Being a landlord is overrated... smokers.
 

To make a long story short, I've just found out that the renters in my house (the house I plan to live in long-term someday) are smokers. A quick review of our application and lease mention nothing about a non-smoking clause... so, bad on me and will be remedied for future renters. And of course they failed to mention proactively that they were smokers. We are new landlords and thought that renting to military members (a VERY senior officer in this case) meant that we wouldn't have to worry about this kind of bullshit. I find it borderline dishonorable that they withheld this information. I've known a lot of smokers who are very conscious about how disgusting their shit is and at least make an effort... and a lot of smokers who are basically "fuck you if you don't like it".

We're already coming up with a financial gameplan that involves brand new carpet throughout the upstairs and repainting the ENTIRE house, in addition to whatever extensive deep-cleaning we may have to do. I think I'm looking at about $6k, but hope I can get away with just a deep-cleaning. But I know it will be FUCKING YEARS before the smell is completely gone.

In any case, assuming 2 years of a pack-a-day in a 2400sqft house, painted walls, carpet upstairs, Pergo downstairs... aside from replacing the entire interior of the house, what can I do? Are there companies that specialize in this shit?

Ugh, that sucks, man. In the five or so years that I smoke, I only ever smoked a handful of cigarettes indoors because the smell made me sick.

But, to answer your question, yes, there are companies that specialize in "restoring" home interiors.

Also:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4235953AAednXx

If you're going to drop $6k, try this at the very least:

http://www.ozonesolutions.com/

You can rent the largest one they have for $300 for a week. I haven't personally used one, but I've been researching these. Apparently they are really good for removing smoke smells from cars and they're commonly used at used car dealers. You should probably run it with the windows closed while the tenants are sleeping. Good luck, there's nothing worse than an awful smell in your home.

If the house has central air... have the ducts cleaned. Makes a big difference.

Clean the ducts, have the floors steam cleaned, wash the walls/windows, Febreeze, and keep the house open with fans in the windows for a few days. Its worked for the places we've had to de-smoke

Smokers fuck up everything and its gross.

Yes, get the ducts cleaned, we used Sears on our last 2 places. Makes a big difference but isn't cheap here, we spent $900 and $1300. Both times opted for furnace cleaning and ac cleaning as well. So yea, Rennkafer is bang on with that advice. It makes a MASSIVE difference.

chpmnsws6 is right with washing. Wash what you can, paint the rest, clean drapes if you got em. Carpets are a rip out IMO. The current place we have almost painted all of it and have battled nicotine leaking through even on the primer (we didnt wash all the walls).

As for being a landlord to smokers. We had rented our one place (basement apartment) to a guy who knew the rules, signed on the dotted line etc. We came to find out he was smoking in the basement apartment. I finally caught him red handed one day and as it was the 2nd strike I asked him to leave that weekend. He did pack his shit and leave. What a dirty cock for doing what he did. We cut that guy so much slack, it was blatant disrespect.

I am not sure if there are laws about discriminating against smokers and or rules or regulations in the tenant landlord act. I know in Canada we found ways to circumvent the TLA when renting basement apartments so it was never an issue of tossing someone out..... generally tossing people out came down to when I had enough of them.

In my experience, we have only had 1 good tenant who always paid on time, respected the house rules and brought home hot babes. The rest, including friends I have let stay all resulted in massive douchery on their part.

I want to live in Canada, rent me a place Rick. Non smoker :wavey:

Why would you want to live in Canada?

Why not? A change of scenery would be nice for me. Free health care perhaps?

Are you an officer Sam? If so, just rent to enlisted men.

You can charge him for any damage, that includes smells and stains from smoking. It's similar to saying "well there is no clause for smearing shit all over the walls" I smoke, and I'll be the first to tell you its freaking nasty. I would never smoke in my house.

I'll switch you spots...from November to April

My last tenants made one of the room in my rental into a "smoking" room. This was only during 6 months and looking at the walls/ceiling/light switches you can see the gum and general of colour of the entire room.

