economy = suck
 

Doom and gloom reports.

Posting several links about it would be easy but I’m sure you’ve already read it, seen it on the news, heard it from a coworker/classmate.

Does the purported downward economic spiral keep you from spending money on your cars/hobbies?

i just got a raise at work. I'm ordering a Begi-S1 kit.

Apparently: NO.

Im thinking about opening up a roth IRA but im not so sure anymore.

Doom and gloom reports = BS

The other day I heard an employment number report. Instead of saying that unemployment dropped 100,000 they actually said that 100,000 people had given up looking for jobs. I couldn't believe it! The media pushes the hysteria for some reason. I don't know if it is political or not, but it is BS.

A few days ago I was listening to Dave Ramsey on the way to work and he said (not sure which mag/paper) had just reported that if you removed the top 10 big housing growth markets (cities where the cost of housing had risen 100% instead of 20% like everywhere else) the foreclosure rates were indeed at the normal rates. Of course, if you got a 125% mortgage on a house that was $200K overpriced it is much easier to just walk away from it. There is no crisis out there.

You didn't want to include any links but I will. Just an interesting clip:
http://reason.tv/video/show/61.html

Anyway, to answer your question, I never spent much money before all the BS and I am doing about the same now. I put all my money into paying off my house. I'll have my house paid off in the next 2 years (when I am 43) and after that will put every penny I can into the market.

JDMAflac - Do some research and you will see that if you put 10% of your money into investments over the long term (much easier than you think) you will be a very wealthy man when you retire. A ROTH is one of the best investment tools that you can get in to. My advice - put your money into the S&P (or even something that does double the S&P, ask me and I will give you details) and sit on it for the next 30 years. It seems like a long time but the benefits are incredible.

opening it and contributing at least 2k a year is about the smartest thing you can do.

I work for FEMA, we don't really care about the stock market until the government fails. My Roth IRA cares, but as long as whichever bank is holding it does get bear-stearn'd, I'll be fine.

in just 2008 I have made over 12K in Gold investments. Thanks spiraling economy!

Im dont know enough to say whether or not the Ecomony sucks, but I do know that gas today is the most it has ever been(here anyway, 3.80 for premium) and if I wanted to sell my house It would take a very long time and I would probably take a really big hit as compared to 2 years ago.
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rmcelwee there are so many things wrong with what you said its sickening. I can tell you that the CEO of Bear Sterns didnt just walk about from 28 million dollars in stock cause of the media.

No chance ill be able to sell my condo today for more than i paid for it a year ago, doesn't mean I'm not dumping in about 5k to update the kitchen this summer.

Touche, I just pulled 70k in equity to update and expand my house. If I cant sell it im gonna make it the way I want.
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Im just glad Im trying to buy in this market! Its awesome. Just low ball everyone.

Because blowing money on Miata parts is a good investment? ;)

Frank

mother fucking plus ONE.

interest rates are dropping to reasonable levels, home prices are falling, and the jumbo and FHA limits have been raised. PMI and points are now tax deductible too. if you're not selling a house right now and even close to being in the market to buy, now is the time.

and you can make the seller pay all the closing costs and some points to lower your rate. w00t.

Rumor is interest rates are gonna go down AGAIN in a week or so.
I'm currently at 6% fixed 30yr on $370k. I've paid off about $5k in the last 2yrs... refinance here I come!!!

And I'm getting a big raise in June when I roll over 8ys served.

I have a lot of buddies who live in SanDiego... one of them lives in a place he bought about 6yrs ago during the heyday of ARM's and interest-only loans (he had a huge downpayment and was able to refinanace and still come out plenty ahead)... and he says that so many people have defaulted on loans, there are entire streets of empty houses. It's so bad that the demand for apartments has gone up and therefore rental prices for apartements are way up... people can't afford a house and they're almost not able to afford a little shit-ass apartment.

Made about half that in Freeport McMoran FCX (Copper and Gold).
In 2 months...

However, I regret that it was on that stupid online stocks game...
stocksquest.com

It was still fun to know that had I invested the money I would have all sorts of turbo goodies and whatnot. :bang:

Actually, I plan on buying a lot more car parts now. Since the $ is down and the € is up, it is Christmas eve all days of the year at the American shops.

just remember that the 30 yr fixed rates aren't based on the (short term lending) prime rate--a lowering of the prime today will not lower the mortgage rate. the 30 yr fixed is based on the 10 yr treasury bill (long term rate).

