Does anyone actually use calculus?
 

So, after studying 4 nights straight and then getting bent over by my calc 2 test, I'm really considering changing my major.

I'm currently in Manufacturing Engineering, which requires that I take Calc 1, Calc 2, Stats, and Differential Equations, which I'm told is much worse than calc 2.

I'm thinking of changing my major to Engineering Technology for a Mechanical Engineering degree, which only requires Calc 1.

My dad is a retired ME from Briggs and Stratton, and he always points out that of the 200-some engineers working there.... not a single one used calculus in their occupation.

No you will probably never need to use calculus again. In fact, I can't remember most of what I learned in Calc, and I took it through the multi-variable stuff.

The point of taking the classes is not to remember the calc per se, but to teach you how to think. Your brain is a lot like a muscle in the fact that it needs to be trained to be strong.

It was hard as shit and frustrating, but if I had to do it again, I would.

Don't quit. Push through it. The path of most resistance can be rewarding.

Exactly.

Damn, my ME degree required up to cal 3 along with everything else you mentioned plus a lot more. Horray Eigen Values!

I have only used "regular" math since graduating in '02. I think EE's use it more. I know it does have applications in ME, but I personally haven't use it yet.

You will use it for some classes after those classes, and then you will learn (especially for diff eq) that there are tables that you can reference for solutions to most problems. The point is that you have to learn to crawl before you can walk. They want you to know where the "easy way" came from so that you can think more abstractly in the future. Thinking is why engineers are on the 2nd floor and the technicians are on the 1st floor.

haha, almost identical answers at almost the same time.

I think I agree with Ben. There's a computer program available to figure out almost anything these days, and most people I know only understand that data goes in, and an answer comes out. They either can't or don't want to understand the underlying theory or process that is involved in any problem. I think the fact that you're a member of this site and thus probably a DIYer means that you give a shit about how stuff works. College calculus blows and, no I've never had to use it in 20 years as an engineer. But I still more or less understand how it works, and I think the mental discipline required to work through shit like 2nd derivatives of transcendental equations has helped me get through everyday work shit.

However, keep in mind what Yates says about stuff above the line.

Reminds me of an old joke.

Q: What's the difference between a scientist and an engineer?

A: A scientist knows how to solve for x. An engineer knows which book the answer is in.

Those are pretty much the replies I was expecting. I think I wouldn't mind the class so much if we were able to use reference tables like neogenesis2004 talked about. My prof, an Indian woman who writes faster than I can think, insists that we memorize everything in this class, and that meant 32 different new equations for the aformentioned test. Maybe I can retake the class over the summer at a local tech school.

Sounds like a fortune cookie :gay:

Hey, don't surrender on passing yet - chances are your classmates aren't exactly dancing through either. I had a raw test average of 54(yes, out of 100) in Physical Chem, and ended up with a B on the curve!

The professor questioned our qualifications for college.

Unfortunately I don't believe she'll be curving the grades, at least she hasn't on anything yet, and we're 2/3 through the semester.

I'm a Manufacturing and Industrial Technology major. We only have to take Calc 1. I just got raped by my 2nd exam in there. Death to professors with bad chinese accents and no teaching skills.

I bought the book Calculus for Dummies a few weeks ago, and it actually helped with understanding the concepts behind the stuff we were doing, but it didn't really have examples for me to follow to actually figure out how to do the problems. The book required for the class just makes my head hurt.

My deal is I can do the problems in the book just fine most the time. If i can't the solutions manual helps me of course. We have online quizes and they destroy me though. There is nothing in the book like those questions and the exams are based off those quizes. If I didn't have a rifle teammate that was willing to help me I'd fail for sure.

