Gauging interest- Full PNP push button start
 

A buddy of mine who helped me BIG TIME going through my wiring harness has asked me to post this, and because I know how particular he is about everything he does that i know this idea will be built with quality and customer satisfaction.

PNP Start button harness

So having a start button, let's be frank, makes starting your car pretty damn satisfying. The biggest hurdle is you always have to do some wiring modifications to the ignition harness. Depending on your outlook this can be no problem or it may provide some slight trepidation all the way to completely ruling out the project.

Having done a *bit* of Miata re-wiring I thought, "Hey why not come up with a PNP start button re-wiring solution?"

What this would be is a little harness which would go in between the ignition keyswitch and the stock harness. No splicing necessary, all connectors would mate with to the OEM. It would also include a relay to ensure for proper switching when you crank the engine (accessory circuits turn off.)
The benefit to how I plan to build it is that it would still allow you the security of requiring the key to turn the cars power on, you just now have proper start button to kick it all off AND be full reversible at any time.

So the grand question: Anyone interested?
Currently we have only really worked with NA's so this would be for those but I'm not ruling out the possibility of making them for NB or C if the demand grows.

We are thinking the price would be somewhere around the ballpark of ~$75 shipped in the US. We can and would also be able to get rid of the key entirely and wire a switch and push button in as desired. The wires will likely be built to reach the farthest point on the radio shroud and can be trimmed/extended as need be.

So for a future customer one will unplug this:

Attachment 193757

Plug our harness in, plug the other side back into the ignition (where you just unplugged) turn the key to on and push the button on the other end of our harness and your car will start.

For anyone who hasn't see this, some of our wiring work is shown in a little video I made.

if i had 75 bucks handy you would have pament from meh right meow! :giggle:

I would be interested...sounds bad ass

Where's the button? :)

Button would most likely be up to you for mounting. S2000 starter buttons are ~$20 and fit nicely in the cigarette lighter. If that doesn't work for you, a panel can be made fairly easily.

S2000 button and I'm in if we can get the price a little lower.

The price is about right.

Just for reference, Zoom Engineering sells a PnP kit that I had on my NA, IIRC the price new is around $75 + shipping from overseas.

http://zoom-eng.com/catalog/images/in160.jpg

http://zoom-eng.com/catalog/images/in160_t.jpg

This

Someone please explain the obsession over push button start. I'd be totally down if I could put my keys in my pocket and get in and hit start like you can in some newer vehicles. But in our cars you still need to put the key in the ignition and turn it, so why add in another step? I just want to go! What happens if for some reason the switch goes bad? Can I still start the car or do I need to disconnect it all?
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If you could find and wire up a remote relay, that would go off as soon as some dongle got close to the car, it'd be easy.

I tried to simplify my wiring by putting the relays in the hood. The turbo melted the wires, and I could no longer turn the car off, had to pop the clutch with the e-brake on to kill the engine. This is the ONLY problem I've had in the ~3 years I've had my system rigged up. And that's with spade connectors shoved in the Miata harness, and switches/relays replacing the rest of the function of the ignition key, which was actually the part that went bad.

I feel like I'm the one who's trying to sell the product. I'll shut up now. Push button starts are fun.

very nice video.

I would like to do an S2000 button one day, and having a PNP kit would be a nice way to do it.

biometrics + push button = win.

Ihh, and Zoom's button just looks generic.

If we're talking $75 using a high-quality button I can put in the cig lighter location, then I might be down.

I don't understand the reasoning either, but maybe I'm missing something.

Is there some performance benefit or is it just an extra step?

So my friend who started this project (NeilMG) just joined the forum so he'll be able to answer some questions too.
Here's his intro post:
https://www.miataturbo.net/meet-greet-40/newbie-worked-miatas-yet-doesnt-own-one-52375/

I can say push button is nice in autox when you spin and kill the engine. A lot nicer to just push the button instead of fumbling for the key to restart. That is about my only functional logic behind it though.

S2k start button in the cig lighter hole would be baller. Fits perfect.

Hello all, I'm Neil! As mentioned I'm going to chime in and hopefully answer all the standing questions so far. Here we go!

I'm thinking we could have some options, default would be to include a quality button but we could offer it with the S2000 button or as a harness-only option if you already have something in mind/on hand.