Unfortunately, tenants do not have to tell you they smoke (if you don't ask), and even if they are "smokers" you can't legally not rent to them because of it. But you can enforce any no smoking rule you like once they do move in.

And this is sad for me to say, but unless you have a designated smoking area that is supervised, come the colder/winter months, I have NEVER seen a smoker yet follow rules. Places to smoke inside/outside become rampant. Most choose to crank your precious heat included apartment while opening a window or choose a corner spot like the furnace room. They're like rats....only eviction can get rid of them. After you evict them and keep the damage deposit. You'll still be out big $$ because you'll have to repaint the apartment and be left with no tenants because the renting "season" is finished.

/rant.


Cheers!

As a smoker, I've always followed rules. Never smoke in an apartment/rental. Don't smoke in my own house. Outside only....even when it's 25*F outside, I'll toss on a jacket and shoes and deal with the cold. Most of the time I even avoid tossing my butts just anywhere and carry them to the garbage can in the garage.

25F isn't even cold yet(I haven't even thrown on a jacket yet in that weather).... you'd be hanging out the window smoking tossing your butts out in no time... then you'd move out and I'd be left with a room that smelled of smoke and was stained along with butts all over the driveway/lawn. I mean, you pay good money in rent to be able to do that, who cares about the "rules", you can bend them a little.

Absolutely. I'm already planning on keeping the entire security deposit as damages. I've done some homework and there is almost zero "rules" on what the landlord can/can't claim is "damages". I didn't know before, but the landlord can pretty much say anything he wants and keep your deposit... something to think about. Works in my favor this time.

True, "legally", tenants don't have to tell you that they smoke if you don't ask... as in, they don't have to volunteer the info. But what is legally required and what is morally dishonest is not a fine line. Within the military "well, you didn't tell me I couldn't do it" usually instantly loses you the respect of your peers... that kind of shit gets people killed or causes more work for everybody when you fuck it up. As I said, I didn't expect to be outright lied to by a military renter about something that causes permanent long-term damage to the property. And any honorable military officer would have fucking told he intended to smoke in the house. And he knows damn well that not speaking up is the same as lying from a moral/honor point of view. So fuck that guy.

And as for not renting to them... the law has repeatedly said that smokers are not protected in any way when it comes to renting... so you most certainly may "not rent to them" because of smoking. Additionally, in our future rental application, there will be a "do you smoke" question and we will refuse to rent because of it. There will also be an entire page of a smoking clause in the rental agreement. I can't believe I missed that shit in all the homework I did.

In the end, I know we can get the smell out, it's just a matter of money. Repainting/carpeting/extreme-deep-cleaning will work for a price. Their deposit will offset some of it, but the place will still have to sit empty and open for a period of time and that will hurt.

I'm really hoping the I can move back in to the house on my next set of orders so I don't have to go through the rental bullshit again, and we'd get to take advantage of all the newness. The whole thing just fucking sucks, and there's nothing I can do about since it is all "legal" on their end. They've got over a year left on the lease... fuck.

25F is cold enough for Atlanta. Yes, I know other places get cold, this is not a pissing contest.

Its true, smokers are like rats. The one guy used to use our furnace room and the bathroom. Problem was when the heat was on it was blowing it through the house.

I can smell the smokers below me in my apartment. They smoke outside... but I have my windows open and it floats up and into my bedroom. Annoying as shit. I honestly hate smokers. So dirty.

all the haters in this thread make me want to light up.

perhaps y'all just hang with the wrong type of smokers. I smoked a pack a day (usually more) for about five years and most people hadn't the slightest indication that I did if they hadn't seen my burn one. I guess personal hygiene goes a long way.

We're talking about cigarettes, not cock.

lol

It depends on the type of cigarettes. Light ones barely leave a smell. My girlfriend smokes in my car and you can't smell it.

BS. Ask 10 random non-smokers and I bet 9 of them will smell it.