I hate to sound like the stickler, but I really don't like the idea of so many professionals not using calculus. It's extraordinarily fundamental. All those computer programs mentioned use calculus, albeit numerical approximations, whether you like it or not. And those programs were all written by people who use calculus. On top of that, all of those pieces of software have limitations, and they will all choke if given the correct problem. The scariest thing, though, is when you DO get an answer, but it is wrong due to the user's lack of understanding (and I don't mean input error), but use the spat-out answer anyway. That to me is terrifying.

Anyway, I use calculus every working day. It's too basic not to use.

computer programs are nice--if you know how to interpret the answer you get from them and understand if it's right or not.

i used calculus not too long ago to make a formula for finding the volume of a quarter-toroid. (slice the top half of a donut along its peak so you have a quarter-rounded ring)

I also use it periodically for motion / vibration stuff. plus it helps to have it in the back of my brain for the speaker design hobby.

but do I use it at work? not much...

My circuits professor made a good joke about mathematicians vs engineers. If you ask a mathematician to calculate how long it will take for a capacitor to discharge he will tell you that it is never fully discharged (infinity). When you ask an engineer to calculate how long he will tell you that once its close to zero it is close enough. (RC)

I think it's pretty much a given that one way or another, we all use calculus. My point was that the grunt work of taking the courses lets you understand just what it is the computer is doing for you, so that the numbers or drawing or whatever has a real context. It sucks while you're going through it, but you understand later on when you see the practical applications.

Im a MET major, and I have to take tech calc I & II. Will I ever use it, probably not..., I'm just about to finish up Trig this semester, and move on to physics, statics, and maybe calc I. I would really give MET a second look, it is looked at very similarly as an ME, you get lots of hands on, and there isn't as much theory and math.
-Michael-

I hate calculus it is my only true failure. I just cant seem to wrap my brain around it. :dunno: GL man

Nothing is harder than calc 2. 2nd order diff equations are hard but are only about 25% of that class. The rest is...well not easy but not calc 2 hard.

I do use infinite series but only as numerical analysis short cuts. I also use the basic position/velocity/accel derivative but that's not exactly taxing. I use integration in the real-time apps I write but it's nothing like what I did in that class. Still, it's nice to know the theory when doing it. Hell, I guess I do use it.

I found Calc 2 and 3 to be very difficult but though Differential Equations was pretty straight forward. I think it mostly depends on the teacher.

Depends what you end up doing. On a daily basis I don't use it, the odd time you may have to use a little.

It really depends on what sector you end up in and what type of work you.

What type of job would you hope to get when you are done school?

It doesn't sound like he's in a position yet to know that answer to that question.

Yeah I'm only in my 2nd semester, freshman year :gay:

took cal in college. Use only basic math

Like others have said, stick with it and muscle through it, this time or when you retake the course.

You WILL use calculus. You will use it when you get hired for a good job that requires the degree you're going to get that includes calc. I had four semesters of calc and diff eq. Hated it. I've only used "nuts and bolts" calc a handful of times at work but it is often important to understand the theory to make accurate judgement calls. A lot of the work of getting a degree is showing you are willing to work hard and showing you are capable of learning.

BTW, save this thread on paper and refer to it the next time you feel like punting. A degree isn't the only path to success and it won't ensure your future, but it is well worth the (hard) effort. The first time you get paid enough in one month to buy a turbo Miata, you'll be glad you stuck it out.

haha, everytime I feel like giving up I just go talk to my advisor (they listen well) and then I remind myself of the average hiring pay of engineers from my school. Then I smile and continue to work :)

What figure did they give you out of curiousity and for what part of the country.

avg cpe makes 55-65K starting salary. I go to school in blacksburg which is a "small" town with a campus of 40-50K students and faculty. Most of the companies are either large corporations or smaller places from cities in neighboring states, and northern va. The avg hiring rate for a graduating engineer here is above 80% if I remember correctly.

