JasonC SBB

Does it have wheel differential speed based traction control?

Keith@FM

iTrader: (1)

No. A full list of features is included on the product webpage if you want to play the spreadsheet game. I'd post them here, but I can't manage to get the forum to format the table legibly so I have to settle for links.

FM221 for 1990-93
FM221 for 1994-97
FM221 for 1999-05

Chilicharger665

iTrader: (2)

So if I buy this, you guys help get the car tuned every step of the way? You responded to one of my questions on m.net and I realized I misunderstood what your "support" is all about. I am wanting to learn how to tune the car myself, but having tech support on figuring things out sounds great. You said that you guys will talk to a dyno tuner and evaluate logs and all that to help out. That is way more support than I was expecting. I am really tempted to try this thing out, even when I have a MS3 Pro plug and play sitting in my closet...

Anyone looking for a 01-05 MS3 Pro?

Keith@FM

iTrader: (1)

Yes, we will give you full tuning assistance. If you send us logs, we'll analyze them and send back tweaked maps. We'll help explain what's going on. We're still building them, but we'll have very complete instructions. You are not expected to know how to tune an ECU when you get it.

achervig

It's a pretty solid argument to a tuning novice like me. I can build almost anything, but I get nervous when the soldering irons come out.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Most the MS units available now require zero soldering. Most of them plug right into the stock harness.
There are so much base maps, guides, and tuning knowledge, as well as collective help available nowadays that 90% of sane, intelligent, at least somewhat competent people that took their time to do their homework and are not lazy/ignorant, can get their car running very well. Of course this still requires effort and some knowledge on the end users part. The learning curve is steep for the 1st half of figuring everything out.

With that said, the service FM offers with their new ECU is definitely exclusive and very valuable for some. Those that don't want to take their time digging through threads, reading manuals, learning, applying, etc. Those that just want to follow simple instructions and have their hand held over the phone should something go unexpectedly. (I don't mean any of this to be negative either, it's a service very few companies offer nowadays). Those people would gladly fork over an extra, $500-1000? for the support that is advertised to come with it.

achervig

Well said, and right on the money. Let's call a turnip a turnip . . . this is me. My Miata spent years under a steamy tarp in Florida with a busted roof before I got my hands on it. It was a muddy mess, and over the years I've had every nut and bolt out of this car, and I've done all the work myself. I'm in the middle of an engine rebuild as we speak. For every project I've done the thread-digging, the manual reading, the asking questions, learning and applying, and it's all been a great experience except for any of the electrical work. I'm baaaad at it, and I know I could learn it eventually but it just isn't appealing to me. That said, I do recognize what a rare blessing it is to have so much free online support from forums such as these. I just don't have the patience when it comes to electricals.

So having some support when I need it is pretty appealing to me, and sure I'll throw some money at that service. This makes me less cool than the MS Tuner kids, but I think my ego can take it.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Just keep in mind the alternative approach: If you can find a good/competent tuner that will be able to 100% dial in your car, just get what he prefers and not even need to touch any of it, and still end up with a well running car. It all depends on your level of involvement desired.

I do a bit of tuning on the side, and let me tell you: It's my personal pleasure to tune cars that the owner gives me goals for, asks me what to get, gets what I tell him, and then has me tune it.
vs
Doing no homework, asking no questions, having no goals, just buying up craploads of terrible parts cluelessly, then bringing me over a dysfunctional heap and asking me to work miracles and somehow make it run like a top.

FM Hydra, in my opinion, was an insanely overpriced, and mediocre at best MS non competitor.
And every time they'd update, you'd be forced to pay more money. And FM doesn't provide their support forever either, keep that in mind.
I really hope that they develop this ME-whatever ecu into something much better, and not keep milking the customers wallet every couple years for something they should be receiving for free.

phil21191

I've had numerous discussions with ME about their product and why they think its better than MS, and I'm yet to see them actual give anything quantifiable that makes they product better than say my MSLabs MS2 Enhanced. They've made a few blunders along the way, a friend had an issue that they had fixed in a Beta firmware they told him to flash, but this beta firmware left the bootloader locked so he had to send the ECU back to them to update to the new stable firmware.

