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Old 11-17-2010, 05:18 AM   #101
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2.) Your wife is a witness. If you and her are comfortable with it, she should attend (and be a part of the writing down of notes).
If you're both comfortable with this one, it could help A LOT.

Good suggestions guys, fight the man.

Last edited by Import Al; 11-17-2010 at 05:57 AM. Reason: halp
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:31 AM   #102
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If you think that you may want to just resolve it and plea out, consider being proactive and completing what you determine to be an appropriate level driving school. Show up with the certificate of completion to present to your attorney. Maybe do some community service hours too. It could help to convince the government attorney to do what you request.

But then again, local customs vary so much, that you may just want to see what your attorney thinks.
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:13 AM   #103
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If you haven't already talked to a lawyer who is extremely familiar with the municipality where you will be tried, you would be well advised to do so. If said lawyer offers something paralleling a 'free consultation', you would be well advised to tip him $20-$50 at a minimum at the end of your short session with him.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:33 PM   #104
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All VERY VERY good ideas.

I can't thank you guys enough for all the great advice I've gotten here. I will absolutely explore all options and prepare thoroughly using all possible resources.

I'll have a few days off in a week or two, hoping to call around and hopefully get a few decent consultations with attorneys.


Getting the wife to come to court with me might be hard because her work might not let her take the day off. We'll give it a shot though.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:44 PM   #105
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Relax, I didn't mean just YOU. I meant unless you're an *** clown, its usually a lot less rewarding and therefore nowhere near as tempting to wind out a 90hp car as it is a 300.
I suppose we're just wired a bit differently, then. I enjoy the hell out of my NA, even if it's just coilovers, intake, exhaust. It still puts a smile on my face.

I actually have to give you a bit of a credit. After lurking around here for the past month or so I really expected a less-mature response from you. Kudos to you for at least admitting that it was a mistake. I've dealt with far too many queefs on the internets that would argue until they're blue in the face about how it wasn't their fault, cops "just be hatin' ", etc.

BTW, I'm not an old fart, even if I did cruise the speed limit in my Z06. Hell, I'm not quite 30 just yet. I suppose I've always acted more like an AARP member than my age shows.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:21 PM   #106
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I'd take pictures of your car, slap them on the Judge's bench, and say "the defense rests!"
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:26 PM   #107
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He'll see my chinese turbo and wheels and realize I'm too poor to afford baller **** and drop the case

Last edited by 18psi; 11-17-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:39 PM   #108
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I feel the pain for heavy ticket, i has so much speeding tickets but nothing go that expensive... **** 1900 that too much, go to court i hope you win a case and save money to upgrade more pwr...and the cop maybe sick that day!!! goodluck
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:49 PM   #109
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I had a ticket in MD for a technical term for "spinning wheels". The cop could have got me for racing as this was in my NA when a C5 pulled up beside me and we went at it at a traffic light up to about 50mph. This was one for me where the cop didn't show AND the judge threw out all of the cops cases (IF the defendant approached the bench with a not guilty plea). Luckily I was in the last 1/3 of the cases and paid attention to other cases with the same cop and realized the judge was tossing them. As I said on another occasion, the judge said the absent cop had a good excuse for not being present (another case) and rescheduled all of our cases unless we plead guilty in which case he seemed to be a bit more lenient with sentencing.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:52 PM   #110
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Around here if the cop doesn't show the case gets dismissed. EVERY time.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:42 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
All VERY VERY good ideas.

I can't thank you guys enough for all the great advice I've gotten here. I will absolutely explore all options and prepare thoroughly using all possible resources.

I'll have a few days off in a week or two, hoping to call around and hopefully get a few decent consultations with attorneys.


Getting the wife to come to court with me might be hard because her work might not let her take the day off. We'll give it a shot though.
I think that part of the reason that everyone is stepping forward with considered advice, is that a lot of us have spent time considering this kind of thing. Those what if thoughts...
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:47 PM   #112
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Officers get in a decent amount of trouble for not showing up, it's part of their job duties.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:50 PM   #113
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Getting the wife to come to court with me might be hard because her work might not let her take the day off. We'll give it a shot though.
If California is anything similar to Florida, you will not need your wife present as a witness until the case actually goes to trial, or sentencing.

Your first court date will likely be arraignment: the entering of a plea of guilty or not guilty. Or possibly a docket call (status) if your attorney entered a written plea of not guilty.

