240sx vs. Miata
 

So for a while now I've been looking to get rid of the Miata. I like it very much, I love working on it and I love driving it, but I just kind of want to try something different. I'm attracted to the 240SX (I should say an S14, but only because I like the looks more :)) because there is:

HUGE aftermarket
Lots of support
Looks good
Still light, but bigger than the Miata

I know I'm asking this on a Miata forum so it'll obviously be biased, but has anyone owned a 240 and switched to a Miata or visa-versa? (Paging 240 to Miata...). I'll probably do the same I did to my Miata: Either turbo the stock engine or just throw an SR20 in there and add MOAR BOOST!

I'm mainly interested in:
1. In general, how would you compare the comfort to that of a Miata (I know there are a million different factors, but things like road noise, vibrations, that sort of thing).
2. How much does it cost to run compared to a Miata?
3. How was owning it? Just in general. Combining everything overall. Comfort, potential speed, handling, practicality, annoyance, that sort of thing.

Thanks to anyone who helps :).

*Puts on flame suit*

I can't say anything for ownership, but I've ridden in quite a few 240s and just recently drove an SR20 swapped s14 (had FMIC, piggyback, larger turbo, etc) and have just never been impressed. I'm not saying they can't be fun and fast, but all of the ones I've been in just fell short.

FWIW though, this is coming from the guy that sold his turbo miata to buy a 32 year old 2600lb 100hp BMW, so if it is what you want to do, just buy one :)

I have tons of 240 friends and to me, the 240 is boring as shit.

only thing its good for is drifting

Mind elaborating? Not calling you out, I just want to do some research before I buy :).

The car feels like a boat compared to a miata. Not high strung, not nimble, not as responsive. Interior is huuge compared to a maita. Definitely lower quality too (if that's even possible). Tons of squeeks, rattles, etc.

Best way to describe it: its a stretched miata with lower quality construction.


Sure they are easy to mod. I'm sure they're easy to make fast. They can be made to look fantastic.


If you want one just get one and see for yourself. No one can make up your mind for you. Listening to us bitch about or praise them won't really help you.

Go out and drive one.
If you drive a stock one you WILL fall asleep. Guarranteed. Its that slow/clumsy/boring.

A long long time ago (1990 or maybe late 1989, can't remember) I test drove a new 240sx. That same day I drove a Miata. A week later, I was the proud owner of a shiny new white Miata. No comparison.

Lay down and let that thought pass.

drop in a RB26dett brah. that's the only legit way to drift king status.

As much as I hate to admit it... I've toyed with the 240 idea myself in the last few months. Find an S13 chassis in decent shape, wouldn't even have to run. Can find those ever around here all day long for $1000 or even less. Gut the horribly ugly interior and engine bay, respray the entire car, maybe leave carpet in. I don't get the SR20 swap, other than it being the MAD TYTE JDM YO! engine of choice. I'd much rather do a rebuild of the KA24DE with pistons and rods, then easily have an engine capable 400whp. After market parts are plentiful and cheap. Do some pretty costly suspension mods and have a pretty fun, nice looking car for multipurpose fun. Biggest reason is that 240's have a bad name thanks to the vast army of ricers and drifters who half ass them. I'd want to buy one and do a good build, and actually make a all around good car out of one. People always seem to cut corners on 240's.

the popular answer was that it ischeap and basically pnp, so for those broke ass wanna be drifters they can go from stock n/a to a boost ready motor with a complete turbo setup and all the bells/whistles for roughly 1500-2000 compared to spending 2k on building a ka24 and then spending at least ANOTHER 2k on a turbo system.