In fact you may see the mortgage rates INcrease as a result of the lowering of the prime since mortgage rates reflect lenders fear of inflation rather than cost of borrowing money today.

that said, I've heard rumors that they're dropping between now and may as well. though you may not realize any benefit if it's not greater than 1% because the settlement costs will ream you.

I think today's mortgage rate is about 5.8ish.

My investment/retirement plan is based loosely on my zombie survival plan. All my money is in ammunition and whiskey.

Paying someone else to play with your money that you wont see till the age of 59 1/2 is fantastic :rolleyes:

If you really want to be smart go replicate someone elses portfolio or throw your money into an ETF that you can pull out at any time.

In todays market its good to remain liquid. At leasts thats what I believe.

I wanted to max out my Roth for the previous tax year and then this one, I have the money but then took a look at the financial statements of all these funds and nothing looks remotely reliable or that appealing. Then I thought if I need to buy a house in a year or two the earliest I can take that money from the Roth is 5 years. Everything is down. I look at my company matched 401k everytime I need a good laugh.

If you must get a roth then look into the Fidelity and Vangaurd auto balanced retirements funds.

Bottom line is, Roth, IRA, CD. All these financial instruments were designed by the government to help stupid people save money for retirement so they dont drain the government when they are out of work.

Thats my .02 cents.

My portfolio is bombing everyday and I am holding long positions, right now my faith is low in the market.

To answer the OP, no the economy has not had any effect on my toy fund. In fact, my miata is in the shop having a new exhaust system installed 2.5 Tony DP 2.5 pseudo cat, stepped up to 3” from the cat to the bumper

Ive always been pretty frugal, and even more so now. I put mony away in an IRA & in an ING savings account every pay check, while putting a lot of money toward my school loans. Doesnt leave much for the pimped out G-ride but I can manage.

From what ive read, the whole economy thing is media hype since we have only seen this first quarter go down. I may be mistaken, but regardless im working hard to pay off all debt, save what i can and buy my first house beginning to middle of next year...just in case it really does become an economic mess

a tax advantaged investment for retirement is paying someone to play with your money? any halfway decent roth or regular ira has virtually 100% freedom with what you put your money in. individual stocks, funds, indicies, whatever.

Unless you're 50 (I don't remember you being 50), it shouldn't matter what the market is doing. hell if I was 59 today I'd close my eyes and work another 5 years.

A roth is a great idea. You are taxed on what you put in but when it earns 500% over 20 years and you dont pay federal income taxes on those earnings. That's like a free 25+% that you dont give away to the gub'ment.

I mean shit, put 5000 a year into a roth and tie it to the S&P and you'll make 10% a year tax free in the long run. And you dont pay income or capital gains or anything. compare that to just the regular stock market where you make 85% of that 10% because you pay gains taxes.

Your stupid again Sam. The trick to the roth is the tax savings your getting, which you wont get on your own. Second would be the company match 401k is free money again.

y8s beat me to it.

sadly not all employers match, but regardless its still a good idea to put money away

Here in Michigan it seems to suck. At least I'm always hearing it does.

I did hear on Fox news channel that the media was focusing on all the foreclosures and not on how many people were doing fine. Making it look worse than it is.

There are about 20 houses in my neighborhood for sale though.

my co. is doing better than ever, but unfortunately my boss is getting greedier as well, fucking ass

the economy is fine, its a cycle, things can't just keep going up all the time...inflation would kill us all, lol
recession is a good thing, for the smart people, i think darwin had something to do with the way the economy works, lol

PS the fed dropped the prime by .75%

everyone call your credit card companies and tell them to lower your rate. fixed rate.

gas is $1.10 here right now and the summer its supposivly supposed to shoot up to a $1.50 ridiculous...

Inflation is going to be the biggest issue now.

per..... shotglass?

Better yet, get rid of credit card debt. Credit cards are the meth of our economy.

Guys- he's Canadian. They sell by the litre. CA$1.10 / l = CA$4.16 / gal = US$4.19. (fuck. The Looney is ahead of the Greenback again...)

But we're not far off. 91 octane was $3.98 when I filled up last week.

No your stupid :magna:

What tax advantage? With a roth you put in post tax income, you paid the tax on it already. With a traditional IRA you can write the taxes off.

Unless you are referring to the non taxed earnings when you withdraw retirement?

