m.net exchange (defended Savington LOL)
05-16-2008, 01:08 PM
#3
I'm a n00b to all the m.net banter, or the m.net automotive attitudes versus mt.net (perhaps someone can fill me in, but I think I've already figured out this is the forum where I "fit in"), but this is a topic I can't help but toss my .02 in on. I can't stand people/media/police that embrace the "speed kills" mentality. Speed is a force-multiplier, NOT the ultimate cause of an accident. Speed might be the reason a person was killed, or more severely injured in the event of a collision, but IMO, accidents aren't CAUSED by speed. It's either driver distraction, inexperience or mechanical failure. I hate it when you hear someone in the news say, "speed was a factor," or "speed was to blame." No it wasn't, the person was just either a shitty driver (distracted or inexperienced), or something broke (bald tires seem to be a big "mechanical failure," but I think that comes back to the shitty driver thing).
It's almost like the government wants the general public to believe that your car will automatically start barrel-rolling at 120mph. If driver licenses were taken more seriously, this wouldn't be such a big deal. Spend taxpayer money on more driver training, not paying a cop on every corner to write speeding tickets, in an attempt to stop these senseless fatal accidents where "speed is to blame." Anyway, the "speed-related" accidents caused by the shitty drivers are making the "good" drivers take the blame (in the form of a ticket) for when they do something such as push the speed limit while passing. But the "good" drivers aren't the ones causing the accidents, they're the ones who know car control well enough to avoid them. *sigh* /rant_off
Can I get an amen?
It's almost like the government wants the general public to believe that your car will automatically start barrel-rolling at 120mph. If driver licenses were taken more seriously, this wouldn't be such a big deal. Spend taxpayer money on more driver training, not paying a cop on every corner to write speeding tickets, in an attempt to stop these senseless fatal accidents where "speed is to blame." Anyway, the "speed-related" accidents caused by the shitty drivers are making the "good" drivers take the blame (in the form of a ticket) for when they do something such as push the speed limit while passing. But the "good" drivers aren't the ones causing the accidents, they're the ones who know car control well enough to avoid them. *sigh* /rant_off
Can I get an amen?
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05-16-2008, 01:52 PM
#6
Bradlee,
There is another cause that is compounded by speed. Other cars. Miata's are small. We don't get seen. Not as bad as motorcycles but similar concept. If you are buzzing past 50mph traffic at 90 and someone pulls over into you, good driver, poor driver, alert or not speed is contributing to your difficulties.
Other issue is the good driver/ bad driver argument. How do you judge who is good and who is bad?
Alert = good. Eating a hamburger combing your hair talking on the cell phone while reading the paper kinda people = bad.
The problem is what else constitutes good/bad. It's easy to say that good drivers obey traffic laws (within reason - no one should do 55 if the pace of traffic is 70). It's easy to say good drivers drive in a manner prudent to the driving conditions and traffic. It's easy to say good drivers have spent time and effort to improve skills and control through track events, skid classes, HPDE, autocross and such.
The problem is polls consitently show that over 80% of male drivers consider themselves above average or excellent drivers. We all know this can't be true. So who is an accurate judge of whether you are a "good" driver or not? The A-hole that just swung across 3 lanes without signalling in heavy traffic, cutting you off, giving you the finger with a smoke in one hand and a big gulp in the other thinks he's Mario Andretti good. Is he? I don't think so. I'd likely kill him at the track. Does that make me a "good" driver?
A "good" driver in my book know's his/ her limitations but also recognizes the idiocy of others and drives appropriately.
Do I drive like a granny? NO! I drive like an A-hole.
There is another cause that is compounded by speed. Other cars. Miata's are small. We don't get seen. Not as bad as motorcycles but similar concept. If you are buzzing past 50mph traffic at 90 and someone pulls over into you, good driver, poor driver, alert or not speed is contributing to your difficulties.
Other issue is the good driver/ bad driver argument. How do you judge who is good and who is bad?
Alert = good. Eating a hamburger combing your hair talking on the cell phone while reading the paper kinda people = bad.