I was in the same boat right before I bought my Miata. At the time I had friends that hade both an S13 and S14. In stock trim, the S13 was faster, but not nearly as sleek looking. Both we pretty boring to drive, too. If you think about it, the power/weight is nearly the same as an NB. I'd say go for the 240 if you need the extra room. If you are going to get an S14 the 97-98 is the way to go, though. BTW 240's can be made to handle very well, you just don't see it often because everybody wants a supa dorifto mobire.

the KA motor's weakest spot is the head, but then so is the sr20. since the sr20 comes turbo, it's easier to build up since the bottom end has been known to handle 20-25psi with head work(cams), where the ka24 can do maybe 15-20psi, but in the end will cost more than taking a sr20 and doing a few bolt-ons. going with a full blown build, it's not going to matter either way. You'll be spending upwards to 5-8k on both motors if you want a properly built motor. sr20's has way more support and r&d than the ka24, thus more cost effiective. oem parts are cheaper for the ka24, but for strong aftermarket parts, the sr20 is the way to go.

in truth, most drifters only need about 250rwhp with a strong lsd and tires. it really depends on what you're attempting to do with a 240sx to determine what you need.

*edit

re-read your post. get a SE or LE

i've been in a few, and yea, not as twitchy as a miata, but all around better feel for daily use. track use, you need to do some mods, and if you're looking to swap motors, there's several ways to go.

It seems to me that the 240 is losing it's popularity. I just do not see them as often.

There was a 240 with an SR20 going in the 10's at Bradenton. He had enough mph to go in the 9's if he could get the car to work off the start. No cage, roll bar, or any safety equipment. They eventually kicked him off the track.

My main thing is that the KA24 is of course 2.4 vs 2.0 of the SR20. A little head work, bottom end rebuild, and you have a pretty good little engine. I'd rather make more tq all around and more hp on less boost in a KA24.

Don't forget that 98% of 240 owners are broke ass highschool kids with shitty cars....so unless yours is spotless clean and sticks out among the crowd, you'll be lumped into that 'idiot owner' stigma they now own.

I've driven quite a few, and the best term I can think of to describe everything about the car is lazy...handling, comfort, build quality and overall feeling. I personally can't stand S13s...S14 or GTFO.

another good car to consider is the mustang :laugh::laugh:

Which is why I only played with the idea, and only for a week or two, then decided against it. 240s are boring, and really not of my taste. I was just grasping for a super cheap and affordable build that could make good power, and that isn't my daily driver.

I was taken for an acceleration run late one night in one that made 428whp. It was strong on acceleration but as everyone stated the car squeaked, popped, and rattled enough to be annoying in five minutes. It seemed to have body flex issues. The interior plastics were cheap and hard. The owner races for money and the car is quick but aside from the drivetrain the car seemed like junk even though the car looked good.

What's really funny to me is that 240SXs were always girl's cars when they came out. Dads bought them new for their daughters to drive to college and now they are a hardparker's wet dream. Silly ricers.

But only if it is a 2.3l 4 cylinder.

:laugh:

and only if its carburated

Hey!

Easy on the carburetor comments. :laugh:

For the 1st time ever, that was not even directed at you:)

240sx has to be on the short list as a competitor to miata. there just aren't that many rear drive light to semi-light cars out there. i still have one (1990) which i bought as a track car before getting the miata. full disclosure: i have an sr20 in the miata, so the following is what i've learned from my research on sr20 weaknesses/upgrades for road racing, not practical experience in the 240.

base model 1990 with the 3 valve motor (completely stock)
weighed it on a truck scale: 2620. not bad, but i doubt you could get it down to miata weight without some work.

goods:
lots of cheap upgrade parts: z32 aluminum uprights, z32 aluminum calipers, diff ring/pinion no problem. lots lsd choices, although drifting centric. aftermarket gearsets for 5speed transmission.

sr20det is a drop-in if you don't mind cutting holes in the body for the fmic.

rb20det has an iron block, but being a 2.0liter with the 6*2 intake valves, it breathes really well and its super cheap - $1000.

rb25det - boring, skip it.

then there is the rb26dett - and this composite dyno chart is some of the best porn out there. twin turbo setup has nice power curves, even better than a pushrod v8 imo.

http://lh5.google.com/tyndago/RvHv4T...turbochart.jpg


bads:
chassis rigidity of a wet noodle

strut front suspension. will need huge static camber to get it to turn as compared to miata.

if your game is to go fast around a track, suddenly your big market got pretty small. street driven and drift cars don't really separate wheat from chaff imo. so you will end up having a lot of trial and error to find parts which make the car faster rather than slower and/or louder.