Btw, when you put your money into a Roth, you allocate the funds to a Mutual Fund, or Hedge Fund and those have Fees. Thats what I am referring to when I said paying someone to play with your money. What would seem is a small percentage they charge, is actually a lot of money in the end.

But it does matter. If the market is constantly going down, why would I want to put my money into it only to wait for it to recover? Id rather invest when the market is doing well, and is stable at least in the short term even though this is a long term investment.

At least that is how I reason it.

I am not saying it isnt a great idea, its a fantastic idea. In fact I have a roth opened with Etrade along with my brokerage account. I was getting ready to put 4 grand into it until I started to think about the near term future.

I need my money to stay available to me over the next 5 years. If I put it in a roth I cant withdraw it for 5 years to buy a house, which carries no early withdrawal penalty.

[/QUOTE]
I have my 401k tied to the market, if I could id take that money but free money is free money when the company matches.

Simple difference is this. Either A. You retain liquidity and pay tax on earnings or B. put the money away and have it available to you tax free in 50 years.

I want my money available to me all the time. I dont know whats going to happen in 50 years, locking my money up, in my mind is not the smartest thing to do today.

But please don't think that I am advocating against a Roth IRA, I think its a great thing to do if you have the disposable income to put into it. In fact if you have the money and you can do with it, then do it.

Just understand its not the same for everyone.

I moved away from the markets in the 80's the first time we went through the economic issues. Have PM's - gold & silver - the returns/upturn on them is fantastic. I bought a lot of silver when it was $3-$4 per oz - I LIKE it now at $20+ per oz. Gold was around $350-$400 per oz at that time as well. All that in just 3-4 years time, and I expect both to climb a lot more this year and next year.

Right now it is all the independent banking systems that are faltering, the fed guaranteed banking system is being resolved at the FDIC level, only a couple small banks have gone down the tubes because of the mortgage crisis. I believe what we are seeing mortgage wise is just the tip of the iceberg, nore to come this year and next. Employment will continue to take the hit and decline as rising costs of manufacturing and distribution continue to rise due to fuel costs. Belt tightening at those levels has always brought unemployment, it will take a year or so to get it all under control.

Most all the mortgage stuff and credit card issues are brought on by those who cannot budget their lives, think money grows on trees, etc. Everyone will have to tighten their belt to survive that falls into that group.

Reading some of the more 'black' sites, it seems most feel that we are heading toward a New World Order with regard to banking, etc as a whole. That the NWO will pretty much do away with the indepentents, or at least those who will not play ball with the govs and money changers. If that IS the true situation, lots more independents to fly by the wayside in the process. The gov is printing money like running water, killing the dollar big-time. Of course that actually represents the fact that the dollar will finally be worth it's value with inflation being the real difference. We will see prices triple to equalize those.

As for the actual question that this thread is about - NO, the economy is not affecting my ability to pay for the play when it comes to my vehicles. In fact, right now I am in a window of time to go ahead and play more and that's exactally what I am doing and why I am here on this website - learning what the current and new toys are that I might want to pay/play with. I am self-employed so my future depends greatly on my business skills and client base, both have been and are continuing well. If it all goes to hell, guess I'll find something else to do. My home is paid for, actually everything I have is paid for. I am not stuck in all this stuff the way others are, and I truly hope all will come out for the better for everyone.

and this is when the brilliant idea of living below your means all the sudden makes sense, maybe you dont need a BMW, maybe a camry will do, and the house, maybe 4000sq. ft. is too much, maybe a single guy can live in a smaller two bedroom house with 1500sq. ft.

thats the thing, people that live below their means have "disposable" (god i hate that term) income...thats why i dont care what the brokers, bankers, realtors say about what my %net/gross should be for rent/mortgage...i know better than he knows, i am not part of the majority that follows the "rules" i have a brain and think for myself, only reason i have a credit card is to have a credit history since i never bought a car on credit and untill recently i never had a mortgage...

Man that sucks, it was $3.18 for 91 when i looked yesterday.

last i got was 3.30 for 93, but that was a steal
its usually around 3.40 ish for 93 here (SC is slightly cheaper, about 5-10 cents)

I quote this post for truth.

Except the Gold statement. I think it will go down before it goes up, this is a short term prediction of mine.

