Porsche says Nissan is lying.
09-30-2008, 03:41 PM
#1
Porsche says Nissan is lying.
http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...t_nurburgring/
Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.
It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.
"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.
"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."
He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.
Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.
He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.
"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.
Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.
But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.
"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.
"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."
In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.
"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.
It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.
"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.
"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."
He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.
Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.
He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.
"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.
Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.
But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.
"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.
"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."
In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.
"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
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09-30-2008, 05:29 PM
#2
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Interesting. Had to skim it just now, but will be paying attention to this as everything proresses. I want to see Nissan's retort. Oh, and they're claims are the same that mine were when Nissan was flashing their numbers around.
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09-30-2008, 05:35 PM
#3
I had already heard that Nissan had used slicks and a custom program for both the suspension and the AWD system to get that time. One of their engineers had mentioned it right after they released the time to the public. I thought that was it, but I guess someone refutted it and I never saw it. Now it is back into discussion.
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09-30-2008, 05:37 PM
#4
C&D or R&T has tested 4 or 5 GTr's now. They found big differences in performance. Apparently the early production and pre production cars were getting several different ECU settings altering performance by quite a bit. Nissan and the magazine says that has all been settled out and is standardized now but it certainly makes Nissan's lap times questionable. Exactly what program was it running and how does that compare the the current production cars?
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09-30-2008, 05:52 PM
#6
None of the starts on the 'Ring are from a stop. They don't let you stop on the track. They normally start right after the hard right hander that is the end of the lap on GT4. It keeps your speed low for the start, so it really keeps it even, and you have the immediate hard left afterwards, so you still can't get much of a speed advantage.
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09-30-2008, 07:43 PM
#12
Anyone have a lap time for the GT2? If we are gonna compare the Viper ACR to a Porsche, lets make sure it's in the same league. The GT3 was 4 seconds faster than the Turbo, so the GT2 would have to do a few seconds faster than the GT3. Hell, a GT2 is almost 2 seconds faster around MSR than a GT3, and it's only 3.1 miles long. Maybe it's as fast as the ACR?
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09-30-2008, 08:30 PM
#14
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I don't give a **** if the GTR was 10 seconds to two minutes faster around the ring... Porsche > *.nissan IMHO. 911s are ******* sexy sexy beasts, have been since their inception.
Damn... Thats an insult to Scions..
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09-30-2008, 08:33 PM
#15
I agree, who gives a damn. How often you gonna drive that fast anyway? I agree with elesjuan, all Porsches are pure sex.
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10-01-2008, 11:44 AM
#17
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Having had the chance to drive cars for a dealership that sold Porsche's, Nissans, Infiniti's, and a couple others, I can tell you that a Porsche would be FAR more fun and exciting than any Nissan. Even if its a Boxster.
I particularly like the Cayman and the way it drives, but my love for convertibles has me head over heals for a Boxster S. Now a 911 cab? Sex...
I particularly like the Cayman and the way it drives, but my love for convertibles has me head over heals for a Boxster S. Now a 911 cab? Sex...
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10-01-2008, 11:56 AM
#18
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I read somewhere that the GT-R had R compound tires with groves cut in them, lowered the car quite a bit, flashed the ECU, etc.
Chevy called BS too and brought the ZR1 in STOCK form and beat the GT-R time by a few seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o pretty cool...that guy is DRIVING that Vette.
Chevy called BS too and brought the ZR1 in STOCK form and beat the GT-R time by a few seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o pretty cool...that guy is DRIVING that Vette.
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10-01-2008, 12:36 PM
#19
Are there faster, cheaper cars out there than the Porsche? Sure there are. We could probably name them all, including our boosted Miatas. There is just something about Porsche ownership that is awesome.
Not taking anything away from Nissan, they build good cars. To me the GT-R is a true grand-tourer. I look at it and compare its size, weight and power to current GT's such as a Maser, DB9 or DBS, heck even the 599 GTB. They all have that front engine, long nose, hatch back, and seat 4, allegedly. They all do a lot of things really well, expensively, but don't really excel in any one aspect.
Not taking anything away from Nissan, they build good cars. To me the GT-R is a true grand-tourer. I look at it and compare its size, weight and power to current GT's such as a Maser, DB9 or DBS, heck even the 599 GTB. They all have that front engine, long nose, hatch back, and seat 4, allegedly. They all do a lot of things really well, expensively, but don't really excel in any one aspect.
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