It really depends where you plan to use thier degree. The only place Ive hear of it being used is in some gas and fluid flows, but thats only to get thinks into a workable form. (Energy Equation and such)

Dont Bail out. Im having trouble beloeving you can get a ABET degree in ME without going up to differential equations. You wouldn't be able to do heat transfer at all, or control systems, or something other class i cant remember *where they introduce transfer functions*

Yup just got a job making 56k, and and will be well over 100k in 3 years. I also had 3 jobs offers in one week. Engineering is awesome, as long as you can handle it.

Engineering gives you a way to think.

plus with a solid engineering degree you can debate car stuff with forum weenies.

Loki, for your sake I hope you're right, but expecting to double your salary in 3 years may be a bit far-fetched. A third-year engineer with only a BS isn't going to be in the 100k range unless you're bending over for the boss :ky:

I disagree. Depending on your location that is entirely possible with a job change. My uncle went from help desk to network admin to network engineer all within 5 yrs by switching jobs. Thats 5yrs from when he got his diploma. From ~40K to $130K per year. You just need to be in the right field.

And engineering just isn't it, unless you go management, but that generally isn't in the first 3 years.

And for every one of your uncle, there are 5 people still at network admin.

Don't become so complacent then and look for a better job......

I'm not complaining about my job. I'm doing just fine thank you. But I've had to hire a bunch of punk kids fresh out of their BS engineering degrees expecting to rise through the ranks like they're God's gift to the industry; thinking they can just forget anything that got through their thick skulls in undergrad and show all the experienced engineers what's up. Well, it doesn't happen often. And the ones that do rise quickly aren't normally the ones you'd expect. The ones who end up doing well are those that enter wanting to prove themselves, not waiting around on their thumbs to get promoted and given raises just because that's what they're expecting.

I'm sorry that you have had to hire those punk kids in the past. I am in no way saying I expect to double my salary that fast, but where I am from it is not just something I hear of once a year. It is a regular occurrence in northern va. I would be pretty damn happy with even $50k/year for a while, but at the same time I know that if I don't expect more for/from myself than I would ever get it. The way I see it is that you have to keep trying to get better things for yourself because they aren't usually going to come looking for you.

You've got a good attitude about it. Go after at it. Earn a raise. Don't expect it.

Nope, but definitely over 100k. You should look for a new field :)

Just asked my mechanical engineer father if he uses calculus at work. His response; "Yeah. Just not very high forms of it."

I'm a certified engineer in several states, and have a couple graduate engineering degrees. I am quite pleased with how my own career has been working out.

To the point at hand, I still maintain that high-end work can't rely on pre-written tools. You can't avoid using calculus, and stuff way beyond, in high-end engineering.

Well were both happy then. :friday:

Not until I get this turbo bolted on! ;)

You don't get paid what you're worth, you get paid what you negotiate. A friend of mine w/ no degree told me this and I've found it to be true. He's also specialized his carrier to the point where only a few in the country have his skills, so he does have something to negotiate with. He never uses calc, BTW.

100k isn't much money. Hell I make that and I'm broke as fuck.

Yeah but thats three years out, within 5 years over 200k and plateau around 350k. At least thats what was promised.

If thats not the case then I go to law school. 180K first year with 15K bonus, till eventually I shit currency.

Plus its not the education, that just proves you can work hard. Its the ideas that matter. I dont care how many degrees or from what school if you cant think then its wasted on you.

promises promises, you've spent too much time in school :rofl:

Matriculated in matriculation:gay:

Haha I know, but it does end of being a lie Ill just move on.

well I wouldn't be so broke if sallie mae wasn't taking like 1200 a month for all that schooling I guess.

Damn leeches, thats why Im holding on to mine, shes pulling in more than i am :bigtu:

Switching gears for a little bit, are any of you CPE's? I am working on a project designing a 4bit processor and I have it in logicworks 5. I have leds wired up to the inputs and outputs but they don't seem to be displaying properly. Could any of you take a look at it and see wtf is up? I have it wired up what I believe to be 100% correct. I can send you a list of micro ops with it.

EDIT: nvm, I got it working.