's pretty minimal.


If it turns out that a P/S pump does not flow too much oil when turning at engine speed, I like it from a simple (Mazda already figured out how to mount it for you), cheap (free) & reliable (who ever heard of a P/S pump failing) standpoint. Leave it mounted to the engine where it normally lives. No fuss, no muss.

I swear to fuck that I will not write another post in this thread, but I got one last question to ask you, Hustler. I see you have countless posts in engine performance and diy turbo, but I swear that I don't see you blathering much in suspension. Is your setup good? Please tell me you have your cross weights within 5-10#. Please tell me you've worked with your alignment.

If we can't keep up with spec miatas on track, there are really only two reasons: 1. we are not committed to our driving 2. our setup is not on par with what they have.

There is no reason why we can't have a better setup as them, since we don't have the restrictive rules package they have. We can get more camber if needed with offset delrin bushings. We can reduce unsprung weight with tubular control arms or lighter wheels. We can introduce more grip with a wider wheel and tire package.

My first track day with this car, I was eaten alive at lime rock by a pair of club rental SMs. I had rs-2s, and cross out over 100#. I have since optimized my package without installing parts by getting a good baseline alignment, getting cross to within 2#, and getting rid of the rear bar. I also installed NT-01s. At my last track day at Monticello long, I was a lot more comfortable and I think faster. There were no SMs around me, so I don't know how I would have fared. But I was hanging with a reasonably driven FC with an LS3, and got the point by from a couple of 911s on a sunday drive. Point is, setup is everything, especially with if you are at power levels above the average SM level, which we all know is low by the rules package they have. Even running off the 'gate, my car has at least 50whp on a decent SM.

This is all assuming you care about speed. If you are not committed to your driving, or can't commit because this is your baby, you may as well twist the boost down, turn the tune down, and 100% assure that you won't have any mechanicals. Even then, you will still have the opportunity to make lap times if you have a great suspension setup.

Good luck, man. Your car is the shit, it needs to be driven. And you are too much fun to have around than to have you desert us for the Evo board.

Then concentrate on wimmen an' wiskey for 6-months before you put the car on the track. Spend the time building an emergency fund for WHEN not if something goes awry.

After you have your safety net, sign up, show up, turn the key and friggin' race the damn thing. - If you are worrying about every potential mishap and remote failure, not only are your lap times giong to suffer but you will also be a risk to the other drivers on the course.

Otherwise, freeze it in carbonite and preserve it for eternity...

- L

Well I should clarify. Though this is mt.n I must confess I was thinking in terms of the LS1 track car which does not have a PS pump in it. For me it would be easier to just use electric pumps rather than buy and adapt a PS pump.

In a car with a stock block and a manual (or depowered) steering rack that approach could work though, especially since everything is there. Neat idea actually. I wonder if the stock PS pump is self-priming since it is probably above the trans fill level.

Also to clarify further, I do not want anyone to imply from the cooler discussion that I think the Miata NEEDS a trans and/or a diff cooler. There is some general evidence that it may, even for just a 20 minute session. But, like I said, the only way to know for sure is to install an oil temp gauge and hit the track.

Car was flawless all day, and incredibly fast. It ran with American Iron/CMC cars all day. Only one street car was faster and it was a c6z driven by a seasoned vet.

Of course it does! It's something unique and needlessly complex, which likely adds little to no value, which we can package and sell to CR.net users and people who install ITBs on otherwise unmodified engines!


This original idea on how to part fools from their money is © 2009 Joseph Perez, all rights reserved.

Old saying in racing.. To make a million dollars racing...


START with TEN Million...

You gotta pay to play! When I drag raced my Miata Pro-Street it would cost me thousands a weekend and I had a truck and trailer to tow the car around.

Blowing up stuff was part of the game...

I plan on build a little track toy (Looking for a good shape NA now), but I doubt I will go over 220hp and I plan to make it so I can tow the Miata behind my Subaru WRX using a tow bar and removing the front bumper.

I know how you feel.. I was there about 10 years ago when I was racing Pro.

On the subject of vehicles that are cheap to buy, cheap to run, and more fun than a barrel of monkeys on crack, a serious question from someone who doesn't know much about trackdays, HDPEs, etc:

Let's say that one were to take a Formula Vee car, add a cooling system and a turbo, and install brakes and tires that don't suck. Would such a vehicle generally be permitted to run with the big boys? Would a class exist into which it could fit at events that have such things as classes? What practical limitations might accompany such an endeavor, apart from the ever-present danger of being run over by an Austin-Healey Sprite?

Well duh! Of course the car was flawless. The only problem is the estrogen between your ears.

Good to hear you quieted your inner bitch and got back to raping and spitting. Wasn't nearly as fun with the Wendy Whiner version of Huster here.

This:

Attachment 203290

Bring extra shit to the track, parts, fluids ect. I have seen some bring extra trannys/motors ect to the track. Yesterday i got my new motor idling in the paddock for the first time ever. It had started prior twice, once to see if it ran and a second time to get it into the trailer. Broke it in on track. I think you should invest your 18k in a truck and trailer and spare parts.

