upgrading brakes
 

finally upgrading my stock (1.8) brakes, stock pads are due for a replacement and I'm looking to get street/mild track pads, steel braided brakelines and fresh fluid

probably going to use porterfield R4S pads, with the braided steel lines from good-win-racing (website seems done?) and dot 4 fluid (or dot 5?)

mostly street and mild trackduty about every month (Zandvoort :))
what fluid should I go for?

and how about rotors? my stock ones are still in good condition, so if I don't necessarily need them, I'll wait before replacing them

funny thing is, pads, lines, fluid and possibly rotors too, are cheaper for me in the US, even including shipping, than from europe:mad:

use a DOT 3 compatible fluid, like a DOT 5.1 fluid.

ATE sluper blue (500°F)

Amsoil Series 500 High-Performance DOT 3 (400°F)

Valvoline SynPower (500°F)


get cheap ass NAPA blanks or resurface yours.

I've had very good experience with:
http://www.raceshopper.com/hawk_brake_compounds.shtml
I run Hawk HPS on my daily/track toy, ATE blue, and Goodridge lines. I'm not boosted, but so far, I haven't had any issues with fade, or rotor life, and pad life has been excellent (7K street miles, 12 or so track days, down to about 25% or so).

If you us HPS on the track you arent trying hard enough :) I use HP+ on the street.

hawk HP+ pads
any rotors really (i use brembo sport slotted)
stainless lines from good-win-racing
ATE superblue fluid

i love my brake feel and performance especially at higher speeds

Amsoil Series 600 has a 580ºF dry boiling point and around a 420ºF wet point.

can you hook me up with that?

Yes, email me soflarick at bellsouth.net, give you a deal. You can get it by individual pints or by the case. I am trying to see if they'll start selling it by cases of 6, since cases of 12 is a little much for most of us. It's got the same boiling points as Motul 600 (I think the dry point is 5-10º lower on the Amsoil, but wet is the same) but is half the price.

I've been using ATE Super Blue, and once my last 2 liters are gone I'm switching to Amsoil 600. I've got to swap front calipers and do a complete flush of the brakes and clutch so 1 liter will be used up right there.

Screw street/track pads. Because no pad will do either as well as dedicated ones will. Same as 'all weather tires'. For track duty, check into Carbotechs. You're still NA so XP8's will do fine.

C

I think with Carbotechs, not 100% sure, you can swap around the compounds and not worry about the boundary layer on the rotor being an issue since the pads are made of similar components. Plus it seems even aggressive Carbotech pads aren't super aggressive to rotors.

If I needed front and rear pads, I'd just go with the Carbotechs. I have a couple sets of Cobalt GT-S pads for the front and HP+ for the rear, so once those are done I'm giving the Carbotechs a try.

stay away from the R4s for track, i've heard they crumble from track guys. i do run em on the street and never had a problem. actually had em on my car on the track once and they were fine, still are fine. about 100k miles later.

That's because by the time you install them, they've already used up their aggression on your wallet.

hawk hp+ on my 1.6 brakes at 94whp are slightly overheating. I swear by Motul RBF 600.

Maybe yes, maybe no, I'm not sure. I keep my track rotors, with my track pads, and my street rotors with my street pads. If you're swapping tires and pads anyway, rotors don't take much more time.

Also, I've driven home (a few hundred miles) on XP8's with no problem.

Carbotech's are expensive, but you appreciate it every time you hit the brake pedal.

C

I can't (and won't) swap pads and rotors every 3-4 weekends, so for now I'll have to compromise

soflarick: thanks, I'll shoot you an e-mail soon :)


done, let me know:)

about to order and I just noticed good-win also carries axxis ultimates, the ones I was eyeing before..now I'm having doubts about the R4S versus the ultimates..
help me out here:)

I have axiss ultimates, they were $80 shipped on ebay for all four sets. Used new rotors at the same time. I haven't raced the car though i hear ultimates are crap for the track like the R4s, possibly chunking. For the street they're great though.

The R4S's are probably going to be more aggressive stoppers than the Ultimates. Ultimates are nice street pads that can handle light track duty. They dust quite a bit, but are quiet and seem to last a while. I used to run them on my car until I got a big brake kit. I didn't use the brakes very hard on track as I was a novice.

funny, people here swear by r4s's or ultimates for light to medium track use on a streetcar
I can live with a bit more dust and noise, but need pads to work good both on track (novice-level) and street

Then get whichever is cheapest you should be happy with both.

and with light to medium track use I mean max. 4 20-minute sessions (more likely 2 for me) about every month

when you have more than 150rwph you'll change your tune.

There is no pad in existence that will work on the track and on the street. Sorry, it's not out there. Use Hawk HP+s if you think you can make them work, but I faded them on street tires and stock power in REAL short order (first session out). I run Raybestos ST-43s on the track and HP+s on the street, and I will probably switch to HPS pads for the street when the current HP+s wear out.

Having said that, there are a couple guys who say they are using Carbotech XP12s on the street with minimal rotor wear. The XP12 is a pretty serious race pad, so if it's true it's very impressive.

I ran similar length sessions with the Ultimates and they were okay. I ran Cobalt GT-Sport pads (old compound) after the Ultimates wore out. I liked them more than the Ultimates.

I know, but for the time being, I'm at, and will be at 96 rwhp unfortunately...

thanks for the advice all

soflarick: thanks for the hook up, I appreciate it :)

Cobalt friction pads anyone?

i ran cobalt sport gt pads on my civic, and the pads never faded on me. this was at gingerman, which is not all that hard on brakes... and i had a whopping 120hp.

HP+ for my front 1.8s and HP Blacks in da rears, Synpower fluid. My daily commute is 25 miles of twisty mountain driving and it's an awesome combo. No fading whats-so-ever and it bites NOW.

You ran blacks in the rear. Aren't they a track oriented pad?

damn, don't let this turn into a hustler-thread, I need to decide on some damn pads. Though, I have a few weeks before my new seat comes in :)

I have been using HPS fronts, and HP+ rears, and love them, no track time tho...

I have tried many many pads and here are my conclusions.

Axis Ultimates are great from street use in a NA car. They will work for your 1st few track weekends, but will crumble when pushed to the limit. I had a set get so hot they melted the backing plate and welded it to the caliper piston. They also dust very bad.

Hawk HP+ are a really good pad for street use and somewhat aggressive NA track use. Not having to swap pads is kinda nice. They do give up the ghost when you get to the point when you are pushing the braking envelope.

Carbotech pads are awesome and their customer support is great. Give them a call and they will let you know what you need. I ran XP-10s in the front and XP-8s in the rear on the track and would swap to XP-8s all the way around for autocross and street.

I am currently running Hawk HP Blues, Blacks, and HP+s. I run blues on the front and blacks on the back for the track. I run HP+s on front and blacks on the back for autocross and street. They are comparable to the Carbotechs, but cheaper.

I like the more aggressive pad in the back for autocross. It helps with the FR lockup under hard braking and also allows me to rotate the car a little easier when using trailbraking to rotate the car. I like lesser pad in the back on track. It keeps the back end from dancing when braking at the threshold. (From 130mph on the front straight at VIR and braking at or close to the 200 marker)

To the OP...
I would recommend the HP+s to you. They should take anything you can throw at them on the street in a NA car. I don't think you will be disappointed.