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Old 11-15-2010, 03:51 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Do not take responsibility for anything other than just driving along and minding your own ***. Say "I had no interaction with the driver of any car while driving on such-and-such road. Another vehicle pulled up along side my car, attempted to instigate a speed contest by accelerating away from me and pulling back along side me. I had my girlfriend in the car and I am not going to race on the street".

As far as the speed, did the cop radar/laser you? Or did he "assume" your speed because he "is trained to visually determine speed". If he says the slightest hint about being able to tell an object speed by looking at it, take a pencil (have one ready) and give it a quick toss while asking him how fast it's traveling. I'm guessing the speeding is BS as well since I don't see anything on the ticket about distance or equipment used. Also, speak sternly, with determination and keep eye contact..and do not stammer with "uhhh" and **** like that.

If the situation is as exactly as you say it is, there is no way on Earth that officer and prove you were doing anything. Discredit the officer as much as possible. If you go to trial, you will be able to cross-examine the officer on the stand (it really is like TV). You will get to ask him any question you want pertaining to the events of the traffic stop.
Ask him what he was doing when he "heard" you.
Ask him how he was able to determine it was your car.
Ask him why he assumes you were racing (be careful not to admit any illegal activity).
Ask him to verify that there was another car in your vicinity when he made visual contact with your car.
Lie. State that your car has a converter, resonator and muffler and that it passed it's last inspection as it sits. They can't make you prove otherwise. If you can get a sound test/dB reading, grab a stock muffler or something to make your quiet and go get that done...and throw it in your evidence. (I assume with the stories I've heard about exhaust/noise tickets in CA that you can get exhaust noise tested).

Let him babble on about hearing acceleration and whatnot and then ask him... "so you know the sound of my specific car and are able to tell my exact speed without being able to see me?" I mean, we've all seen some POS Geo Metro with a rusted off exhaust that makes 110dB of sound at idle and screams like a banshee with the slightest acceleration. We all know that with your eyes closed, such a car can sound like it's tearing *** up the road when all it's doing for 15 seconds is reaching 35mph....on a downhill....with a tail wind.
One reason to get a lawyer or ask for a PD is to have them ask these questions, that way the judge doesn't become convinced that you are a know-it-all *****. The lawyer gets the bad rep for being a pain in the *** and you don't get stuck with the animosity.

Also, don't take $1900 worth of "responsibility" without contesting it as best you can.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:55 PM   #82
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FWIW:

In the daytime you see things moving past objects like buildings and signs and what-have-you. At night you cannot see those reference points and ***** of light seems to be traveling faster than they really are. This is why judging a left hand yielded turn becomes odd at night, and you find yourself quite often passing up opportunities to turn because you thought the oncoming car was closer/faster than it was.

Hard to judge speed without any sort of reference...let alone any actual witness to said speed at all or Formula Sheets.
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:01 PM   #83
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i think on its face its a bit rediculous. supercharged camaro ss is like 550 horsepower? miata is like 140. must be some mistake.

looks like a case of somebody trying to impress your girlfriend with their domestic supercharged v8.
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:07 PM   #84
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Yes. My miata is 140hp. Damn domestics showin off cause my car looks and goes like a limp *****
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:37 PM   #85
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Lawyer up if the first appearence is less than $250 for the D-bag with a bar to come. It's all BS.

The dayton PD stole my RX-7 once. I came home and it was gone. Called it in stolen, the operator ran my plate and said it was towed. I asked "for what?" They said exired tags. I said check it. She did, they were in the system as current (and the tag was on the plate), so she didn't know why it was towed. Also, I had no ticket to fight. The staff srg said they dont' have to write a ticket to tow a car. So there was no court date to go to fight. Pay for the tow, pay for the time in impound. Had to file a moral obligations complaint with the omnibusman (sp). Never saw a dime or heard from them again.

Staff stg wouldn't write off the tow either. He said the car was towed for being on the street with a car cover, which proved it was there for more than 48 hours. This is a street where half the cars on on the curb don't run (I was poor out of college). Lazy cop didn't know the code for that and coded it for expired plates...and the sgt was OK with that. Gets my blood boiling even 7 years later just thinking about it.
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:47 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaius49 View Post
One reason to get a lawyer or ask for a PD is to have them ask these questions, that way the judge doesn't become convinced that you are a know-it-all *****. The lawyer gets the bad rep for being a pain in the *** and you don't get stuck with the animosity.

