As I said, you have no argument to make - this is evident by you claiming to know how long I have been involved in ECUs for, which, you don't. Never assume my friend....

And, like you, I have every right to compare my company to theirs - I did, with real numbers, and facts about RMAs, support, UK tuners using it and dumping MS, what have you presented? Nothing but threats of a ban if/when you lose the argument.... :) Even if this does get deleted and banned etc, I will view this forum and your posts with a smile from this point forward :)

I'll leave it there anyway, and await the independant review from the user - welcome to the world of the 221 - both us and FM are here if you need support :)

Why are we discussing the ME221 in a thread about the Hydra???

Because your friend 18psi commented on its value, mainly.

Every now and then I do a littler web search for ME221 etc, and on the miata turbo site there is always a comment from him somewhere - I was mainly intrigued as to what I did to offend him - seems I have to look it up though lol

-18psi - in terms of being under a different, I am unable to login on the ME one - I hardly tired to hide my identity though, should of gone with 19psi as a user name for giggles :)

That's the part you're failing to grasp: You suck at reading comprehension.

I'm an independent user. You're arguing with me and crying like a little baby because I brought up issues with your ecu when it was being developed. Which you agreed with, just a few posts up.

Let's be really clear, once again, since you can't read: the ONLY reason you're not already permanently banned is because I gave you an opportunity to not be a crybaby and participate in this discussion. You're actually doing a really good job of making yourself look like a self-praising crybaby instead of an industry professional.
bawwww, the boy at school was mean to me.
Grow up. If you want to actually get info you wouldn't be here crying that everyone is mean, you'd be looking up threads to see why we formulated this opinion about this unit.

But here we are....

Braineak banned your other account. You should have done that, it would have spoken volumes about you and your company :)

But don't worry, I'm quoting this post for the giggles :giggle:

I am up for participating, I asked you to list the issues so they could be addressed - I have searched on here and there is not a myraid of threads, hence my confusion.... why can;t you just put a simple list? Its easier than arguing is it not?

Like this one (ssr\ching ME221) - its about MS, and ends with a guy recommending it - see my point, I either don;t know how to use this forum or I am missing something??? Maybe access rights as new user??

https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...e-89533/page2/

Could you please try harder to be a troll? I'm loving the fact that your true colors are showing as a ecu competitor and once previous vendor for this site.

:cjerk:

As I said I think my user access (maybe I cannot see certain sections) of the forum means I can;t see all the ECU issues we apparently have - apologies if that's the case, I await links, still :)

No, you just suck at searching.

https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...t-start-91948/

They are few and far between as you weren't around for very long yourself before getting banned.

That one I believe I address above as 18psi linked to a chap called Elior - and the user manual explains how to make the FP work properly on the AFM based FP trigger cars - diagnostic link is a get you running method, which is what we did with the customer, and the manual does explain the correct solution.... null point... next... :)

Here, in the manual :) The customer chose to call us so we just told him what to do on the phone, and his car immediatly sprang to life :) Also, note, the 1st page of manual details this common issue, and where to get get help...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...rAFn5ug0/edit#

Yeh No - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. - View Profile: Ciaranmx5cork Do you even link bro?

Haha obviously not :) Ellior posted further down the page, that is what I was referring to - as the actual ;'wont start issue' seemed like a pretty open and close, "read the manual, not really an ECU issue" kind of problem.... my mistake for thinking you considered one phone call and something that was indeed stated as an install process for that model in the manual as a serious design issue though...

Anyway, this has been fun, and I think theres not much I can add anyway - time to get back on with the wideband development :)

BTW - if I am allowed to hang around, I am happy to aid with ME221 support, though of course our susual support channels of phone, tickets or our ME Users facebook page are the preferred method of comms! Cheers

18psi was running an Adaptronic at one point. He's open to options that might work out well for a reasonable price. We all are. But your social skills are quite a turn off.

Interesting picture.....

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...753eac45f9.png

Your hands look identical to the guy from DIYAutotune. @Ben I think.

MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com

i prefer searching for the posts were you guys couldn't figure out how a DIYPNP worked, then went on to copy a DIYPNP...

Copied it right down to the manual pics? Shame they didn't give credit for all the creative and intellectual property they used. That says something about character, too.

