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18psi 02-07-2018 12:00 PM

its called direct injection folks
and I think it's W/A, so somewhat intercooled

Full_Tilt_Boogie 02-07-2018 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by Schroedinger (Post 1465862)

... with a tiny hair-dryer turbo, and AFAIK not intercooled. Wow.


Its got a little liquid/air intercooler. Its actually really easy to overlook because the charge pipe runs behind the engine and the intercooler is tucked up under the intake manifold.
Im not sure if its using engine coolant or if it has its own heat exchanger and fluid.

https://dam.lexusasia.com/lexus-v2-b...ntercooler.jpg


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1465864)
its called direct injection folks
and I think it's W/A, so somewhat intercooled

I think most of these engines are running port injection under load and only using the direct injection for cruise and light load. Could be wrong though.

I bet the engines do probably have some crazy quench though.

afm 02-07-2018 12:03 PM

The first cat is twice the size of the turbo!

Schroedinger 02-07-2018 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by MrJon (Post 1465840)
I'm also guessing it runs an atkinson/miller cycle to up the efficiency.

The fact that I actually knew what you were talking about tells me that my college thermodynamics class wasn’t completely wasted.

18psi 02-07-2018 12:08 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 1465866)

I think most of these engines are running port injection under load and only using the dirst injection for cruise and light load. Could be wrong though.

I bet the engines do probably have some crazy quench though.

I've no experience with the 200t setup, but judging from their 4s setup on the twins it actually switches in various places/loads if/when needed.

And yeah the way DIT pistons are designed, it's a whole nuther ballgame that doesn't require fat afr to keep it together. way over my head

z31maniac 02-07-2018 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1465871)
I've no experience with the 200t setup, but judging from their 4s setup on the twins it actually switches in various places/loads if/when needed.

And yeah the way DIT pistons are designed, it's a whole nuther ballgame that doesn't require fat afr to keep it together. way over my head

Yep, at first some of the guys going after big power were plugging the DI ports on the twins because they couldn't figure out the tables and proper way to tune.

Then, like the N55 in my BMW it's DI only. So here in about 5-10k miles I get to do the walnut blasting of the intake manifold.

Efini~FC3S 02-07-2018 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by z31maniac (Post 1465828)
And the dumb thing is all these turbo motors only beat the gov't mandated steady state tests, in the real world they typically get worse mpg.

Not the case with these Honda turbo engines.

Do some research and you'll find people are getting stellar mpgs with the 1.5T engines.


Originally Posted by Schroedinger (Post 1465860)

If Honda’s claim of 16.7psi stock is to be believed, then the Hondata tune is running 25+ psi to get those power figures. Makes you wonder what upgrading to a bigger turbo would do.

I believe the Hondata re-flash is <20psi peak. Performance gains are a combination of More boost earlier in the RPMs, increased boost everywhere (not 25psi), and fueling and timing adjustments for premium fuel.


Also, like many recent turbo engines, the 1.5T seems to be underrated from the factory. Most people are dyno'ing at the wheels what they are rated for at the crank.


CR-V turbo compressor is slightly bigger and appears to be a bolt-on upgrade for the turbo civic


Check out www.civicx.com if you actually want to learn about these engines.

18psi 02-07-2018 02:07 PM

Until they power a non fail wheel drive car, no one will care

z31maniac 02-07-2018 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1465902)
Not the case with these Honda turbo engines.

Do some research and you'll find people are getting stellar mpgs with the 1.5T engines.

Are you just talking steady state on the highway? Or actually like most people's commutes that go through neighborhoods, surface streets, bumper to bumper traffic, etc?

Efini~FC3S 02-07-2018 02:14 PM

TL/DR - 270+ whp, 300+wtq using E85 (more like E45 I think) on a mostly stock car.

From a 1.5L...

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...668841483e.png

Efini~FC3S 02-07-2018 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by z31maniac (Post 1465905)
Are you just talking steady state on the highway? Or actually like most people's commutes that go through neighborhoods, surface streets, bumper to bumper traffic, etc?

real world commutes. Real driving.