I'm thinking something like one of these:
http://www.automationdirect.com/imag.../m_e22eb2b.jpg http://www.automationdirect.com/imag.../m_gcx3101.jpg

I'm also working out something cool with a light up version of those.

I took a look at their kit, price is still $75. From what little I can tell from just the picture, it doesn't look like it disconnects ACC circuits when cranking. Do you recall from yours?

I wouldn't consider it a performance benefit, but then again big stickers add at least 10whp, so I'd say this button should get you at least 15. ;)
Seriously, they really just add some fun. In a full track car there isn't a key so you kinda have to go this route. I guess the idea is you're adding a bit of a "race car" element.
If the switch did go bad just like the stock one, you'd have to replace it. Fortunately here you could just unplug the harness and restore to "normal."

I agree, toggle switches for on + start button = really satisfying.
Keyless dongle and biometrics, now we're into the future! Not impossible, just for kicks I may look into this at some point. Just because...

I agree, it looks a bit underwhelming. I definitely would want to use a nice sized, solid button which has a nice feel/action to it. (Like those above.) For me quality is key for me, there's no point in making a shabby product because then you won't go very far with it.

Hmm good point. S2000 button does fit quite nicely.

Ok! I hope so far that takes care of most things. I'm still pondering on the price, $75 is kinda the ballpark but we've still got to see about getting all the various bits and such.
Given the pretty positive response I'm going to order some stuff so I'll hopefully have prototype photos for everyone in the near future.

Man thats one cool ass video! Great job on the build. That tucked bay looks amazing. I would be down as well, start buttons are cool as shit!

I honestly cannot recall now, I'm sorry. Guess I never really paid close attention to it.

Awesome video fellas.

Hey all, just wanted to give you an update: I'm currently hunting down parts. Turns out the connectors are becoming a bit harder to find, especially if I don't want to order minimum 1,500 of them! So that's gonna put a kink in the works for the prototypes. Rest assured I'm constantly looking!

However in the meantime I'll be getting some pushbuttons in as samples to see how well the fit, look, and feel. I'll have pictures posted of those as soon as they're in.

Hey guys first post here, i was readin this and had an idea. Someone mentioned a sort of proximity sensor to allow the use of the push start while keeping you keys in your pocket, what if somewher hiden was a reed switch and all the user had to do was place a magnet over it? The magnet is either conected to a key chain or just in the car somewhere. Just a thought i dont know if it would work

I'd be in if the solution has a proximity switch. It needs to not require a key in the ignition.

I'm going to implement the idea of the proximity switch+start button, albeit a little improved:

1) It's also going to be a stop switch: Pressing it will kill the engine without turning off the ECU (handy for several cases). It's going to be VSS and RPM deactivated, so that the passenger can't switch the engine off accidentally.
2) Instead of an RFID transponder or something else that is easily duped, I'm going to go with a really advanced solution:

http://media.digikey.com/photos/Texa...OS-xxx_sml.jpg

128bit encryption and practical too! I bought two of them to have a backup in case one of them goes bad.

A watch !?!?!?!?
I want!

Ok everyone, as promised I received a few pushbuttons in today and so I wanted to share a bit.

As you can see the button itself is about a inch across. Both of these are a "standard" 22.5mm button, meaning the hole you have to punch out to mount it is that size. 22.5mm is around 7/8 inch which from my quick measurements I believe is pretty darn close to a standard cigarette lighter hole.
The goal is to test fit these this weekend and go from there. I foresee that depending on where you mount it securing the contact block on the backside (the big rectangle thing) may be tricky. We shall see, more pics/information coming soon!

Attachment 193533

Attachment 193534

Attachment 193535

I'm kinda interested to see how the proximity systems turn out.

I've been kicking this around. I went so far as to put together a mental shopping list.. arduino, relay, rfid kit. Cost really wasn't very high at all (< $100), but i kept getting stuck at the steering wheel lock. Either you disable it, in which case your car is THAT much easier to steel / push away /what have you, or you don't, in which case you're back to using your key again.

How do you plan to deal with the steering wheel lock?