The problem is what else constitutes good/bad. It's easy to say that good drivers obey traffic laws (within reason - no one should do 55 if the pace of traffic is 70). It's easy to say good drivers drive in a manner prudent to the driving conditions and traffic. It's easy to say good drivers have spent time and effort to improve skills and control through track events, skid classes, HPDE, autocross and such.
The problem is polls consitently show that over 80% of male drivers consider themselves above average or excellent drivers. We all know this can't be true. So who is an accurate judge of whether you are a "good" driver or not? The A-hole that just swung across 3 lanes without signalling in heavy traffic, cutting you off, giving you the finger with a smoke in one hand and a big gulp in the other thinks he's Mario Andretti good. Is he? I don't think so. I'd likely kill him at the track. Does that make me a "good" driver?
A "good" driver in my book know's his/ her limitations but also recognizes the idiocy of others and drives appropriately.
Do I drive like a granny? NO! I drive like an A-hole.
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05-16-2008, 03:05 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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BTW here's a good resource on speed:
http://www.motorists.org/speedlimits/
The NMA are great. They fight for motorists' freedoms. I'm a paying member.
http://www.motorists.org/speedlimits/
The NMA are great. They fight for motorists' freedoms. I'm a paying member.
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05-16-2008, 03:23 PM
#10
cueball,
Very good points! Yeah, I drive like an a-hole most of the time, too. But a safe, defensive a-hole. That's why I put "good" in quotes. I know everyone thinks they're doing just a fantastic job behind the wheel. It's not that track events necessarily make you "good," but at least those drivers have a pretty good grasp of car control and can save their *** (and possibly someone else's) in the event of a slide, emergency stop or whatever.
That pretty much sums it up. The drivers who think they're good (but haven't experienced situations to be able to determine if they're good or not) don't know the limitations of themselves and their vehicles. "Bad" drivers can still be defensive enough to avoid other drivers, but it's still the good drivers that know just how hard they can push the limits when faced with situations where they must react to avoid another driver.
Very good points! Yeah, I drive like an a-hole most of the time, too. But a safe, defensive a-hole. That's why I put "good" in quotes. I know everyone thinks they're doing just a fantastic job behind the wheel. It's not that track events necessarily make you "good," but at least those drivers have a pretty good grasp of car control and can save their *** (and possibly someone else's) in the event of a slide, emergency stop or whatever.
That pretty much sums it up. The drivers who think they're good (but haven't experienced situations to be able to determine if they're good or not) don't know the limitations of themselves and their vehicles. "Bad" drivers can still be defensive enough to avoid other drivers, but it's still the good drivers that know just how hard they can push the limits when faced with situations where they must react to avoid another driver.
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05-16-2008, 05:00 PM
#11
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I don't mind slow pokes if THEY STAY OUT OF MY WAY.
The worst slowpokes are the militant hall-monitor holier-than-thou types like that 'tard on m.net seems to be.
LOL militant... reminds me of a story about militant lesbians...
The worst slowpokes are the militant hall-monitor holier-than-thou types like that 'tard on m.net seems to be.
LOL militant... reminds me of a story about militant lesbians...
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05-17-2008, 11:49 AM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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The biggest and most dangerous a-holes are the f*ckers that drive slow and then speed up to block you when you try to pass. Hey if you want to drive slow drive slow. Just get the f out of the way.
One factor about speed though...hitting a corner at 45 mph and it feels fine. Hit that same corner at 46.5 mph and the tires let loose...And its shitty drivers that don't recognize the signs of a car/tires getting loose and then they wreck.
A lot of the time, its a fine line between traction and no traction. To anyone who has been on a track..and wrecked...they know what I mean.
Mandatory track schools to have a drivers license in my mind...then up the speed limits...
Posted by a Five Oh BTW
One factor about speed though...hitting a corner at 45 mph and it feels fine. Hit that same corner at 46.5 mph and the tires let loose...And its shitty drivers that don't recognize the signs of a car/tires getting loose and then they wreck.
A lot of the time, its a fine line between traction and no traction. To anyone who has been on a track..and wrecked...they know what I mean.
Mandatory track schools to have a drivers license in my mind...then up the speed limits...
Posted by a Five Oh BTW
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