I'm not saying the light cigarettes are odorless. I'm saying they smell a lot less than regular cigarettes. Let some guy smoke regular marlboros once in my jeep, smelled that shit for 2 days.

In comparison, in my miata with fixed-back seats, the smell of sweat after a couple of days of autocross is much stronger than after 1-2 light cigarettes.

You should alter your diet and talk to your physician about your odor if its that strong.

Noted for truth. I can smell someone smoking 3 cars up at an intersection. Smoking is a thing of the past.... and none too soon!

it's only immoral if he had the expectation that you did not want someone smoking in the house. The odor isn't permanent. Almost every house made before the 90s had someone smoking indoors.

Let the occupant know that pervasive lingering odors, like smoke, effect the rentability of the property and therefore will be considered as damage. If they were smart they'd take reasonable action to eliminate the odor prior to moving out. Washing the walls, not smoking inside the month before the term ends, and leaving the windows open with fans to circulate air will work wonders.

Edit: Soviet, that's bullshit. There is no difference in the tobacco between light and full flavor cigarettes. The difference is the amount of air allowed to mix with the smoke while drawing. This can come from more porous wrapping paper or perforations in the paper or filter.

This is bullshit logic. He knew damned fucking well that I wouldn't want people smoking in the house because NOBODY wants people smoking in their house. They knew we weren't smokers and a lot of our discussions centered around how well they would take care of the house because we'd probably be moving back in after them. We didn't want "renters" and they didn't want to move into a "rental". They wanted to move into someones "home", and we wanted somebody who would take care of our home like they would their own.

They INTENTIONALLY did not mention that they smoked because they knew that 99% of people who own their home and rent it do not want it smoked in, so the fuckers just kept their mouths shut. The fact that we forgot to put it in the application/lease because we're new to land-lording legally relieves them of the responsibility of telling us, and you can argue legal shit as far as you can throw a gavel, but this guy is a 30+ year military officer renting a home from another officer... and we do eachother better than that.

And even if this was just 2 regular civilian dudes with nothing in common, it's a fucking scumbag thing to do.

And no, a lite cleaning will not remove the stench of long-term smoking. If not done properly and thoroughly it takes years for the odor to "dissipate" on it's own. And to a family with children looking to rent a house, even the slightest little hint of cigarette smoke constitutes "stench". It will drive away 95% of our target demographic of renters. Even if there was ZERO smell at all, some people would choose not to bring their children into a home that they knew the previous renters smoked in. It's a big fucking deal.

Carpets cleaned or outright replaced.
Every single painted surface in the place washed, sanded, and repainted, walls/ceilings/doors/etc.
HVAC system sanitized.
Windows and window frames washed.
Insides of all cabinetry, closets, drawers, and other areas.
Applicances cleaned.
Etc...
Then you open the place up for a week or so and pray it works.

To do this 100% right the first time and be done with it, I'm looking at about $6k depending on whether or not I need to replace the carpets.

tl:dr Burn the house down with them in it

If they've still got a year or so left on the lease, have you asked them to immediately stop smoking inside? If they stop now, you may not have to spend all that money to get the smell out. You could probably get away with a carpet cleaner, duct cleaning, and washing the walls.

bitch

Watch out for water damage. That will fuck shit up. Check every single pipe connection into the house. Do it yourself if you need to.

Therein lies the problem.

If I mention it, then I open up the whole bag. Other than the smoking, they've been awesome renters. They fix the little things, do touch-up paint, minor plumbing, have rebuilt part of the deck, etc... they really are awesome.

If I mention the smoking, they could just say no, and then we're not on such great terms anymore. They wouldn't have rented the house if they couldn't smoke in it I'm sure.

Just to make sure things keep going as smoothly as they have been, I'm not going to bring it up. It's a good lesson for the future.