Fuelly - Track and Compare your MPG

Looking at 2017 civics with 1.5T engine: data from 9,936 fill ups, 3,157,709 miles = combined average MPG of 34.06 +/- 0.11

2017 Civic EX was EPA rated 31/40, combined of 34.

So...looks like they were mostly spot on?



Efini~FC3S 02-07-2018 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1465904)
Until they power a non fail wheel drive car, no one will care


This times 100. I know this. I lived it. I tried...

When I worked at Honda R&D there was a group of engineers that every year begged to develop a rwd platform that would use the 1.5T and 2.0T engines. We knew the engines were coming, we knew they would be good. We knew if it was in a decent rwd platform it would be awesome. Every year we got shot down.

In Hondas defense, look at the sales of the new Civic and Accord. A rwd coupe or sporty sedan would sell 1/10th those volumes, if that. The masses want a torquey Civic/CR-V with a CVT. Not a six speed rwd sporty car.


Braineack 02-07-2018 02:37 PM

the new turbo motor in the accord is better. pretty much does what the v6 was doing.

DeerHunter 02-07-2018 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 1465917)
the new turbo motor in the accord is better. pretty much does what the v6 was doing.

I was curious about the new-gen Accord, particularly since it's still offered with a standard. I stopped by a dealer last week and they actually had one in stock and offered a test drive. I couldn't wail on it, for a couple of reasons:
  1. Mechanical empathy precludes me abusing an engine with only delivery mileage
  2. It was -20, the roads were still atrocious from a recent snowfall, and the car was on all-seasons

Still, it was an interesting experience, not least because I could row my own. The 2.0 liter engine is a detuned version of the one in the R and it runs on regular gas. Torque down low was little soft, but boost builds quickly and the car pulls strongly through the mid-range. While I didn't redline it, there was no discernible rolling-off of power at the top end. I did notice a bit of vibration at around 2,500-3,000 rpm but couldn't say if it was poor NVH control or a wheel out of balance due to packed snow. The transmission itself was just fine - Honda slick with decent clutch feel.

As for the rest of the car, it was a mixed bag. The "Sport" version (which is what your get if you want a manual) had some interesting variation on cloth seats. It was more akin to the top layer of a wetsuit but it was grippy and will probably wear like iron. The interior design was well done, with a digital dash and a prominent screen perched on the dash (albeit better integrated than most). Back seat room was cavernous - when "sitting behind myself" I had 6-8 inches between my knees and the front seat. Styling was okay, with the most controversial feature being the, uh, prominent front beak. Oh, and it's WWD.

Still, it would be a great cross-country touring car. I'm glad that Honda still offers a standard and I hope that enough people opt for one so that it'll continue in the next generation.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 02-07-2018 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1465904)
Until they power a non fail wheel drive car, no one will care

Hey some of us enjoy struggling endlessly with fail wheel drive

Braineack 02-07-2018 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by DeerHunter (Post 1465924)
Still, it would be a great cross-country touring car. I'm glad that Honda still offers a standard and I hope that enough people opt for one so that it'll continue in the next generation.

if you can stomach how ugly it is.

Toyota and Honda built boring plain cars for so long, they don't know how to keep up with kia and Hyundai -- rofl.

18psi 02-07-2018 04:31 PM

Umm, the toyobaru is not boring

z31maniac 02-08-2018 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1465945)
Umm, the toyobaru is not boring

And apparently the new Civic Type R doesn't even need AWD to compete with the Focus RS and all it's fancy drivetrain tricks.

Toyota is also working with BMW on a Supra/Z4 replacment to have a shared chassis.

Not like the old days, but it's coming around.

x_25 02-12-2018 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S (Post 1465912)


real world commutes. Real driving.

Fuelly - Track and Compare your MPG

Looking at 2017 civics with 1.5T engine: data from 9,936 fill ups, 3,157,709 miles = combined average MPG of 34.06 +/- 0.11

2017 Civic EX was EPA rated 31/40, combined of 34.

So...looks like they were mostly spot on?



So exactly what my Fit gets. But with more everything. Sounds nice.


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