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Old 11-13-2010, 10:31 PM   #61
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yes it does, talk to a attorney. all the states i have been in are like that
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:40 PM   #62
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just so you know. if any bit of info on that ticket is wrong, then you WIN!
like if your name is a letter off then VOID!

That's a quick way to make a judge laugh at you........ At least in IL. Tried that when I was 16-17
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:17 PM   #63
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I went to jail for 15 days thanks to a 95 in a 55 ticket in ******* old boy fairfax county northern virginia.

Your ticket is bullshit but it's better than jail.
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Old 11-14-2010, 02:41 PM   #64
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Hire the best attorney you can afford. It worked for OJ.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:44 PM   #65
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At some point in time I bought a '87 Mitsubishi Starion. Guy that I bought it from had 3 of them - 2 Starions and 1 Chrysler Conquest (same car - rebranded). With my luck he put Conquest plates on the Starion that I bought and I got pulled over by cops. $1,700 ticket - fake license plate, no registration, no insurance. I definitely feel your pain.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:01 PM   #66
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Reading through some of this really makes me realize the difference in attitudes of law enforcement back home (the US in general) vs. in Germany. I'd never really appreciated it before I experienced it.

Over here, the function of the police really does seem to be to protect and serve the citizens. By comparison, police in the states seem downright predatory and bully-ish.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:17 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Reading through some of this really makes me realize the difference in attitudes of law enforcement back home (the US in general) vs. in Germany. I'd never really appreciated it before I experienced it.

Over here, the function of the police really does seem to be to protect and serve the citizens. By comparison, police in the states seem downright predatory and bully-ish.
That's a pretty fair assessment, it's a case of the tail wagging the dog. Most of them are more concerned with revenue generation than protecting citizens and their property rights, while respecting their liberty.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:05 PM   #68
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A few details:

I haven't had a ticket in over 6 years.

It was 2 days before my birthday, me and the wife go out for some dinner and a movie. Afterwards I get a call from a friend that there are hundreds of cars at "the spot" and some fast cars.Wife's never been to something like this before so we go.

After a couple of hours of checking out people's cars watching idiots attempt to drift in a parking lot (lots of drifter **** here in Sac), we decide to call it a night.

On the way home a supercharged camaro SS that is louder than 5 million atomic bombs gets next to me and instigates a race. Having just finished tuning my car I want to see how it will behave. I do 2 2-4th pulls with him. Beat him by about half car length or so.

After we've stopped our shenanigans about 2 blocks down I see a cop get on my ***. He lights me up 10 seconds later. The SS was right next to us, and was louder than my car by about 100000000 times, but the cop still chose me to pull over.

Said "I heard you guys down the block". That is why the speed he wrote down we were going is 50 in a 40. Really he didn't even see us or get us on radar, or really even know if it was us. We just HAPPENED to be the only 2 sporty/modded cars on the road and I guess it was easy to ASSUME it was us.


I have a court date for mid December, I'm definitely going to try to fight it. If not to win then to at least get the fine reduced or get it changed to an infraction instead of a misdemeanor.

So yeah. Street racing is stupid but its fun, and sometimes you just can't resist. This is what happens as a result.


I think 1900 is just out of this world ridiculous. ******** going 100 in a 45 here get like a 600 dollar fine. And I get 1900.


Oh well it is what it is.
This sounds contestable, get a good lawyer. A good lawyer can probably shave that fine down a lot, if not get it removed. It sounds like the officer is using conjecture instead of evidence. Who's to say you didn't just wind it out in first a few times?
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:07 AM   #69
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just so you know. if any bit of info on that ticket is wrong, then you WIN!
like if your name is a letter off then VOID!
Please, go get some tickets and find one little error, go to court and stress that point to the judge....and video tape his reaction. You'll get your tail put between your legs faster than you can blink. That **** doesn't work.


Vlad- The only problem with a lawyer is that they'll be in it for the maximum amount of cash they can get form you in exchange for the quickest way out of the ticket...not always in your best interest. A paid lawyer isn't going to fight it as if it was his ticket..unless you pay way too much moneys. In my expeirence with lawyers and traffic tickets, they take your money and make a call or two to the solicitor, work out a plea deal and shake dicks.

To give you an idea of the **** I had to deal with -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ga law ****
§ 40-6-186. Racing on highways or streets


(a) As used in this Code section, the term:

(1) "Drag race" means the operation of two or more vehicles from a point side by side at accelerated speeds in a competitive attempt to outdistance each other or the operation of one or more vehicles over a common selected course from the same point to the same point for the purpose of comparing the relative speeds or power of acceleration of such vehicle or vehicles within a certain distance or time limit.