So that's two things I don't like about him, since I'm making a list.

It took me all of about ten minutes looking at their early pre-production unit in Colorado to realize they'd... borrowed heavily... from the MS world.
I made my feelings known immediately.

The people in charge didn't seem to care.

There are many reasons why I'm not in Colorado anymore. This whole ME221 project was the biggest reason.

Well they actually started by counterfeiting megasquirt boards. So it makes sense.

Megasquirt clones, copies and counterfeits - Megasquirt EFI

Chalk another one up to folks who can mimic, but not innovate.

An actual Hydra update though. Talked with a tuner who does a lot of Hydra stuff, developed a basemap for it, etc. They are still being sold, but they don't have any sort of software dev guy working for them. So no real updates can be done. Apparently the firmware has a lot more features in it than are currently enabled, they just need software written around them.

So still a solid ECU, and good hardware, but nothing in the pipeline as far as big software updates.

Completely incorrect Joe - the picture was one from a google web search, actually, admittedly, I will take 5 minutes tomorrow to update to our own image... we use a completely different type of processor and architecture to MS, thats why it is 10x more accurate on ignition and 100x more accurate on fuelling.... (compared to MS2 anyway as I haven't yet had experience of MS3).

There are fundamental differences that separate our ECU from MS, from the PTM, to the comms protocol, to the actual HW architecture.... Ours was developed for a Le Mans engine - does MS even have GDI or DBW capabilities (Have a look under DBW on our ECU, spot the MS bits there - I dont expect so...) I suggest you get your facts correct before making libellous claims - which parts on our PCB did you notice the MS uses Joe? I admit we had a comm port, and a PCB, but injection drive, coil drive, VR, Op Amp based anolog input filtering, DSP windowed knock control, Flash data logging memory (as opposed to SD Card), the list goes on.... that's why the higher powers didn't care - the point was as incorrect then as it is now... Anyone with basic electronics engineering can confirm that, and anyone who takes a look at the open source comms protocol we released will see how ours was implemented by Alex, MEs Software engineer, who clearly knows what he is doing.... It would be HARDER to disguise our product this far from MS than it would be to start from scratch, and the fact that we had ALOT of funding to do so for the Le Mans engine development means that is what we did..... The first ever version even had 16x16 ignition tables and floating point resolution for all the fuel/ign tables etc.... not sure if MS3 even has that does it?

Hmmmm. I found it?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e472808e48.png

So you copied megasquirts in the past? But now you make your own?

See I didnt even know they did it - thats how much we copied them...

Doesent look like a very safe system - secondary TPS and DBW sensor positioning etc in there?

Our V4 ECU could run MS2 FW, but was clearly labelled as such and we were only banned from selling when we fell out with a chap called Bill Shurvington, and we then stopped - Before that we used to buy MS1 V3.0s in from Jerry @ DIY... its an old story maybe 8 years ago - started ME221 dev approx 5 years ago, and before I met Alex I did a small, simple electronics ignition system called the NODIZ, using a PIC processor and 8 months of messing :)

Matt, go back to "developing" your "new" wideband.

And perhaps your online time would be better spent over on an FM-approved Miata forum, Miata.net.
There is a much better pool of FM221 customers over there. You're only going to dig a deeper hole for yourself here.

I "will" do "just that" :) ciao

So its superior....to something you haven't tried?

Megasquirt clones, copies and counterfeits - Megasquirt EFI

So the copying of the boards isn't considered counterfeiting to you?

Some experience required

I have tuned yesterday the car that Elior complained about, we all happen to be friends. Knowing first hand the issues they encountered from day one I can understand their frustration. I had a nightmare tuning this car yesterday.
1. There is an error when trying to log pulls, so I had to work with what I felt was ok.
2. The ignition table management is horrible. You can't increase or decrease marked cells by any increment. Only interpolate or manually adjusting each and every cell. When you try to copy a row anywhere, it copies that row to the entire rows underneath it.
3. Choosing a number for overboost is greyed out! Can't adjust it or enable it from what I have seen.

And this is just from what I have worked with, and that's not getting on about the menu layout.