Also, don't take $1900 worth of "responsibility" without contesting it as best you can.
You'd be surprised how a judge will respect a person who is articulate, well-spoken and has a point. Now, if you go in there looking like haggard ***, being demanding and sound like you're reading a 12yr olds text to their girlfriend..you might as well bring your own lube. A LOT has to do with presentation.
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:53 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Yeah I was going back and forth on whether I should use a PD, but Dopple pointed out that they're usually not horrible due to trying to make a name for themselves and all that. So I thought I'll give it a shot.
I am just going to bite my tongue



Good luck with you case. Please take it seriously, and use an attorney. The government can be / is a scary and serious force.

Criminal convictions, even misdemeanors, can have far reaching implications.

Again, good luck.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:49 AM   #88
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The government can be / is a scary and serious force.

Welcome to Communist China!
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:14 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by 94mx5red View Post
Criminal convictions, even misdemeanors, can have far reaching implications.

Again, good luck.
i can't speak to criminal convictions, but misdemeanors are kind of annoying. its like an incident on your credit bureau, it's such a pain to explain every time that i would jump at the chance to just get it erased.

i have been pulled over 3 times in one week for a broken tail light. i was even pulled over once because i was driving a different car than usual. i once counted 6 different guns pointed at me when i was pulled over (i ran instead of pulling over). sometimes police really are just bored, avoiding real crime, etc. as others have said, in the courtroom the trick is to differentiate yourself from the folks who get pulled over for good cause.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:50 PM   #90
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I suppose I'll be that guy...

I've never once been given a citation after making a pass at one of our numerous local drag strips. I've been given some pretty depressing time slips (especially bracket-racing my 5-Series wagon), but never a notice to appear in court.

Just sayin'.

Last edited by Deviate; 11-16-2010 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:24 PM   #91
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:31 PM   #92
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I think a ticket for holding an actual pissing contest would have cost you much less.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:37 PM   #93
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18psi in a few years?

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Old 11-16-2010, 08:47 PM   #94
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Quote:
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18psi in a few years?

What the **** is this ****.

GTFO
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:50 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Deviate View Post
I suppose I'll be that guy...

I've never once been given a citation after making a pass at one of our numerous local drag strips. I've been given some pretty depressing time slips (especially bracket-racing my 5-Series wagon), but never a notice to appear in court.

Just sayin'.
Its easy to have self control when you have a slow car.

We're past the fact that had I not done anything at all I probably wouldn't have gotten into all of this.

coulda shoulda woulda.


I hear your point and I understand and agree. But that's not what this thread is about.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:40 PM   #96
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Its easy to have self control when you have a slow car.
Even when I had my Z06, my Aprilia RSV-R, either of my Gixxers or my M3, I refrained from street racing. Now I tortured PLENTY of tires on various drag strips around DFW, but never once did I race some assclown on a public street.

Driving a couple slow cars now does not necessarily mean that's all I've owned, but thanks for making what came across as an assumption about my automotive history.

BTW, if you have any intentions on fighting this in court, I would consider removing this thread. Or at least editing your initial post. It's not unheard of for prosecutors to use information posted on the internet in their cases. Not saying they'll absolutely find this post, but I would definitely say they'll have a harder time finding you admitting to street racing if it were wiped clean.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:59 PM   #97
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Relax, I didn't mean just YOU. I meant unless you're an *** clown, its usually a lot less rewarding and therefore nowhere near as tempting to wind out a 90hp car as it is a 300.

When my miata was stock I had zero motivation to even floor the throttle, much less wind out a whole gear.
If my car would be at 100hp right now I would sell it tomorrow.

I'm glad you had very fast cars/bikes and had enough self control to never gun it on the street. That's great. I'm not that way. That doesn't mean I street race all the time or drive like an idiot. In fact, my daily driver right now is a civic hybrid. I don't think I've ever been past 65mph in that car. LOL. If I wasn't able to give it a bit of gas every now and then in my miata (or my wrx's)I honestly wouldn't want a fast car at all. Ever. Nothing makes me laugh harder than some old fart in a z06 corvette going 40 in a 65 in the left lane holding up priuses (or prii, however its spelled).