(2) "Racing" means the use of one or more vehicles in an attempt to outgain, outdistance, or prevent another vehicle from passing, to arrive at a given destination ahead of another vehicle or vehicles, or to test the physical stamina or endurance of drivers over long-distance driving routes.

(b) No person shall drive any vehicle on a highway in this state in any race, speed competition or contest, drag race or acceleration contest, test of physical endurance, exhibition of speed or acceleration, or for the purpose of making a speed record, and no person shall in any manner participate in any such race, competition of speed, contest of speed, or test or exhibition of speed.

(c) Any person convicted of violating subsection (b) of this Code section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
It's a little less extensive then the CA code section..which proves how money hungry they are over it by listing off fines for 2/3 of the sub sections...

Quote:
Originally Posted by money-hungry California *****
V C Section 23109 Speed Contests
Speed Contests
23109. (a) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle speed contest on a highway. As used in this section, a motor vehicle speed contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest.
(b) A person shall not aid or abet in any motor vehicle speed contest on any highway.

(c) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on a highway, and a person shall not aid or abet in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on any highway.

(d) A person shall not for the purpose of facilitating or aiding or as an incident to any motor vehicle speed contest or exhibition upon a highway in any manner obstruct or place a barricade or obstruction or assist or participate in placing a barricade or obstruction upon any highway.

(e) (1) A person convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 24 hours nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than three hundred fifty-five dollars ($355) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. That person shall also be required to perform 40 hours of community service. The court may order the privilege to operate a motor vehicle suspended for 90 days to six months, as provided in paragraph ( )1 (10) of subdivision (a) of Section 13352. The person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle may be restricted for 90 days to six months to necessary travel to and from that person’s place of employment and, if driving a motor vehicle is necessary to perform the duties of the person’s employment, restricted to driving in that person’s scope of employment. This subdivision does not interfere with the court’s power to grant probation in a suitable case.

(2) If a person is convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) and that violation proximately causes bodily injury to a person other than the driver, the person convicted shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30 days nor more than six months or by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(f) (1) If a person is convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) for an offense that occurred within five years of the date of a prior offense that resulted in a conviction of a violation of subdivision (a), that person shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than four days nor more than six months, and by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

(2) If the perpetration of the most recent offense within the five-year period described in paragraph (1) proximately causes bodily injury to a person other than the driver, a person convicted of that second violation shall be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than 30 days nor more than six months and by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

(3) If the perpetration of the most recent offense within the five-year period described in paragraph (1) proximately causes serious bodily injury, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (f) of Section 243 of the Penal Code, to a person other than the driver, a person convicted of that second violation shall be imprisoned in the state prison, or in a county jail for not less than 30 days nor more than one year, and by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

(4) The court shall order the privilege to operate a motor vehicle of a person convicted under paragraph (1), (2), or (3) suspended for a period of six months, as provided in paragraph ( )2 (11) of subdivision (a) of Section 13352. In lieu of the suspension, the person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle may be restricted for six months to necessary travel to and from that person’s place of employment and, if driving a motor vehicle is necessary to perform the duties of the person’s employment, restricted to driving in that person’s scope of employment.

(5) This subdivision does not interfere with the court’s power to grant probation in a suitable case.

(g) If the court grants probation to a person subject to punishment under subdivision (f), in addition to subdivision (f) and any other terms and conditions imposed by the court, which may include a fine, the court shall impose as a condition of probation that the person be confined in a county jail for not less than 48 hours nor more than six months. The court shall order the person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle to be suspended for a period of six months, as provided in paragraph ( )2 (11) of subdivision (a) of Section 13352 or restricted pursuant to subdivision (f).

(h) If a person is convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) and the vehicle used in the violation is registered to that person, the vehicle may be impounded at the registered owner’s expense for not less than one day nor more than 30 days.

(i) A person who violates subdivision (b), (c), or (d) shall upon conviction of that violation be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than 90 days, by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(j) If a person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle is restricted by a court pursuant to this section, the court shall clearly mark the restriction and the dates of the restriction on that person’s driver’s license and promptly notify the Department of Motor Vehicles of the terms of the restriction in a manner prescribed by the department. The Department of Motor Vehicles shall place that restriction in the person’s records in the Department of Motor Vehicles and enter the restriction on a license subsequently issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles to that person during the period of the restriction.