Unfortunately...that is the best solution...
Happy tenants are good tenants

Couldn’t be truer. And what you’re saying is even more applicable when it comes to selling the property. Stinky houses do not sell easily, which, depending on the value of the home, can end up meaning a lot of dough. Offensive odors fuck with buyers’ and renters’ emotions - especially women - and they just shut down and move on with their search. I’ve been sideline selling homes as an agent for a brief six years and I’ve seen this happen many, many times. Another one I’ve seen queer a home’s value (or rentability) is heavy curry smell or other smells from folks who do a lot of wok cookery. Also, as mentioned, a happy tenant usually means a happy landlord, but I would never do a lease for more than 6 months. Some of these scumbags are very good at gaming the rental laws. So the best bet is to stay informed about the laws and your rights, interview the piss out of them, do extensive background checks on all parties, and get ready to sue if shit goes sideways. Or avoid the headache and just cough up the ~10% to farm it out to a property manager.

We bought our house in short sale, seller was a nice lady with a gaggle of extended illegal family/ies in her house. There was enough delay on the bank's part to agree to the terms (actually two banks, because they also took out a loan for the 10% down in addition to their 3/1 ARM) but then the seller kept trying to push back the closing date. Then a week before we are due to sign papers, my agent tells me the seller is requesting that we rent the house back to them for a couple weeks until they find a place to live. The fuck?!? You've known for months that this was coming and have had more than ample time to make arrangements. And now you think I'll be dumb enough to establish a landlord-tenant relationship with someone who couldn't pay their mortgage, so you can game the legal system and live there a few more months on my dime? Fuck that noise.

Anyway, more to the point of this thread, the house had 1980s vintage wallpaper that we spent days stripping off, pulled all the carpet, bought all new kitchen appliances, etc. We could handle all of that crap so we had a high tolerance for a house needing some work, but my wife would absolutely have walked away if there was any cigarette aroma. It's a non-starter for a whole lot of people. Our house had no objectionable aromas, and the previous occupants were even nice enough to leave us a midget porn DVD.

Any room that was white, will have a hint of yellow.
any light switch/plug etc, will be yellow and have unreacheable gunk inside it.

The house WILL need paint on everything (mouldings/walls/ceiling...) due to smoking.

1000's will be spent.

Been there.....it sucks....damage deposit doesn't even start to cover it and small claims court is worthless.

I probably shouldn't say this but I'm sorry. It sounds to me like you're more interested in bitching about the problem than actually doing anything about it. Why don't you just ask them nicely if they wouldn't mind smoking outside? Calm down before you go talk to them though. Some people really are not as smart as you'd think. Also, people were raised in different ways and have different opinions as to what is respectable and disrespectable. If they're taking the time and $ to fix little stuff then they're obviously trying to do you right.

That's honestly pretty bad. I'm a smoker and I still sympathize with you about your house. I smoke outside on my patio, wouldn't ever dream of smoking in a house even if the owner was OK with it. You might as well jsut pour mustard and ketchup all over the carpets and sharpie all the walls if you're OK with smoking in a house.
It's just common courtesy to let your landlord know you smoke even if it's only done outside. I let my apartments know and they just asked me to use an ash tray on the patio; which is more than sensible because I hate picking up other people's butts.

I think some of yall are a little to sensitive. Ive had to clean a few of my friends houses that where big party houses and all of which were smoked in. I dont smoke and after a good cleaning and washing couldnt smell a thing.

My parents about 15 years ago had a few properties they rented, 2 seasonal and 1 year round house in Toronto. The bad times outweighed the good they would tell me.

They one rented to some people who came over from NFLD. The first few months went really well, paid on time, the people settled in and made it their home. They had kids, cars and money (not saying income here...). What i remember is that near october they stopped payment for rent on the house. They stopped paying for water and hyrdo and even Bell (phone). My parents gave them break after break and started to get worried when more people moved into the house and the house started getting holes in the walls, windows broke, doors ripped off hinges, cars parked on the lawn etc. It took 8 months to get them out, hydro wouldnt cut power, same with water and though the peoples names were on the bills, the bills were associated with the property so my parents were on the hook. The people up and left one day taking everything with them including the doors, blinds, appliances etc and of course didnt pay. They left on their own. My parents had gone to the courts and were working on getting an agent to evict them.