Or just build that super beast/caged NA car you were talking about a while ago. I think your worried about loosing such a nice looking car. I have a hard time with that too, but i just look at it like its going to happen. Shit will/does break and will need to be replaced. Shit my car was sitting for 6 months and i had to look at it everyday till this weekend. Its all fun from here.

I skimmed a bit so I hope I'm not repeating what someone already said, but you CANNOT tow a miata on a dolly with the the rear wheels up. The weight of the engine acts like a pendulum and will sway like crazy back and forth at anything over 40-45mph. I know this, as I had to tow mine like this on a dolly after I blew the 1.6 diff up at the track. A 911, maybe, but not a Miata.

I then towed it with the front wheels on the dolly 2.5 hours in 85* weather, raced in 105* weather for 3 hours (3 hours of track time) and dollyed it home in 105* weather just fine. All in a 1988 V6 Chevy 1500, AC on the way there, broken by the time I left :crx:

Silly rabbit. Dollies don't kill transmissions, turbos do.:)

I've towed rwd vehicles (including my rx7) on my dolly for thousands of miles without incident. And I realize they aren't all engineered equally.

Yep.
A trailer is preferred. A trailer is more expensive. A trailer takes much more space to store when not being used. You can back up a trailer and not a loaded dolly. A dolly is better than pulling a broken car home with a strap. A dolly is cheaper than a tow truck after just a couple of uses.

I would rather have a trailer, but somebody was complaining about money at the beginning of this thread before he started talking about dropping 20k like it was a Kleenex. I was searching for a serious answer to a problem with certain parameters. I later realized that the problem doesn't really exist. Someone is just being neurotic...again. No worries.

All your trailerz are belong to us.
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/att...02008-004-.jpg

Save up for a light trailer. Makes all the difference at a track day, knowing you can bring extra stuff and knowing that you can drive home, whatever you break, unless you wreck the car and need a flat bed. You don't need a Peterbuilt to tow a Miata. Any car that can pull 3000lbs is good enough.

What are you using to pull 3000lbs in that pic? I don't recognize it. I'm towing a little over 2500 in my 1500rated subie and it's a little unnerving.

2007 Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 5cyl diesel w/automatic 6spd. Produces 200bhp and 400Nm. Weighs over 4000lbs on its own. Combo drives like a freight train.

http://www.alfaromeo-duebendorf.ch/a...59schwarz1.jpg

That thing is dope spookyfish

I'm leaving this car at 11psi for a while, safety wiring everything, and then...what is there to break? The trans should be fine, the rear end will be fine when I get a real diff in there, motor should be fine for a long time especially on low comp. There is a lot of car at 11psi...it should be fun for years.

Famous last words.

true the only way to find out is to break it


is this a real thread ?, i cant believe what i just read.

This is the only way to roll to the track. [IMG]http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/o...x/IMG_0197.jpg[/IMG]

Oh my....oh my my my.......

The mani & dp ;)

If your worried about breaking the tranny, get a T56 and a cts rear or a ford 7.5 rear, the tranny would need some adapting but could be done. Then you would not have to worry, It would add some weight but so does a turbo.

Or get a T-5, they are lighter, cheaper, and strong enough.
Or buy my 6-speed :D

I think he already has a 6 speed, right?

Yeah but a backup unit might ease his apprehension :D

Ya and a pit crew!

Bring it to the H2R event on 11.14 he will not be able to walk away from it.

This thread just proves the saying: The loudest voices are often the most ignorant.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/FAQ/track_owned.jpg

Or they are queueing because that red gay boat is all over the place?
:youwish:

you can't handle my GT car. Those leather seats make it all that better.

I don't know much about you IRL but I'd guess that you're a mooch. You drive your car to the track and professedly routinely get close to the FTD right? And you expect someone to else to bail you and get you and your car home if you fuck up and mess up your car? There's a good reason why a lot of those 911s you pass aren't going that fast- they don't want their car to die and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd say that those people going at a "safe" and comfortable speed are being prudent, particularly if they drove their car there. I would really love to go to the track but if I screw up I don't want to have to say buh bye to all that money.

Yes, your personal finances do matter a great deal in this situation. As you've noticed all this car track racing (and even street-fast) stuff costs a lot of money. You seem to completely overlook that your car can be murdered by no fault of your own. If someone spills car juice all over the track, by you may be completely fucked out of your entire "investment" in your fun. Can you really handle that? It sounds like you can't. And that's investment in quotes because this is just for fun right? Good for you for going so fast that it costs you even more money to not break shit at that speed- that makes you a man. No, that really doesn't make you a man, that sounds like you're just like a greyhound at the dog track chasing a fake plastic rabbit. If you go super duper fast and set the track record what will that really get you? Are you trying to "go pro" or compete in some series? That will cost you way more that I think you can handle. Nothing's wrong with chasing a dream and wanting to be your best but be real and approach this shit like the enjoyable hobby that it is for you and pursue the hobby within the bounds of your financial means.

At a minimum hobby should not rely on the time, kindness, and labor of others to unfuck your lack of preparation and prudence. This is not do or die, this is supposed to be for fun and if your wallet can't handle that then take care of yourself and GTFO. If you're going to keep driving so awesomely then assume and manage your risks on your own and at least get a fucking trailer.