(k) The court may order that a person convicted under this section, who is to be punished by imprisonment in a county jail, be imprisoned on days other than days of regular employment of the person, as determined by the court.
When fighting..errr...researching my ticket, I actually talked to several officers on exactly how they can determine such offences. I bet if you ask an officer if he has ever given a ticket for racing or speeding based on sound, he'll look a bit perplexed (or laugh) and give some helpful hints as to how to prove your case. Just remember that if you say anything about your ticket that the conversation with that officer is for your own personal information and will not be used directly in your case. In most of the officers I talked to, their first question was "did you squeal tires?", which I didn't and makes things even harder to prove. In your case, you'll need to have the officer prove the sound he heard was you without a doubt. Hearing something and later seeing two cars driving side-by-side is only an assumption....given that you know without a doubt that he never saw anything and that you wern't speeding in his presence. As far as we all know, you were driving along and minding your P's and Q's and someone decided to act like an idiot and take off to try to get you to race. Also, what did you say to the cop when he pulled you over? You can bet that if you go to trial over this, he'll have every word you said ready to be used against you...if you said anything the lest bit incriminating.

Disclaimer* I am not an attorney nor can anything I say be taken as fact. I do not guarantee specific results or outcome by direct or indirect sharing of opinion. All information and opinions posted are for discussion purposes only and the poster accepts no liability of outcome if used outside this discussion.

Last edited by Doppelgänger; 11-15-2010 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:34 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Please, go get some tickets and find one little error, go to court and stress that point to the judge....and video tape his reaction. You'll get your tail put between your legs faster than you can blink. That **** doesn't work.


Vlad- The only problem with a lawyer is that they'll be in it for the maximum amount of cash they can get form you in exchange for the quickest way out of the ticket...not always in your best interest. A paid lawyer isn't going to fight it as if it was his ticket..unless you pay way too much moneys. In my expeirence with lawyers and traffic tickets, they take your money and make a call or two to the solicitor, work out a plea deal and shake dicks.
That's pretty much it. Pay me now (ticket/fine), pay me later (lawyer).

Unfortunately it's a good ol boys club. Judges are lawyers. They keep their buddies paid. I've had one or two who threw out tickets when the cop didn't show. I have had judges reschedule hearings when the cop didn't show. I had a judge and a cop pocket my cash "fine" and never saw a receipt or heard from the state (VA) or my DMV (MD), or my insurance co. I've had judges reduce fines and judges laugh at whatever I said and uphold the fine.

The speed doesn't really matter, as the ticket is for street racing, not speeding. I would probably go in well dressed with a copy of my driving record indicating it was clean for X amount of years, explain to the judge that while the other car thought a display of manliness was in order with his loud car, you had no interest in racing and simply continued at speed. Why race in a Miata? Be apologetic for putting yourself in this situation. Ask for lenience from the court based on your spotless driving record for the last X years and see if the court could recommend driver safety course for a reduced penalty/points.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:26 PM   #71
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you guys are killing me here.... you would take the ticket to the clerk and be like "wrong info" and you make a statement. Then in about 2 weeks, you get a letter in the mail saying if its been dropped or if you have to show up to court. Doing this has worked about 5 times for me
ANYWAYS
you can always talk to a attorney for FREE! if you just wanted guidance, you can call and talk for a bit on best ways to go about it and hang up.....then keep on calling PEPs

OR you can always have the ticket delayed for 6 months. Then just don't get more tickets and BAM its dropped
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:34 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by nickblackbelt View Post
you guys are killing me here.... you would take the ticket to the clerk and be like "wrong info" and you make a statement. Then in about 2 weeks, you get a letter in the mail saying if its been dropped or if you have to show up to court. Doing this has worked about 5 times for me
ANYWAYS
you can always talk to a attorney for FREE! if you just wanted guidance, you can call and talk for a bit on best ways to go about it and hang up.....then keep on calling PEPs

OR you can always have the ticket delayed for 6 months. Then just don't get more tickets and BAM its dropped
Technicalities like this don't fly if your name is a letter off, then there's still your license number.

I still can't get over the I HEARD you ******* race, here's a ticket with a made up speed bullshit.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:35 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by nickblackbelt View Post
you guys are killing me here.... you would take the ticket to the clerk and be like "wrong info" and you make a statement. Then in about 2 weeks, you get a letter in the mail saying if its been dropped or if you have to show up to court. Doing this has worked about 5 times for me
Not in MD or VA. You can talk to the judge and if you're lucky you can talk to the prosecutor. I got a speeding ticket in MD. I was in my fathers car. He has the almost the same name as me except I'm a 3rd and he's a Jr. He lives at a different address. Ticket was written out to him at his address. ,./When we got to court I told the prosecutor and he basically said talk to the judge. The judge told me to correct the info and preceded with the states case against me. Traffic court plays by different rules.

I also find it hard to believe you've had the wrong info on your tickets 5 times.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:05 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Reading through some of this really makes me realize the difference in attitudes of law enforcement back home (the US in general) vs. in Germany. I'd never really appreciated it before I experienced it.