Soon after fixing the house up to a rentable state my folks took in a lady and her partner (lesbians.. aww yea but no.. butchy). They were both in the trades and offered to do work on the house in return for cheaper rent. My parents went for it and they did magnificent work. Only when the 1 partner got sick and laid off did they opt to downsize to an apartment, my parents then sold.


The 1 season place my folks often rented for free or for minimal. Its on the water and was 1400 sq feet. A few years back i had to go upto it and check on it. When I arrived with the wife and got closer to the front door i could smell a stench of nasty. Opened the door and turned around and gagged. The people who rented the place flipped the breaker on the house when they left which left everything off, freezers, sump, fridge etc. It was one of the worst clean ups ever, we spent hours cleaning up and i barfed a few times. I was so angry about it that i was about to just leave. Idiots. They destroyed all sortsa meats that were in the freezer, shitloads of steaks etc.

Renting can be a pain. I believe in renting basements, shared entrance and laundry so I do not have to live by the TLA and I can kick people out. Sometimes sharing sucks, actually, it always sucks but it does help avoid some idiot making you his bitch.

For fucks sake man, the guy fucked me. These people have already shown to what level they can be trusted. There is nothing I can do but make it worse. They were looking for a house they could smoke in. They found mine. They found it because I'm a dumbass. There is no way in hell they'd just say "Oh, my bad, didn't know you don't like your house being smoked it. Why didn't you just say so? We'll go smoke outside all winter when it's 30* out, no problem." Yah, I'm sure it's just a big misunderstanding. NO. This guy, no matter how he was raised, has spent almost 40yrs in the US Military. He knows exactly what is and is not respectable. He chose to take advantage of me by simply keeping his mouth shut and it's my own fucking fault. And the fact that they're taking good care of the house otherwise is because they've got really nice shit and enjoy living in a nice place... they're just smokers.

My best and only course of action now is to just deal with it and learn from it.

You're not a 35yr old mother of 2 who's on her 4th military move in 6 years. Your version of "couldn't smell a thing" and hers... well, let's just say she's gonna be little more sensitive.

And truth be told, YES, I am bitching about it... mostly because that's all I can do. I'd love to tell you that I'm in the process of enforcing an eviction because of violation of the smoking clause... but I don't have a smoking clause. So it's time to bitch, the internet is good like that.

Hopefully somebody here besides me learns a little bit of something.

I've learned not to ever rent to people because people are evil, conniving dicks who will do anything to screw you.

Case in point: About an hour ago my brother and I met a guy to sell my bro's guitar peddle. The dude rolls up 45+ minutes late, tries the thing out, likes it and decides that he does in fact want it. My bro had it up for $50 and then $40, but not knowing if the guy saw the $50 ad or the $40 add and after making us wait almost an hour, after he said he'd be there in 15 minutes, my bro decided to try for $50. The guy says "It's $35 right?", bro responds with "No, I think I had it up for 50" (not exact quote here) to which dumbnuts responds in an annoyed tone, "not naw, the ad sad $40", fair enough, he saw the second add and thus the price is $40. Now numbnuts proceeds to hand my brother $35 and goes to get some more cash from his ugly girlfriend/sister/wife, and comes back with $4. So he gets irritated when my brother tries to get $50 even though numbnuts tries to get it for $35, and knowing how much it is, he doesn't bring enough money to pay for it. Piece of shit. :vash:

Sorry for thread-jacking.
I know, coolstorybro.jpg

So you try to milk as much money out of the guy as possible. And get mad when he tries to bargain and get it for less. Seems like you are no better than him.

this thread makes me not want to buy a multi-family house.

Or you just keep wife #1 in one part, wife #2 in a different part, and the girlfriend in the third part of the multi-family house.

I really want a 3 family.. I'm still bummed the deal fell through for one I was looking at a few months ago. Cheap ass sellers