Wirelessly posted

Man i could write a book on this. All my friends had 240`s about 5 years ago. The only cool one was a vert we converted to 5 speed then did an rb25 in. It still handled like turds. but it was sexy as shit. it was an oversized miata. In my ricer street racer days i still pulled more bitchez yo. The other ones were turds. There was an sr20 that has a gt2871r when they were newish that made 360 wheel, and i think my shit would come close. They have potential but you will be grouped with the rest of the doriftos. The coolest car i have owned to this date was a 86 corolla gts COUPE! i bought when i was 15 (11 years ago before they were cool. i am a damn trend setter) . I think these are just band wagon cars that can be fast and do well with the correct owner (see dave colemans coupe.... fuckin awesome) but i some how don`t appreciate because they lack soul. They are not and never will be as lively as your car. I have wanted to sell my car about 6 times. Now i have just settled for a chassis swap. there are few cars i would own over this one (realistically on a e-4 budget) would be a ls1 camaro 6 spd then a 96-98 cobra. I don`t even think i would trade my car for the cobra now. Keep it. You will regret not having it. I am driving my wife`s 09 si now that my clutch hose broke and i miss it allready. But i cant say shit. My mother in law said i can have her 5 spd s13 coupe fer free when my enlistment is up. Wait i have a great idea..... there so damn cheap. Buy both!!11!!1!1!1!1!11111

another thought is if you even find a clean s14, it's going to cost you around 6-9k for it. why not just get something fun, fast and comfy (if left stock)

Evo.

'03 evos with lower miles can be had for around $13k, and are amazing on the track. just need to know what to look for so you don't get a lemon.

It always amazes me how 240 guys talk about how great their cars handle. They obviously dont know shit.

Ive driven a number of 240s, stock, modified suspension, good tires, stripped, etc.
They are fucking LONG and the chassis has a TON of flex in it. The whole thing just feels like its getting buttfucked by the corner.
There is simply no comparison to a miata when it comes to handling. the 240 is not a good handling car by any means. My 3600 lbs Mustang handles better than any 240 Ive ever driven.

The only reason Id ever get a 240 is for making a street/drag car out of one, since the engines are decent and there is aftermarket support. But It wouldnt be my first choice for that either.
Id take just about any honda (made from 90-00) over a 240.

Also, 99% of 240 kids are fucking retards. Thats true for Hondas as well, but at least honda guys know that their cars handle like shit.

all i can say: i drove a few 240sx's... they were fun, but the first time i drove a miata i bought one within a month.

Good luck finding one that's not a huge pile of fecal matter

Is the 240 chassis really that flexy? I mean the miata ain't exactly the stiffest noodle in the box. I've ridden in 5 friends' 240's (2 s13 hatches, 1 zenki s14 and 2 kouki's) and all felt stiffer/more solid than my miata. My car creaks about as much as theirs do (except one kouki) and I have a 94 with frame rails and rollbar. I am yet to drive one though

One of the main reasons i would do sr vs ka is due to the light weight on the sr block ( Full aluminum) opposed to ka ( iron block). Its a pretty big difference and not having that extra weight really comes in handy.

As far as the miata vs 240sx. It depends what your intentions with the car are. Ive had a s13 before and I can tell you that my miata is much more nimble and agile than the s13 could have ever hoped to be. IMO the only area where the 240x dominates is in the drivetrain.( SR strong stock internals, beefy differential, decently strong trans).

lol @ suggesting evo to high school student.

I've spent a good amount of time behind the wheel of an rb20 swapped S13. It was pretty quick, rev'd sky high and the noise was teh sex. And it was gutted to bare minimum. It had coilovers and a lot of camber and did reasonably well at autox. It's certainly more numb to drive than a miata, but honestly any other rwd coupe will probably feel like that because it'll be bigger.

The other couple I drove were alright. One was stock and was auto so...yeah. And the last one had some nice suspension and a real solid chassis. Handled well and looked awesome with the Silvia front clip.

I know if I found a clean chassis and had the spare cash I wouldn't have an issue with building up a 240. The problem is finding a chassis that isn't rusted to shit or full of dorifto damage. And all the dashes are cracked. And no matter what, A/C just doesn't work in a 240. Ever.

