Insight K20 swap
06-15-2011, 03:43 PM
#21
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K20 is hella lame, just a fan boy engine with a shitty transmission.
This insight is much more impressive, and it uses an engine that all the fan-boys think is useless, which makes it much cooler:
edit:
jeff_man beat me to it, but w/e
This insight is much more impressive, and it uses an engine that all the fan-boys think is useless, which makes it much cooler:
edit:
jeff_man beat me to it, but w/e
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06-15-2011, 04:29 PM
#25
Bisimoto has this retarded fascination with the single slammers, but one can't hate on them with the kinda power they're pushing through those things.
Also I think its great that more companies are giving the sohcs more attention because parts will become even cheaper than they already are and there will be more boosted single cammers putting down some good power. They're one of the few engines out there that are EVEN cheaper to boost than a bp yet put down more power.
Also I think its great that more companies are giving the sohcs more attention because parts will become even cheaper than they already are and there will be more boosted single cammers putting down some good power. They're one of the few engines out there that are EVEN cheaper to boost than a bp yet put down more power.
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06-15-2011, 05:38 PM
#29
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Not to mention the fact that the trans is terrible and that swapping one into a lighter chassis is a huge hassel because it barely fits, the sump is too low, and the axles are at an extreme angle.
Its a fan boy engine. Everybody loves them because its the new thing you do to be "baller".
Ill put it in Miata terms:
B,D, and F-series = MT.net
K20 swap = Club Roadster
You see a lot of people with Built K20s making 400-500hp turbocharged and everybody swoons over it like its some huge feat of engineering.
Yet you can take a D16Z6, put head bolts, rods and pistons in it, stock cam, stock head, with an ebay cast manifold, and an ebay turbo and easily break 400hp. Add a cam, sprigs and retainers and people have pushed to 600+ hp, all from a 1.6L economy engine.
Lets just put it this way. None of the fastest Honda drag cars are K series. Theyre pretty much all B series, couple Fs and V6s (C or J series) spread in there.
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06-15-2011, 06:21 PM
#30
No, but the fact is that almost any other Honda engine can do everything it can do for less money while being lighter, more reliable and less complicated.
Not to mention the fact that the trans is terrible and that swapping one into a lighter chassis is a huge hassel because it barely fits, the sump is too low, and the axles are at an extreme angle.
Its a fan boy engine. Everybody loves them because its the new thing you do to be "baller".
Ill put it in Miata terms:
B,D, and F-series = MT.net
K20 swap = Club Roadster
Recently people have been doing amazing things with the D series.
You see a lot of people with Built K20s making 400-500hp turbocharged and everybody swoons over it like its some huge feat of engineering.
Yet you can take a D16Z6, put head bolts, rods and pistons in it, stock cam, stock head, with an ebay cast manifold, and an ebay turbo and easily break 400hp. Add a cam, sprigs and retainers and people have pushed to 600+ hp, all from a 1.6L economy engine.
Lets just put it this way. None of the fastest Honda drag cars are K series. Theyre pretty much all B series, couple Fs and V6s (C or J series) spread in there.
Not to mention the fact that the trans is terrible and that swapping one into a lighter chassis is a huge hassel because it barely fits, the sump is too low, and the axles are at an extreme angle.
Its a fan boy engine. Everybody loves them because its the new thing you do to be "baller".
Ill put it in Miata terms:
B,D, and F-series = MT.net
K20 swap = Club Roadster
Recently people have been doing amazing things with the D series.
You see a lot of people with Built K20s making 400-500hp turbocharged and everybody swoons over it like its some huge feat of engineering.
Yet you can take a D16Z6, put head bolts, rods and pistons in it, stock cam, stock head, with an ebay cast manifold, and an ebay turbo and easily break 400hp. Add a cam, sprigs and retainers and people have pushed to 600+ hp, all from a 1.6L economy engine.
Lets just put it this way. None of the fastest Honda drag cars are K series. Theyre pretty much all B series, couple Fs and V6s (C or J series) spread in there.
There are tons and TONS of k motors making 450-500whp on bone stock long blocks. Local guy with a k swapped eg hatch with peakboost 35r kit is making 520whp on e85. Bone stock long block. For like 2 years now. There are a boatload of them out there in the upper 400's wheel on stock block.
B and D series engines cannot do that. Only engine that competes with that is the F20c from the s2k.
And no way in hell is a basic "log manifold" kitted D seires making 400whp on pump and 600+ with a few other parts. We just built a couple and in fact have one at the shop now and they're seeing a healthy 300 on 91oct when pushed (vitara/eagele simple/cheap build with basic log mani and medium sized turbo). for 400+ you'll need a complete build and a 35r+ turbo. For 600+ you'll need an all out built race engine with a shitton of headwork/etc powered by some crazy *** superzilla monstrosity of a turbo like Bisi has.
Its nothing like mt.net vs cr.net. When the **** is making more power a ricer thing to do? K>B>D. That is a fact. The K engines simply flow a bunch more than the others.
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06-15-2011, 06:33 PM
#31
To get back to the K20 swapped insight, I work with the guy who built this car. Funny how it's getting a lot of press because of Autoblog. I can tell you a couple things about the car.