Your attorney, or if you have been assigned a public defender will be able to advise you on this. May save your wife the hassle of begging to get the day off for nothing.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:54 PM   #114
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Already had that on the 3rd. The one coming up is the actual trial.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:15 PM   #115
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FYI: I know nothing about California law. In Florida, she would have to be listed as a witness ahead of time.

Edit: Ahead of time, meaning well before trial. Not good practice to wait until morning of jury selection to list a witness.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:14 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Officers get in a decent amount of trouble for not showing up, it's part of their job duties.
True in my case, plus in talking to a different officer before hand, he said that going to court very often resulted in overtime pay, which they liked alot.

Also, in NM, cases were being dismissed when the officer did not show. Mine did. Also, to be clear, while I did "beat" the rap, I still had to pay "court costs" which was around $180. Well worth it. No points, no school.

Good point about checking on having the witnesses signed up beforehand. Was not required in my case, but each jurisdiction varies.

Lots of good tips in here. Hope I never have to use em again.
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Old 11-20-2010, 05:05 PM   #117
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since this is becoming a good reference, i'm just going to keep posting even if flirting w/ persona non grata.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sixace
6.) You have the right (hopefully in CA) to question the officer. Go over the facts and then try to angle it as if the officer could be simply mistaken given the circumstances. The key is to make some doubt, if the mood seems acceptable, bring up the little errors on the ticket, as something light and everyone makes mistakes. Try and work it in a manner to allow the officer to save face.
i got out of a ticket this way (trial by declaration), and it was the officer himself who read my plea. i had written my defense to the court, but was respectful of the officer. this may have helped. i also included photos to show that my defense was plausible (the sign was obscured from my view). if it would help your case you may consider staging your car where you supposedly commited the offense and take a photo.

i used mistake of fact defense. officer saved face, ticket was canceled. everybody happy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistake_of_fact


Another tool is i think in CA you can elect to have the trial held @ the county seat. If this means the officer traveling longish distance this may improve your chances (or at least make it painful ). Not helpful in this particular case tho.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:18 AM   #118
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UPDATE:

So I've been reading stuff online the past day or two and the more I read the more horrible news I saw people posting about this sort of ticket and consequences/etc.
Last night I stayed up all day/night and read up a bunch of ways to make my case, cross examine the officer, and generally tips to fight the case.


Today I went in to court.
Met with the Public Defender. She was this young very hot chick and seemed like she knew what she was doing and smart.

Anyways, so I didn't even get to court. YET.
She said the court was prepared to make me an offer:

If I plead GUILTY or NO CONTEST,
Since my record is great and all of that, they would reduce my fine from
1900 + 2 points + community service
to
75 bux + 2 points + court assessment fees (couple hundred)



Pretty good offer IMO. I couldn't believe that they could just drop it that much, but they did.


Then she asked me to explain my side of the story. I did. I even had a typed up version of it. I also took my wife in with me as a witness. Explained everything.


She said that in my case it was definitely worth it to try and fight this even more and possibly in addition to getting the fees lowered try to get the misdemeanor lowered to an infraction and just get off with a speeding ticket.

I asked her if it was worth it to do that or just take the offer. She said its worth it to fight due to the officer not showing up to court today and them not having a police report of the incident. (apparently with this type of case even if he doesn't show up they can't just throw it out)

So now I have another court date in a few months. In the mean time the Public defender chick is going to try to obtain the police report from the incident, look it over, have an investigator call up my wife and get a statement of what she witnessed, and try to work out a deal where I get a speeding ticket and a couple hundred bux fine total. Since I have a clean record I can take traffic school if they lower it to an infraction and get rid of the point (it would be reduced from 2 points to 1 if they lower it).



So anyway, I'm not out of the woodwork yet, but am pretty happy with how things went today, despite being on pins and needles all morning/afternoon going to the court house, waiting there, and just being so afraid and paranoid that I was sick to my stomach.

I don't mind the fee's as much as I don't want a misdemeanor on my record or the 2 points.




So anyways, more updates to follow but It looks like it won't be as bad as I thought.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:20 AM   #119
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PS: I find it interesting that my actual ticket says CVC 23109(2), the notice I got from court says CVC 23109(A) and when I came in and talked to the public defender today, the paperwork she had from the court stated CVC 23109(c).

a is "speed contest"
c is "exhibition of speed"

Two very different offenses. And I don't even know what the (2) means cause there are 2 2's in the CVC handbook. Both are completely different and have nothing to do with either (a) or (c)



Quote:
V C Section 23109 Speed Contests
Speed Contests

23109. (a) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle speed contest on a highway. As used in this section, a motor vehicle speed contest includes a motor vehicle race against another vehicle, a clock, or other timing device. For purposes of this section, an event in which the time to cover a prescribed route of more than 20 miles is measured, but where the vehicle does not exceed the speed limits, is not a speed contest.