Wouldn't be the first time that our IP has been ripped off by M-Tech. I mean ME. I mean Matt Thorne.

Megasquirt clones, copies and counterfeits - Megasquirt EFI

And the truth shall make you free.

I'm Alex, I own 50% of Motorsport Electronics and I feel like my company has been affected by how these discussions evolved and by past history that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the company.

First of all, on the software, since my primary role here and why I got into the business was to design and create the firmware to run the ECUs and the software to configure them. From design to implementation, it's 100% original. Don't take my word for it, just look at the architecture of the processor, the communication protocol that has been released as open source and compare it to Megasquirt's. There's absolutely no connection there and it's very easy to prove.

As for Matt's dealings with Megasquirt, that's a completely different chapter! It was before Motorsport Electronics and he was accused of copying the software, which I've just proven above it to not have anything to do with. Anyone is more than welcome to put the two ECUs side-by-side and see that they are based on two different software solutions:
- 221 uses floating point for every data entity in the ECU, whereas MS uses (mostly) integers.
- Communication protocol is completely different
- Idle algorithm is completely different
- Fueling algorithm is completely different
- The flexible IO system is completely different

Yes, Matt's relationship with MS went south a couple of years before we started ME. That's been documented and discussed to death. How does that have anything to do with ME, a company that didn't even exist back then and was only started years after said events happened? How does that have anything to do with me, or the ME221? Just stop and consider that for a few seconds please.

And of course there were issues. We'd be lying if we said there weren't. But which product doesn't have them? We aren't afraid of exposing them, hence we have a dedicated public Facebook group for all the users and we consistently help out people on the forums with questions that are ME221-related. The product has also come A LONG way since Joe has last seen it, hence having both versions on sale now. I think the last couple of pages are a prime example of how not to debate on a forum, but I'd be more than happy to answer any actual questions on the subject of the ME221.

Cheers,
Alex

The M-tech V4 board was never licensed to run the MegaSquirt firmware, nor were the unauthorized copies of the V3.0. It is possible that the code team was not aware of the V4's existence, and therefor did not send a cease and desist letter, until after the falling out.

All I can say is that I got a unit for a customer before testing it myself - first mistake, after all I have been through with this unit I am not selling it any more.

Sorry it is just not ready - too many rough edges.

This thread turned out pretty good after all.

You don't seem to be a douche like your partner. You seem much more thoughtful and mature.

:rofl:

Alex,

While the snafu with the Megasquirt piracy and all the history to go along with it may have nothing to do with your current company, ME, they do have everything to do with your partner in crime. Sadly, these things tend to follow people. For those that know the history, your engineer (or one of them anyway) ripped off technology from a different manufacturer and tried to claim it as his own. While that may have nothing to do with ME, it has everything to do with his character and we all know that you are the company that you keep...

Hi Alex,
That's cool. I'm glad that you didn't just copy our source code, but why did you copy our manual?

Below, please find your manual from Nov 16, and then my manual that is more than 10 years old. You clearly plagiarized my manual. You even of a picture of my hand in your manual. Those are my words. THAT'S MY HAND.


ME221 manual, Nov 16:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...686bab9209.png

MSPNP Gen1 Manual, from 10 years ago:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9c4e0e47ac.png

Also note, their order of operations.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6ab7bd315b.png

So it's not speed-density?

I'm pretty sure Ford and Honda were doing speed-density before megasquirt was...

--Ian

The manual was written by myself - The pic and 10 words or so of text were taken from sources on the web for that connector - I added to it to label the correct wire colours and also what to do with the other 5 pin versions - apologies, I will tomorrow change the picture to one taken in house - and to be honest its one of those things when compiling the manual that I just never got round to updating.... The picture was obtained from a google search though, not looking through your manuals, it may of linked back there however. In fact I think it was actually posted originally by an ME221 user on a forum - edit found it...Iat Sensor Reading Me221 - Forced Induction & N/A Power Mods - MX5Nutz Forum

As to what I may or may not of copied with rights or not to do so, the story is very long and old, and in short I created the V4 based ECU based on the V2.5, and was given permission by that very same person whom had a lincense to do so, who I believe was called Lance, but I really don't remember - its old news, very old news, and I soon realised MS with its 16bit power and architecture just could never do what an ECU I wanted to do could (i.e remappable IO/tables etc) this was actually documented by me in a video when we first starteded to explore the methodology of the ME22 as a retailable system after we finished the ME442 race ECU here:
Suffice it to say this 'modifyiability' isnt open to the public MEITE software - we need an easier way of letting users 'flow chart; the process chains visually, but it can be glanced at by the way the tables are named and pointers etc work inside the ECU...

