Give me one good reason to not switch-back to NA on my track car.
08-26-2012, 05:47 PM
#41
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Stop being delusional: if you want an n/a track car by all means build one, but don't kid yourself about basic bolt ons netting 180whp. It takes a fully built motor and tons of trick parts. Otherwise you end up with like 130-140 tops.
Emilio himself admitted in Crushers thread that this was no ordinary run of the mill motor iirc. That it was very 'spensive.
I mean if you want reliability and 180whp just throw a failtrex on there. But I've a feeling that you won't be able to do 130whp after doing 2xx for so long. Torque is addicting. At least to me.
Emilio himself admitted in Crushers thread that this was no ordinary run of the mill motor iirc. That it was very 'spensive.
I mean if you want reliability and 180whp just throw a failtrex on there. But I've a feeling that you won't be able to do 130whp after doing 2xx for so long. Torque is addicting. At least to me.
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08-26-2012, 06:59 PM
#43
Stop being delusional: if you want an n/a track car by all means build one, but don't kid yourself about basic bolt ons netting 180whp. It takes a fully built motor and tons of trick parts. Otherwise you end up with like 130-140 tops.
Emilio himself admitted in Crushers thread that this was no ordinary run of the mill motor iirc. That it was very 'spensive.
I mean if you want reliability and 180whp just throw a failtrex on there. But I've a feeling that you won't be able to do 130whp after doing 2xx for so long. Torque is addicting. At least to me.
Emilio himself admitted in Crushers thread that this was no ordinary run of the mill motor iirc. That it was very 'spensive.
I mean if you want reliability and 180whp just throw a failtrex on there. But I've a feeling that you won't be able to do 130whp after doing 2xx for so long. Torque is addicting. At least to me.
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08-26-2012, 07:10 PM
#44
I just want to clear something up with that motor. I never made 180WHP with it, but I believed it to be possible with a well made purpose built VVT head. I made 155whp with a tune that left a lot on the table. I think that it can be done, but cams, headwork, valves, springs, and the head itself was going to cost $2500+ and I just didn't want to do that at the time.
To do that motor justice, you really need a VVT head and MS3. You will get a huge bump in torque, even though it has a pretty good amount of torque already.
To do that motor justice, you really need a VVT head and MS3. You will get a huge bump in torque, even though it has a pretty good amount of torque already.
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08-26-2012, 07:43 PM
#45
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160. 180. Whatever.
If the turbo setup is this frustrating, ditch it. You then have two options. Super or NA. Super is off the table. So go NA. Is a 20WHP-on-the-internet argument going to change how fun the car is to drive with the existing NA setup?
* I would ask (and you have probably already had this conversation) is if a less restricitve turbine might reduce temps and thus increase longevity for the car and your wallet at the expense of a bit of transient response. Your setup is not exactly a T-25 though, so IDK how much is on the table there.
** Water injection? A moderate flow rate could last through a 20 minute session and lower EGTs/increase happiness.
If the turbo setup is this frustrating, ditch it. You then have two options. Super or NA. Super is off the table. So go NA. Is a 20WHP-on-the-internet argument going to change how fun the car is to drive with the existing NA setup?
* I would ask (and you have probably already had this conversation) is if a less restricitve turbine might reduce temps and thus increase longevity for the car and your wallet at the expense of a bit of transient response. Your setup is not exactly a T-25 though, so IDK how much is on the table there.
** Water injection? A moderate flow rate could last through a 20 minute session and lower EGTs/increase happiness.
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08-26-2012, 10:13 PM
#50
Crushers motor is expensive because it does a lot more than just make 170 whp.The torque and mpg it has are beyond what's possible with just bolt-ons.
Just making 170whp isn't that expensive and you can do it on pump gas.
I have read posts on forums from three different continents, all claiming BS on the power we report. It's kinda funny. I post approved dyno's from a national racing organization. Simple facts. I can only guess that the experts have either never tried to build a cost effective N/A motor or maybe tried and failed. The recipe is simple and it works.
m.net post with some cliff notes on N/A builds
MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!***
Just making 170whp isn't that expensive and you can do it on pump gas.
I have read posts on forums from three different continents, all claiming BS on the power we report. It's kinda funny. I post approved dyno's from a national racing organization. Simple facts. I can only guess that the experts have either never tried to build a cost effective N/A motor or maybe tried and failed. The recipe is simple and it works.
m.net post with some cliff notes on N/A builds
MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!***
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08-27-2012, 12:15 AM
#51
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Let me get this straight... you cracked a manifold and you are giving up? People are supporting this decision? Seriously??
Blow the sand out of your vagina, zip up your man suit, get that bitch welded up and keep slaying BMWs and Porches.
Blow the sand out of your vagina, zip up your man suit, get that bitch welded up and keep slaying BMWs and Porches.
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08-27-2012, 01:18 AM
#52
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I just want to clear something up with that motor. I never made 180WHP with it, but I believed it to be possible with a well made purpose built VVT head. I made 155whp with a tune that left a lot on the table. I think that it can be done, but cams, headwork, valves, springs, and the head itself was going to cost $2500+ and I just didn't want to do that at the time.