A. It's well put together and it's a clean swap. This car was not built by some hack.
B. The car is properly quick and gets great gas mileage.
C. According to the owner the car is an understeering pig, worse than most FWD understeering pigs...
A. It's well put together and it's a clean swap. This car was not built by some hack.
B. The car is properly quick and gets great gas mileage.
C. According to the owner the car is an understeering pig, worse than most FWD understeering pigs...
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06-15-2011, 07:00 PM
#33
To get back to the K20 swapped insight, I work with the guy who built this car. Funny how it's getting a lot of press because of Autoblog. I can tell you a couple things about the car.
A. It's well put together and it's a clean swap. This car was not built by some hack.
B. The car is properly quick and gets great gas mileage.
C. According to the owner the car is an understeering pig, worse than most FWD understeering pigs...
A. It's well put together and it's a clean swap. This car was not built by some hack.
B. The car is properly quick and gets great gas mileage.
C. According to the owner the car is an understeering pig, worse than most FWD understeering pigs...
I'm curious what kinda times itd run at the track and what kinda gas mileage we're talking about here.
The understeer makes total sense: take away heavy battery from the rear and add weight to the front and you end up with some crazy *** distro like 60/40 or even worse.
Hell, I was about to get an s2k before my miata. Only reason I didn't was cause they are still up there in price and like 3x as expensive to mod.
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06-15-2011, 09:20 PM
#34
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That is horseshit. Sorry.
There are tons and TONS of k motors making 450-500whp on bone stock long blocks. Local guy with a k swapped eg hatch with peakboost 35r kit is making 520whp on e85. Bone stock long block. For like 2 years now. There are a boatload of them out there in the upper 400's wheel on stock block.
B and D series engines cannot do that. Only engine that competes with that is the F20c from the s2k.
And no way in hell is a basic "log manifold" kitted D seires making 400whp on pump and 600+ with a few other parts. We just built a couple and in fact have one at the shop now and they're seeing a healthy 300 on 91oct when pushed (vitara/eagele simple/cheap build with basic log mani and medium sized turbo). for 400+ you'll need a complete build and a 35r+ turbo. For 600+ you'll need an all out built race engine with a shitton of headwork/etc powered by some crazy *** superzilla monstrosity of a turbo like Bisi has.
Its nothing like mt.net vs cr.net. When the **** is making more power a ricer thing to do? K>B>D. That is a fact. The K engines simply flow a bunch more than the others.
There are tons and TONS of k motors making 450-500whp on bone stock long blocks. Local guy with a k swapped eg hatch with peakboost 35r kit is making 520whp on e85. Bone stock long block. For like 2 years now. There are a boatload of them out there in the upper 400's wheel on stock block.
B and D series engines cannot do that. Only engine that competes with that is the F20c from the s2k.
And no way in hell is a basic "log manifold" kitted D seires making 400whp on pump and 600+ with a few other parts. We just built a couple and in fact have one at the shop now and they're seeing a healthy 300 on 91oct when pushed (vitara/eagele simple/cheap build with basic log mani and medium sized turbo). for 400+ you'll need a complete build and a 35r+ turbo. For 600+ you'll need an all out built race engine with a shitton of headwork/etc powered by some crazy *** superzilla monstrosity of a turbo like Bisi has.
Its nothing like mt.net vs cr.net. When the **** is making more power a ricer thing to do? K>B>D. That is a fact. The K engines simply flow a bunch more than the others.
Also, if you dont think a D16 with a cast manifold cant make 400hp than you have not been paying attention, its been done over, and over, and over.
600hp on a log, not so much, a tubular would be required, but overall minimal mods are needed.
K20 is fan boy ricer peice of **** GM reject and I ******* hate it and I ******* hate that everybody thinks its the best thing in the world when it has NOTHING on a B or F series except for good factory cams.
The ITR was only 20hp short of the K and it did it with 200cc less displacement and a head that can be taken apart in 10 minutes.
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06-15-2011, 09:24 PM
#35
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Just a little data:
Stock z6 head
Stock z6 IM
y8 block with Vitara pistons and eagle rods
Cast drag manifold
t3/t4 57 trim .60/.63 ~25psi
3" open downpipe
street tuned on cromePro
Probably cost like a grand for everything, thats like the cost of a header for a fag20
Stock z6 head
Stock z6 IM
y8 block with Vitara pistons and eagle rods
Cast drag manifold
t3/t4 57 trim .60/.63 ~25psi
3" open downpipe
street tuned on cromePro
Probably cost like a grand for everything, thats like the cost of a header for a fag20
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06-15-2011, 09:58 PM
#37
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Of course it has those things, they go without saying. The injectors have nothing to do with the capability of the engine.
The simple fact is that even an engine with poor NA output can make for an awesome turbo engine, and you cant beat a dirty D for bang for your buck
The simple fact is that even an engine with poor NA output can make for an awesome turbo engine, and you cant beat a dirty D for bang for your buck
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06-15-2011, 11:27 PM
#40
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I gotta tell ya... That honda lawn mower works a hell of a lot better than my Mazda lawn mower. The Mazda B series engine could be the biggest piece of **** on the planet and I'm perfectly content with the fact they're not made by Honda. Lawn mowers, ATVs, Crotch rockets, and generators are all they're good for in my opinion.
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