Their sales tactic has left a little to be desired as its been quite largely centered around bashing the competition

codrus

It's basically $1895 for a Hydra vs $1409 for an equivalent setup from Trackspeed (MS3+LC2+can module+IAT sensor), so the premium is $486.

Additionally, a lot of MS users on this site wind up paying a tuner a few hundred bucks to dyno tune their car for them. If the support from FM enables the buyer to DIY the dyno tuning (as it did for me when I owned a Hydra), then perhaps one should count that too.

Yes, I switched from a Hydra to an MS3, but my reasons for doing so have more to do with me being a software guy and the MS3 being a somewhat more open platform because I can download the source code to it. (not as open as I'd *like* it to be, but still more so than the Hydra)

--Ian

18psi

iTrader: (76)

You've obviously more experience comparing/contrasting them than I, and you obviously are far more advanced than some random noob at dyno tuning, but I'm not sure that would apply the same for others: there's a huge difference between dyno tuning/fine tuning and getting a car driving decent by reviewing logs and making adjustments. Unless of course the customer would strap their car to a dyno and literally e-tune it with FM on the other end making real time adjustments, which I'm not sure they'd be able to support. There are companies that do this, and if FM actually will be doing this for the all inclusive price of the ecu, well that would be a game changer. Doubt it though.

codrus

I haven't tuned it with FM on the other end of the phone, no. OTOH, a good part of what I know about tuning cars came from talking to Jeremy (and before him, Ken) at Flyin' Miata over the years. When I put my first FM2 on the car, there weren't really any "will tune your car for cash" people around (well, there was Shiv, but he was really expensive and had a reputation for blowing up customer cars), so it was sink-or-swim. I was a random noob at that point. The support that FM offered was a major part of how I learned to DIY the tuning, and they offer that same support today.

--Ian

18psi

iTrader: (76)

https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...8/#post1388844

achervig

I read this and the attached threads on the ME221 that were added within it, and it seems to me like the company is quick to offer help and suggestions.
I can't imagine that FM would release anything with their name on it that didn't have at least a good amount of bugs addressed. I'm thinking I'll pull the trigger on this thing and will report my findings to anyone here who might be interested, or who just may want to throw some shade.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Do it
Document the process

Keith@FM

iTrader: (1)

To address this point specifically: we do provide support forever for the original owner. We are still supporting original Link owners if they need it, although very few do by this point. If you buy one of our ECUs secondhand, we offer lifetime support for a one-time cost that's equivalent to 1 hour of shop time. Since we usually have to teach the new owner everything from scratch (as they haven't done the initial research to buy an ECU in the first place), it's still a pretty good value. You get a lot more than 1 hour's worth of attention.

Incremental firmware upgrades have been free for Hydra 2.7. IIRC the earlier units didn't have the capability to reflash the firmware and there were actual hardware changes to jump versions, like 2.6 to 2.7. Everyone with an MS2 didn't magically get an MS3 when that came out either.

We have done live tuning over the net with the car on the dyno, but we do charge for the tech's time for that - it means you're tying someone up to do that and nothing else during that period, and it's a pretty unusual service. We usually work off customer provided datalogs, which is slower but still pretty darn effective. And we'll answer any questions you have about what we're doing, so you'll learn what's going on if you want to. It's the equivalent of having a tutor instead of a pile of recordings of class lectures.

We did go through some pain during the R&D process. Some was hardware, some was software. It took some time to get to this point. Undoubtedly, the very large number of possible combinations of parts means that we'll come across something we missed in testing, but such is the nature of the beast.

ridethecliche

iTrader: (2)

486 is plenty to get the car dyno tuned locally if you can find someone that knows what they're doing, no?

codrus

That depends on how much you want to mess with it afterwards. The thing about paying someone to tune the car for you is that you don't learn anything, which means when you change out the exhaust for something better and it needs to be tuned again, you're right back where you started. Learn how to tune it yourself and you can re-tune it yourself.

--Ian

achervig

Bought an FM221 today. I will report on my experiences.

Keith@FM

iTrader: (1)

FYI - thanks to a continuing good UK exchange rate, we're extending the introductory pricing. Still $995.