*chuckles*

I totally get that, and I am not even remotely trying to claim anyone involved with MS invented speed-density. It's just a little ridiculous to claim that the fueling algorithm is totally different when basically all standalones offer the same algorithms (which is a good thing).

94-95 basemap from DIY autotune and ME.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...511b972f90.png

MOAR POWAH.

They never did have a good explanation for not taking advantage of their 16x16 tables... guess it was too hard to develop 16 unique breakpoints.

Looking at how the table is built it looks like it interpolates past the end of the table. So you need both rows the same at the end, or else you have no idea what is happening.

So first it was accidental use of a photo. And then it was the picture and "10 words or so", but clearly you copied and pasted the entire text from my manual into yours. Dude, you have a track record of ripping us off, and here you are, ripping us off again. The link you posted has a photo of the connector, but none of the text. You had to deliberately find, then copy and paste the text. It is obviously plagiarized. Like, you'd get kicked out of a university if you turned it in as a paper, plagiarized.

Do you really expect me to believe that you didn't "quite innocently" rip us off in other places? If you'll do it where it's obvious, you'll do it where it's not.

Thats an ignition map - and we found it to work very well on the dyno - you can see we improved upon it.... We were actually supplied these numbers by G19 Engineering in the UK for our initial maps.... take it up with them we were not to know the source, nor did we care... its a table we later got RIGHT on our rolling road here, hence the actual data differs.... Hopefully our VE tables dont look like VE tables, or our engine CC doesent match as well.... come on guys, this is just getting a little silly now...

Joe don't comment on mapping buddy, we saw your skills in action when we were in Colarado with you....

You are welcome to believe what ever you see fit - we got rid of everything MS and started fresh, some 2/3 years later - as Alex has pointed out quite well....

And MS has a track record of ripping off small business and tightening the noose which is EXACTLY what they did to me 10 years ago. I apprently 'reipped off' MS before there was even licensing, and once I was informed I offered to pay licensing, then I decided to try my own way when MS said no, and I stopped selling it, and started work on the NODIZ :) I had the same agro from megajolt fans about that, however, megajolt needs EDIS, NODIZ has the drivers built in, so completely different in terms of complexity (though some didnt understand that comupting trigger patterns and telling an EDIS when to fire are leagues apart) etc, but still, the same old crap from the same old people...

I have had enough of defending myself to a competitor - you have a nice little piece of historical leverage you can use over and over again, even if the timelines and processes are innacurate - its so long ago I don't even have the emails from it anymore.

I don't want to waste anymore time on this - both myself and Alex wish you all well, and we will continue to work on our ECU - now all of the UK tuners are using it, and rightly saying how much easier it is to tune than MS, how much more repeatable, reliable etc it is, that is worth more of a win for me, the product, and the company, than any comment on a forum every will be...

Best wishes,
Matt

Hmmm. I guess its not ripping someone off if a third party gives you the data...

Does copyright work like that? IANAL.

If it's a from-scratch software implementation on a from-scratch hardware board of an algorithm that isn't protected by a patent, then it's "totally different" in every way that matters.

--Ian

AIUI, copyright only applies to creative works, not to tabular data like that. Courts have decided that the information in the phone directory is not copyrightable, although the exact format in which that data is presented can be.

--Ian

Again, I also never said that there is anything wrong with using the same algorithm. I actually literally said the opposite of that:

All I ever did was highlight that it was ridiculous to say it's a different fueling algorithm if it's speed-density. Never said MS3 invented speed-density, never said it was wrong to use speed-density, never said anything like either of those things. Just a funny thing for him to say.

I don't know where you're going with this.

oh hai guyths

:love:

HI KEITH!!!

So what's up?

I get a notification every time this thread is updated. Silly me clicked on it.

You know you love this thread :)