I drove one and it was kinda fun....got back in my car and realized why I didn't buy a 240.

This is my buddies old 240 coupe. It was super fun to cruise around in. Had a redtop sr20 with a 2560 at around 14psi. Nice wheels, rubber and decent coilovers.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs051...._3813584_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2836278_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5051984_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5278643_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6283670_n.jpg
(Yes, that is a large penis)

!

I just about shit a chicken when I saw those pics

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The penis wasnt there when I was there, lol

Haha, small world. Most visitors to the keys can never find that place, more of local spot.

I was a resident of Key West for a short time. My dad still lives there.
One time when I was visiting him I saw those towers from the canal behind his house, so I drove over there to check it out and take some pics.

This is fuckin' whack.

Edit: Where's Dave Coleman when you need him...

since viperormiata is whoring out my old s13, I figured id come check out his intentions. since im here I might as well add to the discussion.

I had the pleasure of autoXing both my s13 and a friends miata "Josh wouldnt let me drive the spec :p* It felt likew no matter how more built my s13 was the miata ALWAYS felt quicker, and the times almost showed it. It all comes down to driving style and what you can handle better. S13s have HORRIBLE understeer during the initial turn in. With a stock chassis it was very hard to brake deep into a corner and pull the line. The stock bushings are 99% worn/melted/not there and feels like you are driving soggy pancake. Once the bushings are replaced it becomes a different beast.

I had my s13 tuned to compete and beat the mini coopers in my class *and they hated it* the KA has alot of useable torque in the low end, and was very comfortable with the response. The car you see was my first SR swap. It basically comes down to if you know what to replace and what to tune...the s13 chassis can be a VERY quick car. People are correct though about the sloppy feedback from the chassis. You either deal with it, learn to beat it, or spend alot of money fixing it. Truth is alot of s13 owners HAVE NO CLUE what they are doing, and gives us a bad name. I must apologize for them.

My white s13 was BATSHIT fast, and stuck to whatever line you felt like running. But enough about that. Lets talk about my experience with my friends miata.

Both cars with minimal mods and good rubber...I would post times 5-10 seconds faster in the miata than I could with my s13. The car loved feedback and went there you wanted it to go. Driving that was so much fun. I didnt care for the snap oversteer but thats expected from such a short wheelbase. The car constantly felt like it wanted its rear end sideways. The body roll was HORRENDOUS! With these problems taken out of the picture the miata was out of the s13s league. I simply could not post times the way I could in the miata.

All in all, if I were to build a dedicated track car. I would pick the miata. The upkeep on the tuned s13 was rediculous. The SR is prone to running a wee bit hot, and doesnt like long track sessions. Cooling wasalways a concern for it. I feel a lesser built miata could outrun a s13 any day.....unless we were talking about my white car :p

Before I got my miata I was also in the market for a 240. The wet noodle chassis was definitely a deal breaker for me. That and every highschool kid that has one thinks them and their cars are the dopest shit on planet earth. I think all gens look fantastic though.

no question the miata is quicker stock without even trying. but i'm not aware of any problems with the s13 or 14 chassis that couldn't be fixed with a nice cage, suspension (ie koni 86's), and like 30 heim joints. (does anybody sell heim joint suspension arms for miata?)

without the cage the 240 gave a quite honorable showing at scca nationals this year (couple weeks back) - and this is miata territory.

actually, they were 1 cone away from 1st as you can see here:

Oh very nice. Next you come down i'll give you a ride in the viper down blimp road (no homo)

TJ, that was a truly great first post. Lol, sell the jeep!

I had a turbo KA S13 for a while (about a month) and didn't really like it. I echo 18psi's comments.

The interior is a lot bigger, but build quality is way cheaper. In addition, they aren't nearly as nimble or as fun. A Miata makes a 240 look like a Lincoln Town Car in terms of handling, I really just wasn't that impressed with it. They are super easy to slide and that's about it.

They also get worse mileage and seem to break a lot more. Aftermarket and support in general though is really big. I'd get in touch with the local 240 club and try and get some riding/driving done before you take the plunge. I wasn't all that impressed with mine, especially as a serious performance car.