Over here, the function of the police really does seem to be to protect and serve the citizens. By comparison, police in the states seem downright predatory and bully-ish.
another reason i love germany the cops arent around unless you **** something up major big win in my book
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:30 PM   #75
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The "wrong spelling gets it thrown out" I'm a bit skeptical on. I HAVE heard of tickets thrown out for something like that, but it was always because the cop got the car completely wrong or the name COMPLETELY wrong or something big like that. In my case he miswrote 2 letters. If it gets it thrown out GREAT but somehow I doubt it.


I have decided not to go in with a lawyer. Talked with a few friends that had the same ticket and all agreed that the lawyer got the fine reduced by about 500, then charged 500 for his services. No difference. They told me I have the right to a public defender. I know they're not the best, but I'll give it a shot.

Basically I'm going to prepare all my arguments/etc as if I'll be representing myself. Before trial I'll run everything past teh public defender and see if he can help me out. If he does great, if not I'll be prepared to just represent myself and to hell with him.

The strategy "well dressed, clean driving record printout, plead for reduction and allow traffic school" is a really good one IMO. That's what I'll do.

I am willing to take responsibility for my actions. Just trying to keep them from sodomizing my wallet just cause they're *****.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:37 PM   #76
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I'd also like to thank everyone for your support/suggestions/input in this thread. I'm glad I made it. It def gave me some ideas on how to fight this or at least try to.

Keep it comin
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:40 PM   #77
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I'd also like to thank everyone for your support/suggestions/input in this thread. I'm glad I made it. It def gave me some ideas on how to fight this or at least try to.

Keep it comin
Good luck in court, a PD will probably be able to really help with this. It seems that the whole concept of hearing speeding is legally unsound. You should have a good chance at getting clear of this.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:41 PM   #78
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:45 PM   #79
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Good luck in court, a PD will probably be able to really help with this. It seems that the whole concept of hearing speeding is legally unsound. You should have a good chance at getting clear of this.
Yeah I was going back and forth on whether I should use a PD, but Dopple pointed out that they're usually not horrible due to trying to make a name for themselves and all that. So I thought I'll give it a shot.
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That site is GREAT and way back in the day (about 6 years ago or more) when I was young and had lots of tickets it actually got me out of 2 VERY big tickets. I worshiped that site.

Unfortunately Misdemeanor = no written declaration available. mandatory in person trial.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:34 PM   #80
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I am willing to take responsibility for my actions. Just trying to keep them from sodomizing my wallet just cause they're *****.
Do not take responsibility for anything other than just driving along and minding your own ***. Say "I had no interaction with the driver of any car while driving on such-and-such road. Another vehicle pulled up along side my car, attempted to instigate a speed contest by accelerating away from me and pulling back along side me. I had my girlfriend in the car and I am not going to race on the street".

As far as the speed, did the cop radar/laser you? Or did he "assume" your speed because he "is trained to visually determine speed". If he says the slightest hint about being able to tell an object speed by looking at it, take a pencil (have one ready) and give it a quick toss while asking him how fast it's traveling. I'm guessing the speeding is BS as well since I don't see anything on the ticket about distance or equipment used. Also, speak sternly, with determination and keep eye contact..and do not stammer with "uhhh" and **** like that.

If the situation is as exactly as you say it is, there is no way on Earth that officer and prove you were doing anything. Discredit the officer as much as possible. If you go to trial, you will be able to cross-examine the officer on the stand (it really is like TV). You will get to ask him any question you want pertaining to the events of the traffic stop.
Ask him what he was doing when he "heard" you.
Ask him how he was able to determine it was your car.
Ask him why he assumes you were racing (be careful not to admit any illegal activity).
Ask him to verify that there was another car in your vicinity when he made visual contact with your car.
Lie. State that your car has a converter, resonator and muffler and that it passed it's last inspection as it sits. They can't make you prove otherwise. If you can get a sound test/dB reading, grab a stock muffler or something to make your quiet and go get that done...and throw it in your evidence. (I assume with the stories I've heard about exhaust/noise tickets in CA that you can get exhaust noise tested).

Let him babble on about hearing acceleration and whatnot and then ask him... "so you know the sound of my specific car and are able to tell my exact speed without being able to see me?" I mean, we've all seen some POS Geo Metro with a rusted off exhaust that makes 110dB of sound at idle and screams like a banshee with the slightest acceleration. We all know that with your eyes closed, such a car can sound like it's tearing *** up the road when all it's doing for 15 seconds is reaching 35mph....on a downhill....with a tail wind.

Last edited by Doppelgänger; 11-15-2010 at 03:47 PM.
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