To do that motor justice, you really need a VVT head and MS3. You will get a huge bump in torque, even though it has a pretty good amount of torque already.
To do that motor justice, you really need a VVT head and MS3. You will get a huge bump in torque, even though it has a pretty good amount of torque already.
Thanks for selling it to John so he could sell it to me.
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08-27-2012, 01:23 AM
#53
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Crushers motor is expensive because it does a lot more than just make 170 whp.The torque and mpg it has are beyond what's possible with just bolt-ons.
Just making 170whp isn't that expensive and you can do it on pump gas.
I have read posts on forums from three different continents, all claiming BS on the power we report. It's kinda funny. I post approved dyno's from a national racing organization. Simple facts. I can only guess that the experts have either never tried to build a cost effective N/A motor or maybe tried and failed. The recipe is simple and it works.
m.net post with some cliff notes on N/A builds
MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!***
Just making 170whp isn't that expensive and you can do it on pump gas.
I have read posts on forums from three different continents, all claiming BS on the power we report. It's kinda funny. I post approved dyno's from a national racing organization. Simple facts. I can only guess that the experts have either never tried to build a cost effective N/A motor or maybe tried and failed. The recipe is simple and it works.
m.net post with some cliff notes on N/A builds
MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!***
I've made 120whp on a 1.6 with bolt-ons and good injectors, 130 on a stock 99. I think when we compare to the 99 engine, the header is good for ~10hp, the square top is good for another 10hp, and then we have the increased compression ratio so 150whp is totally doable, I predict more. I plan to get it on the dyno this weekend if I can get an exhaust made on Friday. I'm getting excited about this.
I suspect that when it comes to the 150whp NA class that either idiots are tuning the cars or owners are sandbagging. I'm a lonely virgin so I will post everything I do on the interweb to make friends and hopefully less the tears.
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08-27-2012, 01:57 AM
#56
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This is the kind of stuff that excited me when I built the turbo car. These days, I want to be nationally competitive. I'd like to get into TTD and see what I can do.
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08-27-2012, 02:18 AM
#58
Will I be severely detonation limited on 91 or 93 octane with this 11.5:1 compression ratio?
I've made 120whp on a 1.6 with bolt-ons and good injectors, 130 on a stock 99. I think when we compare to the 99 engine, the header is good for ~10hp, the square top is good for another 10hp, and then we have the increased compression ratio so 150whp is totally doable, I predict more. I plan to get it on the dyno this weekend if I can get an exhaust made on Friday. I'm getting excited about this.
I suspect that when it comes to the 150whp NA class that either idiots are tuning the cars or owners are sandbagging. I'm a lonely virgin so I will post everything I do on the interweb to make friends and hopefully less the tears.
I've made 120whp on a 1.6 with bolt-ons and good injectors, 130 on a stock 99. I think when we compare to the 99 engine, the header is good for ~10hp, the square top is good for another 10hp, and then we have the increased compression ratio so 150whp is totally doable, I predict more. I plan to get it on the dyno this weekend if I can get an exhaust made on Friday. I'm getting excited about this.
I suspect that when it comes to the 150whp NA class that either idiots are tuning the cars or owners are sandbagging. I'm a lonely virgin so I will post everything I do on the interweb to make friends and hopefully less the tears.
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08-27-2012, 02:35 AM
#59
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We have 93 almost every where. Trey get it up and running but as suggested many times above your going to need that VVT head to fatten up ther area under the curve. So don't freak out but keep your eye out for a deal on one.
Good choice, this will put you in a good class with NASA after a dyno reclass. Your going to have some good fun.
To everyone calling bullshit
1) log on to miata.net
2) advanced search
3) naturally aspirated, Emillio700
4) read noobs
Good choice, this will put you in a good class with NASA after a dyno reclass. Your going to have some good fun.
To everyone calling bullshit
1) log on to miata.net
2) advanced search
3) naturally aspirated, Emillio700
4) read noobs
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08-27-2012, 02:37 AM
#60
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I thought you guys had 93 in Texas? With a VVT head, there may be a few spots below the torque peak where you might not get quite to MBT before det threshold with 91. Depends on IAT's cam timing and a few other variables. We got 182whp on CA 91 with small race cams, BP4W, mild compression but that motor was on the ragged edge of det, sprint race tune.
93 in Texas, 91 in OK and LA. I'm probably going to tune on 91 this weekend and see what happens. John and I are going to tag-team the car so we expect to go through several tanks of fuel. I'm pulling a tire trailer so I guess I can hook-up the det cans on the way to the track and listen for det after tuning on 93 and filling-up with 91.
The only two rubber hoses left in the car are the fuel-pump feed lines so I could swap those and possibly run E85 too, but that's kind-of a pain in the ***. I like the simplicity of driving across the street for fuel.
On the dyno I'm going to tune it like I do all cars, add fuel until it stops making torque, then add spark.
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