(b) A person shall not aid or abet in any motor vehicle speed contest on any highway.

(c) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on a highway, and a person shall not aid or abet in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on any highway.

(d) A person shall not for the purpose of facilitating or aiding or as an incident to any motor vehicle speed contest or exhibition upon a highway in any manner obstruct or place a barricade or obstruction or assist or participate in placing a barricade or obstruction upon any highway.

(e) (1) A person convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 24 hours nor more than 90 days or by a fine of not less than three hundred fifty-five dollars ($355) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. That person shall also be required to perform 40 hours of community service. The court may order the privilege to operate a motor vehicle suspended for 90 days to six months, as provided in paragraph ( )1 (10) of subdivision (a) of Section 13352. The person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle may be restricted for 90 days to six months to necessary travel to and from that person’s place of employment and, if driving a motor vehicle is necessary to perform the duties of the person’s employment, restricted to driving in that person’s scope of employment. This subdivision does not interfere with the court’s power to grant probation in a suitable case.

(2) If a person is convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) and that violation proximately causes bodily injury to a person other than the driver, the person convicted shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30 days nor more than six months or by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(f) (1) If a person is convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) for an offense that occurred within five years of the date of a prior offense that resulted in a conviction of a violation of subdivision (a), that person shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than four days nor more than six months, and by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

(2) If the perpetration of the most recent offense within the five-year period described in paragraph (1) proximately causes bodily injury to a person other than the driver, a person convicted of that second violation shall be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than 30 days nor more than six months and by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

(3) If the perpetration of the most recent offense within the five-year period described in paragraph (1) proximately causes serious bodily injury, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (f) of Section 243 of the Penal Code, to a person other than the driver, a person convicted of that second violation shall be imprisoned in the state prison, or in a county jail for not less than 30 days nor more than one year, and by a fine of not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

(4) The court shall order the privilege to operate a motor vehicle of a person convicted under paragraph (1), (2), or (3) suspended for a period of six months, as provided in paragraph ( )2 (11) of subdivision (a) of Section 13352. In lieu of the suspension, the person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle may be restricted for six months to necessary travel to and from that person’s place of employment and, if driving a motor vehicle is necessary to perform the duties of the person’s employment, restricted to driving in that person’s scope of employment.

(5) This subdivision does not interfere with the court’s power to grant probation in a suitable case.

(g) If the court grants probation to a person subject to punishment under subdivision (f), in addition to subdivision (f) and any other terms and conditions imposed by the court, which may include a fine, the court shall impose as a condition of probation that the person be confined in a county jail for not less than 48 hours nor more than six months. The court shall order the person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle to be suspended for a period of six months, as provided in paragraph ( )2 (11) of subdivision (a) of Section 13352 or restricted pursuant to subdivision (f).

(h) If a person is convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) and the vehicle used in the violation is registered to that person, the vehicle may be impounded at the registered owner’s expense for not less than one day nor more than 30 days.

(i) A person who violates subdivision (b), (c), or (d) shall upon conviction of that violation be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than 90 days, by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(j) If a person’s privilege to operate a motor vehicle is restricted by a court pursuant to this section, the court shall clearly mark the restriction and the dates of the restriction on that person’s driver’s license and promptly notify the Department of Motor Vehicles of the terms of the restriction in a manner prescribed by the department. The Department of Motor Vehicles shall place that restriction in the person’s records in the Department of Motor Vehicles and enter the restriction on a license subsequently issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles to that person during the period of the restriction.

(k) The court may order that a person convicted under this section, who is to be punished by imprisonment in a county jail, be imprisoned on days other than days of regular employment of the person, as determined by the court.

( )3 (l) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Louis Friend Memorial Act.

Amended Sec. 2, Ch. 595, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.
Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 475, Stats. 2005. Effective January 1, 2006.
Amended Sec. 661, Ch. 538, Stats. 2006. Effective January 1, 2007.
Amended Sec. 3, Ch. 193, Stats. 2009. Effective July 1, 2010.
The 2009 amendment added the italicized material, and at the point(s) indicated, deleted the following:
1. “(8)”
2. “(9)”
3. “(l)”
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:00 PM   #120
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The law is that you're innocent until proven guilty...whatever that means anymore...

Your "public defender" sounds pretty worthless. She has offered you two solutions:
1. Guilty
2. Still Guilty
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