Perhaps an entirely new group of fan boys to offend?
05-30-2007, 08:12 PM
#4
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I keep my nose out of the SC business....but I've never understood the lack of timing and fueling with all the miata superchargers out there....I dunno how many "pinging at 2psi" threads I've seen....
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05-30-2007, 09:09 PM
#5
There are very few people like me for instance who not happy with what I have and want more. Most of the people that buy the FFS Coldside kits (for example) are the "set it and forget it" types. Most of those people don't need timing control and probably don't need the fueling control.
Is the MS better than the PC Pro? Better is a subjective term. A better (pun) and more objective question might be, "Does it have more features?" - absolutely. Specifically, is it "better" for that guy with the M45? That all depends on what he is interested in.
Also, note that my car is running a 65mm/115mm combo today when last year, I was running 65mm/100mm and pinging like crazy. I still don't have any timing control. Do I need one? I think I will now that I want just a little more power (LOL).
Lastly, be careful how you (not you brain) throw the term "fan boy" around. You're going to be using that term a lot if you tag me or that thread as "fan boy". Case in point - I have a turbo and want to know if I can use it help CORKEY OR STEPH.
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05-30-2007, 10:39 PM
#7
"So, after all of that, the conclusion is that yes, you would need four bigger injectors to up the boost on a 1.6 with the MS system but more fueling is already included with the PC-Pro setup. Further, no you don't need two PC-Pro's on a 1.6. Finally, yes, to get the advantage of knock sensing on a 1.6 you would have to buy a knock sensor for the MS because its not included."
so if I understand that right... the PC-Pro has magical powers and can make a fuel injector flow more at the same pressure and duty cycle than the MS. No wonder they are charging so much for the unit.
so if I understand that right... the PC-Pro has magical powers and can make a fuel injector flow more at the same pressure and duty cycle than the MS. No wonder they are charging so much for the unit.
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05-30-2007, 10:50 PM
#8
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Chuck I see the PCPro having a place in certain applicatons. It's a good match for you OBDII guys with factory knock detection systems, non return rails, and a decent intake tract.
The 90-93 has none of those things. A BEGi FMU would do what the PCPro does in this case, for $300 less. However, this guy can spend the same amount he budgeted, but get a better solution that should net him significantly more safety and more power. It's a no brainer. If I knew how to get 10-15 more hp out of your motor without you spending extra $$, with no downside, wouldn't you want me to tell you?
Me be careful how I throw around "fan boy"? Please. Your example doesn't make sense either. I've never knocked your beloved FFS. I think they offer excellent hardware and great customer service. But they are severely limited in the engine management department. SC guys in general seem to be ignorant to engine management... and wonder why their cars don't make good power.
Anyway, it's obvious that the moss guy has no clue what he's talking about at all. And I don't think Tom is up to speed on engine management...
The 90-93 has none of those things. A BEGi FMU would do what the PCPro does in this case, for $300 less. However, this guy can spend the same amount he budgeted, but get a better solution that should net him significantly more safety and more power. It's a no brainer. If I knew how to get 10-15 more hp out of your motor without you spending extra $$, with no downside, wouldn't you want me to tell you?
Me be careful how I throw around "fan boy"? Please. Your example doesn't make sense either. I've never knocked your beloved FFS. I think they offer excellent hardware and great customer service. But they are severely limited in the engine management department. SC guys in general seem to be ignorant to engine management... and wonder why their cars don't make good power.
Anyway, it's obvious that the moss guy has no clue what he's talking about at all. And I don't think Tom is up to speed on engine management...
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have you seen the two PCs installed before :gay:
05-31-2007, 12:36 AM
#10
My end goals are modest, so I don't need a stand alone.
Is the BeGi FMU piggyback? If so, I didn't see where you mentioned that.
Also, where did I accuse you or anyone else of "knocking" FFS?
Tom and I have had an ongoing discussion of about someone ALWAYS recommends a stand-alone as THE solution for everyone. It just isn't in all cases. Yes, it ALWAYS has more features, and it ALWAYS has the ability to squeeze more HP. But that's not what the OP was asking about.
I also agree and said so in my last post that in GENERAL, SC guys are ignorant about engine management. I know I am because a full stand-alone is not what I want. It may be something I want in the future, but not now.
Lastly, a stand-alone is just not for everyone, that's all.
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05-31-2007, 08:16 AM
#12
The FMU is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator like what the M45 came with before the PC pro craze hit. No one has hit 200 whp on a m45 without a standalone and or some serius tunning and mods etc to my knowledge the m62 on the other hand is where the market should have landed years ago and i aplaude tom for bringing it to market as soon as the frigin bracket get done.
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05-31-2007, 10:43 AM
#16
Lots of people could be accused of being fan boys. People in glass houses and all that.
Bottom line is that just because something is better doesn't mean it is appropriate in every case. Might as well start arguing the merits of a turbo over a supercharger.
I think the limitations of the hardware are what drives most M45 users to not explore more complex fuel managment.
Bottom line is that just because something is better doesn't mean it is appropriate in every case. Might as well start arguing the merits of a turbo over a supercharger.
I think the limitations of the hardware are what drives most M45 users to not explore more complex fuel managment.
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05-31-2007, 11:33 AM
#17
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Chuck, the OP is a little cost conscious. I don't think he realized that there is a strong standalone out there at a piggyback price. But he is looking for competent engine management for his FI track car. Wouldn't he be better off with something that will make more power, with timing control and active knock sensing?
Jay, you may be right. The hardware is limited. However if these guys want to get away from stone age EM, they'll start getting better results.
It's a shame that all those guys who will purchase the FFS 1.6 mp62 kit are going to get PCPros and retard their timing. Tom should open up his eyes, so his customers can make real power, safely.
Jay, you may be right. The hardware is limited. However if these guys want to get away from stone age EM, they'll start getting better results.
It's a shame that all those guys who will purchase the FFS 1.6 mp62 kit are going to get PCPros and retard their timing. Tom should open up his eyes, so his customers can make real power, safely.
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05-31-2007, 12:20 PM
#18
They wont retard there timming he will go for the best maintainable HP on stock timming. Chuckerants ran all his tests on stock timming etc. This is not a greddy kit they wont need to do the retard thing, the mp62 is effecient enough to not make a whole lot of heat at modest boost levels.
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05-31-2007, 12:42 PM
#19
Chuck, the OP is a little cost conscious. I don't think he realized that there is a strong standalone out there at a piggyback price. But he is looking for competent engine management for his FI track car. Wouldn't he be better off with something that will make more power, with timing control and active knock sensing?
Your rabid enthusiasm for your particular EMS of choice can be mistaken for having an adgenda or maybe an axe to grind. I know that you are just really excited about the MSPNP, others see it as being a fan boy. Which is ironic considering the name of this thread
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