Why doesn't an intake have a collector that the TB mounts to with runners going from the collector to the head? Why isn't this more efficient/better than the standard plenum with runners?

This shit has been beaten to death.
Start searching bitch

In a nutshell: long runners with no plenum will make tons of torque and kill the topend power.

equal length tubular intake manifold FTW


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312315851
http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/v...4Moran23_z.jpg

I'll most likely be using an equal length runner/plenum/thing with my ITBs on the BMW.

Part of the reason (as I've heard it told) why they tend to make shitty top end power is due to the fact that the pulses of air caused by the snapping shut of the intake valves can't dissipate into the plenum and be absorbed by other cylinders.

I'm going to attempt to offset this with a helmholtz resonator on each runner.

Look for discussions on why plenums are an important part of manifolds.

Yes I mean something like what volcanic posted, but with a full 2 or 3 liters between the collector and throttle body.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...8&d=1294667586

Fae, read these as a start:

http://www.custom-car.us/intake/intake-manifold.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_%28automotive%29

Mazda make an intake manifold for the Z5 engine that looks like an exhaust manifold

Z series is the succesor to the B series more or less

yes, you've posted it a few times now.

in reality it has a similar concept to ITB with the use of individual stacks and with proper engine management you can control how much fuel is being sent to each injector

that wiki thread has a ton of great info. what would be really cool is to create two sets of runs, short and long, and have the short ones open after a certain RPM using butterflies and a vacuum actuator

edit: if this is a track only car you can tune the length of the runners for an RPM ranage that you are constantly above

(im really excited about this thread!)

isn't that what vics already does?
Also every other vtec honda out there has this already.

vics changes volume, not length.

vtec switches to a high profile cam above 5,500 rpm.

yeah which started on the 99 engines, i guess i was talking about the 1.6l as well as implementing it on a equal length IM

Mitsubishi did this in the late 80's early 90's. Google "cyclone manifold". They came on japanese only 4g63-T's.

my sentra has one too

And there's a lot of debate as to whether these actually do anything beneficial. Coming from DSM land I can tell you that there's much disagreement over their effectiveness and not much in the way of hard numbers (or at least last time I looked) pointing one way or the other. We have a small pile of them at the shop, and that's a direct reflection of their on again/off again popularity.

lets keep our eyes on the prize here. does anyone know why a tubular equal length intake manifold sholdnt work? we can get to the arguments of secondaries and butterflies later

I'm thinking hes thinking drilled out vics manifold.


If thats the case why not just toss the throttle body on the other side of the intercooler?

BTW it is not hard to fab up intake manis. I used to make some for BMWs. One time we modded some OE head flanges and plenums. Then we played with different lengths and diameters of tubing and coordinated some other hard parts like cams that modeling showed should work well. The best bits would up helping for sure, but they were not compact at all. Part of the OE compromise is for tight packaging and low cost manufacture. This was for NA application. You can get quite a bit above 100% VE at certain RPM ranges. Like passive supercharging. IIRC S2000s hit around 120% VE here and there per Honda. The key is that all the various bits need to be coordinated with one another. A wonder mani won't do much just slapped onto any engine.

Oooooooh! This *might* be a retarded idea, but I like the way this man thinks! Please school me.

Why not have an equal length runner/collector type intake manifold and put the throttle body way upstream to use the intake piping and/or intercooler as the plenum?

Arrgh. This is what I am asking about:

Throttle body goes into Bigass sausage shaped plenum. At the other end of the plenum is a 1:4 splitter which goes to each runner.


This would not eliminate the plenum. It would put the splitter at the END of the plenum.

and how do you plan to stuff this dildo into the engine bay?

No, not a dildo. I envision it more like this squid here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312338612

There's lots of room on the coldside. If people can stuff turbo and turbo manifold on hotside why not on coldside? Also there's room in front of engine. Fuck it. There's room in the damn cowl too. And the nose.

While u're at it.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312340836

LOL how did you find that pic?

More throttled volume = shittier throttle response. This is why hotside roots blowers suck ass.

While I'm still not sure if this is a troll thread, I'll toss this out there. One of the pages I linked to earlier describes the best intake mani design as incorporating an "air duct [to] feed the center of the plenum", so that the plenum is evenly pressurized ahead of each of the runners. Based on your squid, it seems that you would accomplish this center feed in probably an ideal way, such that the incoming air does not have to make a turn to get to any runners, the full volume of the plenum would be feeding all the runners, and the plenum would be pressurized evenly ahead of all the runners as well.

fae, why not just four runners and four throttle bodies and no plenum?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Who agrees? The future of the intake is squid intake. If I put an intake on my car it will be squid style. Or at least curved sausage squid style.

Why not? Plenum needed for boosts? I don't know? Costs?