It is what it is. I'm not going to defend it or justify it.
I sure as hell am not here to condone street racing.
But 99% of the members on here would be lying if they said they NEVER WOT their car in 2 gears or gave it a bit of throttle if someone instigated it.
I'm glad I started this thread because I have received quite a bit of PM's with links on how I can try to fight this and know my rights and all of that.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:54 AM   #98
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I drive the **** out of my car i just try to never get caught. So far so good, if i had a track to acces every week or the cash to spend there i would but i dont so i do the best i can with what i have.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:21 AM   #99
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Having sucessfully beaten a 'Radar" speeding ticket in NM, through a lot of net research, and without a lawyer, here's my suggestions (just the one's that I think will apply to your non-radar ticket):

1.) If you have not done so already, write down everything right now. Location, direction, traffic, other vehicle, yada, yada, Also, most importantly what the officer said and what you said. Where you were coming from/going to at 2am is also important.

2.) Your wife is a witness. If you and her are comfortable with it, she should attend (and be a part of the writing down of notes).

3.) Send a formal request to the PD for the officer's notes as soon as you can. Use certified/registered mail (delivery/receive receipt). If they don't respond, no biggie, but just bring it up in court that you requested them.

4.) Make copies of the statuates and bring them.

5.) In court, obviously be very respectful to everyone (my officer lied, and I had to bite my tounge hard).

6.) You have the right (hopefully in CA) to question the officer. Go over the facts and then try to angle it as if the officer could be simply mistaken given the circumstances. The key is to make some doubt, if the mood seems acceptable, bring up the little errors on the ticket, as something light and everyone makes mistakes. Try and work it in a manner to allow the officer to save face.

Distance, dark, very loud opposing vehicle. I would admit to reving the engine as being funny because you were in a miata and the agressor was in a camaro (do not mention hp numbers). Then blame everything on the aggressor.

7.) If you can, try and attend a few sessions of the traffic court before hand. This was indespensible for me and sometime quite funny.

Also, I don't know how old you are (guessing mid 20's?), but if you are fortunate to look "young" it might be a good idea to bring an older male figure as a reference (Dad, Father-in-law, etc) who can be a character reference for the responsible, married, fine upstanding young man, with a good driving record who would not think of street racing. The judge may as who he is, but will likely not let him speak. Just another person in a suit is a good image though.

8.) Never admit to anything wrong. This is a tough one (you have already admitted it here). You will be lying. Are you ok with that? In my case, yes I was speeding, and as much I hate to lie, the circumstances called for it in my opinion. Same in your case, as I feel the costs are insane and do not fit the "crime", rather it's just state revenue collection. It's up to you (and anybody you bring) to make peace with it.

Yes, street racing is stupid and dangerous to everyone. But when the law is pushed to extremes (chirping the tires for a second coming out of starbucks is a display of speed?) and the fines are insane, it's a matter of common sense to fight.

Just my :2cents

Good luck. Don't feel too bad. We've all done stupid **** and "broke the law" at some point in our lives and anybody that says they haven't is either a ***** or a liar.
SA

Last edited by sixace; 11-17-2010 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:55 AM   #100
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I would probably go in well dressed with a copy of my driving record indicating it was clean for X amount of years, explain to the judge that while the other car thought a display of manliness was in order with his loud car, you had no interest in racing and simply continued at speed. Why race in a Miata? Be apologetic for putting yourself in this situation. Ask for lenience from the court based on your spotless driving record for the last X years and see if the court could recommend driver safety course for a reduced penalty/points.
^^ This has worked for me. However, what Dopplegänger & others have said, getting to really speak for yourself, cross examine etc depends on how full the docket is.
Get there early to see if the judge is talkative or not; you don't want to say too much.

People underestimate what proper dress, courtesy & confidence can do for you in court. I got traffic school after being clocked doing 97 in a 55 on a wet night in an Integra.
I was handcuffed to the CHP Crown Vic bumper & would have been arrested for reckless driving but I got off with a just 2-pointer for being straight with the officer.
"I was ripping this last straight before work.. I'm sorry, sir." Cuffs off.

I went to court in a shirt & tie, slacks & low quarters amongst guys with sandals & NASCAR attire (Lake County, CA). My case was called after the prior defendant got
his case dismissed for operating an OHV withing city limits (dirt biking down the street with his girlfriend on the back.)
The judge just read my case & options: bail forfeiture, pay big fine, or lesser fine + traffic school..? Yes Please!

They're sending you to criminal court since he marked misdemeanor right? A public defender is okay unless you were facing a jail sentence, then you
absolutely need a lawyer. But this wont be a long proceeding for a Sacramento court, so just prepare a succint 20~second account of why your case is erroneous & the cop is a ********.

Good luck man.
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