I know most of ya'll hate that forum, buuuut...

http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=35983

I'd be in for some sort of keyless set up. A toggle would work for me, don't need any of that proximity stuff. Just something else to break.

Seriously? For a track car, right?

It would be insane to do that on a street car imho.

Oh I will definitely delete the steering wheel lock. If someone makes their way into the car they can defeat they steering lock REALLY easy. A simple key is no protection, do not be fooled into thinking it will deter anyone. An alarm system and a GOOD immobilizer is what you should at a minimum anyway; I would add a GPS tracking service for the kicks as well.

Relating to the OP we could easily have a toggle switch on/pushbutton start option. The standard option would be just the start button keeping the key as the "on"/unlock feature.

As an update: I'm still working on the project, certain components have proved to be *really* hard to track down without buying a million of them. However there may be a physical prototype coming sooner than later.

Where'd you find those switches Neil? My startbutton is hard to push and I need something easier to push.

I actually got an empty connector with pins that plugs right into the loom that goes to the steeringlock/ingnition switch. Wired that up to my starter panel all plug & play, nu splicing needed in the car's wiring.

have you tried mouser.com (mouser electronics)? i bought 10 little cmos type batteries from them a few years back now they send me a phone-book sized catalog of every part known to man every few months. THey sell in eaches, and they answer the phone when you call!

Having tried a few buttons, I'd recommend the one on the left, very similar action to that of an S2000 button for reference. It's an Eaton / Cutler-Hammer button, specifically E22EB2B. Be aware that you need a NO (normally open) contact block, many come with a NC. There's a few sites, http://www.automationdirect.com or http://www.alliedelec.com/ which should have them (any industrial/automation supplier.)
Out of curiosity, did you buy an empty connector outright or was it from an old harness?

I've tried all the big companies including them. They all want a 1500 or greater minimum order. (One wanted 6000!) So unless everyone on the forum wants one I'm going to need to find a smaller order. This has been the big hangup.

Any updates?

I got them free with some orders at a local shop. If you want, I can check if they're willing to sell a larger quantity of these connectors (30-50 ish)
Let me know, they should be fairly cheap.

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Hey all sorry about dropping off the face of earth for a bit there, climbing back over the edge is a bit harder than I expected.

As for a long-overdue update on the project:
I still fully intend to get some prototypes designed and to make this happen. However! I have been unable to source the necessary connectors. The manufacturer will have them but for whatever reason not until late March/early May.

That given the project has a realistic timeline for first prototypes to land "Spring 2011." I'm still hoping it will come together before then.

Please do! PM'ed ya.

Cool. Sent you an email. I think we can work this out.

Is this push-to-start/push-to-stop, or push-to-start/use-key-to-stop? If the later, is there a lockout to keep from grinding the starter when the engine is already running?

It would be a push to start, key/toggle switch to turn off. Just like the stock keyswitch there is no interlock to prevent double starting. It could be done but would require additional circuitry and also splicing into the ECU harness to make it work right (so no longer PNP.)

Push Button Start W/ AUX I and II toggle.
 

Any one curious as to how to do this without spending but 30 buck let me know, i will tell you.

illeniummx5, the whole idea here is not about how easy or not it is to rewire the harness for a custom situation, this adapter/package is to allow a plug and play solution without modification to the harness because either you don't want to permanently modify and/or to avoid having to delve into the wiring that much.

To update everyone: It's been QUITE some time, I know...
Things have been up in the air for awhile and I made the move with Nick up to Lake Tahoe and have been a snow bum for awhile now. I haven't forgotten about this project. I'm now finally getting back to several projects so hopefully I'll have something together around spring in time for the summer race season. (I don't want to promise anything too early and then not stick to it.) I'll update as I have a prototype together and will re-assess people's interests then.

Thanks again all for your (continued) interest in this!

Neil

Updates?

I'm in if its with the S2000 button!!!!

Nothing's really changed since my last post. Tho due to low snowfall in here in Tahoe I may have more time to get going on this a bit earlier than spring.

Totally dude! S2K button will absolutely be an option.

Still selling the harness? Very interested! Pls PM me

I'm in if these ever get done...

It's been 2 years, it's not getting done. However, if you really want a pushbutton starter, there are 3 writeups at m.net: Miata Garage Interior