Hell yes I'm referring to the non taxed earnings. My example was clear. You put in 5000 dollars (which costs you 7700 say because it's taxed) and you earn 600% over the life of the investment in your roth grossing you 30k. that's ALL YOUR MONEY. you already paid 2700 dollars in taxes on 30,000 dollars of income at retirement. that's like 9% compared to being in the 25% tax bracket otherwise. but if you want to give up 14% for personal reasons, go ahead.

Not all funds have fees. I have my IRA money in an S&P index for example. It's a no fee "fund" that's not managed. It tracks an index = not managed. So I pay whatever my etrade comission is to put it in and to take it out. Since my whole ira's in there, it's 9.99 each time. And what's more, on the S&P you earn dividends! some companies give you money for holding their stock. shock and awe.

managed mutual funds can lick my balls. 99 times out of 100 they underperform the market over the long term. and cost more. and dont pay dividends. You should really look into "no load" funds.
The reality is you should put money into the market no matter what the market is doing. and do it regularly (monthly or each paycheck or whatever) because it will average out over time. one year you buy cheap stock, the next you buy expensive stock. the average is middle-price stock.
The IRA lets you take 10k out penalty free for a home purchase. Even beyond that it's 10% on top of your bracket--not the end of the world if you're desperate but not as cheap as other means.
I dont need the money now so I keep it in the IRA. But keep in mind that pulling money out of the market when you're scared it's going to crash is what makes it crash. 1929.... 1987.... when next?

I'm long in this market. The best part is that our annual profit sharing (which is dumped straight into our 401k) was posted just as the market was tanking. Basically a lot of cheap stock that I can wait for to come back up.

Not wishing to start and argument but what do you find wrong in in what I said that makes you so ill?

As far as James Cayne, the man has been working there since 1969 and has been the CEO for the past 16 years. He now serves as a "non-executive chairman". So, after 40 years at the same company he is now getting paid just to hang around. Seems like a pretty sweet deal to me! Would you not take it when you are 70 (or however old he is)?

Anyway, the sub prime mess we now have is the same as the mess created in '99 by people being over leveraged in stocks. People will always been greedy and that greed will eventually bite them in the ass. The extreme over valuation in the housing market was caused by greed. The value on houses is still great (I know mine is worth more now than it was 5 years ago) but it just couldn't live up to the media driven frenzy we had for the past few years.

All I know is that with my meager single income household we have been able to pay for a house, have a huge nest egg in investments and owe no one anything. We have 3 paid for cars and $0 in debt. I actually took a loan out of my 401K (@ 9.5% tax deferred interest paid back to myself) before the market dropped to pay the last $50K of it off. I should have it paid back in the next year and then will be able to max out both my 401K and Roth accounts. My wife wants a Lava Orange '05 MSM so that may set us back a year on paying the "house" off but things still look pretty damn good from where I am sitting.

I am not sure what your point is. I am not going to argue the reason we are in turmoil . But we are in turmoil. I am glad you are not affected (not really sure of the financial snap shot)

y8s, I completely agree with everything you say. There is no debating anything you said because I agree.

Especially the no load funds, I really want to invest and outperform the market though, who doesnt. Right now its impossible because the market is in the shitter, but at one time it was very doable.

Based on your reasoning, I see that saving for the long term is important for you. Wife, family, kids etc. I am 23, still trying to figure out what I wanna do. I have some time to figure it out for sure.

thats a common mistake. THe more money you put in now saves you years in the future.

Who do you broker through? Comments on them?

I'm my broker. I invest through USAA, and balance my principal with their precious medals fund. (Also have a bag o coins in a safety deposit box.) Monthly investing without penalties. Works out pretty good in the end. Only real stocks I play around with are penny stocks. Thats like playing the lotto though.

buy bullion

/end


*i was going to add firearms and food, but meh*

I agree. If your money doubles 7 years from now then it is really nice to have $100,000 in there now instead of $1,000. It is the upfront money that is the most important. That was the biggest mistake I made years ago (no one ever talked about the market back then).

Nigga please. 1 - 2 years wont do anything for me.

No? starting your 401k when you're 21 vs. 23 could be worth hundreds of thousands depending on how much you put in.

but again, if you want to give that up...

My 401k is already getting its maximum contribution that is matched.

I was talking Roth IRA.

damn it are jewish people so fuckin annoying*


*Ben is excluded from the above comment

the devil has many names.

That and CCs are also useful for buyer protection e.g., buying a clip from someone overseas and they send you a brick and a LOL@U email and then you call up CC company and protest charge and get your money back. Done tat several times. protest, not the brick.