ITT: Stupid People Doing Stupid MS Things to Old 'Merican Iron
 

We should probably have a subforum for the greatest pickup trucks known to man.

I nominate EO2Gay as moderator, and then I'll have somewhere to post my super awesome body swap. (No I'm not getting a sex change)

EO as autofellator? body swap?

Paging Monk

Body swap:

New build in the making. - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

See poll :)

Good looking truck! Looks way better than my 73. My pops has a sweet 68.

I had no idea this was even a thing. lol

@Monk & @gesso ?

Oh hey there.
I see I'm late to the party.

We should maybe change the thread title now because this is going to broaden in scope.
The reason for reviving is this:
fuel only tbi conversion
Basically, we all have old ass carb setups, and would like to "cheaply" convert to a very basic fuel injection system and use megasquirt to control fuel only.
For my part, I am going to try to find everything in the junkyards and document as well as I can.

Absolutely needs a title change. :bigtu:

And yes, this is why I tagged Gesso. He has a 390FE powered beast that needs some fuel only love as well.

Yay!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e679fed184.jpg
This + TBI + MS would be awesome!

I'm so jealous of that car :drool: :party:

Yeps! I'm in exactly the same boat. I was actually considering hitting the pick-n-pull this weekend just to see what I could find before I start buying random things off the internet. Fairly certain I don't have anything else going.

Title change idea: "ITT: Stupid People Doing Stupid MS Things to Old 'Merican Iron"

:giggle:

That leads me to my first question.
What is the most cost effective megasquirt to buy off the shelf for this.
I have an old ms1 lying around, and I think Aidan has an ms2, but for the average booger picker who is tuning in, what is the absolute minimum for controlling fuel?

I feel like you could do it with a Microsquirt and a relay board? It does not require a lot of I/O to get this done.

@afm, didn't we talk about this earlier?

I have no spare MS stuff, so I'll be looking for a cheap option as well. I was kind hoping we would all end up buying the same one and then looking over each others shoulders and copying notes, but I understand that cheap is cheap.

I'd be willing to do that for science.
I imagine most people looking at this will be truck guys who are afraid of pixies and the confounding pathways they take to make electronicals chooch.

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/...-to-efi/costs/

This says ms2 + relay board. for a plug in and go. An MS1 would probably work though.

Ms1 PCBv2.2 diy kit is $169 list.
Ms2 PCBv3.0 diy kit is $279 list, as opposed to the listed price of $247 in that article. :(

Looks like the Microsquirt now comes in its own housing thing? $339 with harness, and you would probably still need the relay board, right?

https://www.diyautotune.com/wp-conte...microsqrt3.jpg

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...iring-harness/

I mean, it's not like this isn't the original design intent of the MS1 at all or anything like that. Adding single point TBI to distributor timed cars. Nope. Not at all.

We are aware.
This is a place where we can demonstrate what we're doing with slightly different rigs and with cheap parts.
It's helpful to have the information in one place.
Also, megasquirt has evolved just a tad since the early 2000s.

Watching with interest...

I have a '92 Bronco and I'm planning to replace the Ford EFI with MS if I ever get around to rebuilding the engine. I'm planning the full Monty, though... crank fire/ COP, etc.

It's waaay down the list of projects, but I don't feel too bad, considering how old the thread is... I was surprised to find out my login still worked at the FTE forum... hadn't logged in since '13... :rofl:

Do I need to start spending money on this, too? I was just thinking of selling it...

Haul from the PickNPull today:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5d26b8141d.jpg

Also shown: 2 speed Volvo fan relays for 3.8 Thunderbird 2 speed fan swap. :party:

Eo2k is a fag
 

Id vote yes with the option that I am modofelator. Fuk that gordon fella.

Uuughhh, I free'd up the fast idle linkage(was stuck and kinda rusty) and adjusted the choke to center and now the car just fast idles all the time and will die if I sit at stop lights in gear for too long. I'm over this shit. Going to order the TBI adapter plate and fuel pump and shit.

I'm thinking DIY MS2 unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Sounds like a good plan to me, although I'm surprised someone with your skill isn't just making the plate.

Yeah, I mean it's probably monetarily worth it to make the plate, but the time investment doesn't make sense for $38. If it fits poorly I'll send it back and make one from aluminum :party:

So my summit order looks like this:
TRD-2210 TBI Adapter, 3-Bolt TBI to Square Bore Carbureted Manifold
ADO-219-607 Throttle Body Repair Kit (I'm not 100% sure this is the right kit, but it seems like it)
ATX-E8094 Fuel Pump - 17PSI and 50 GPH, should be fine without a regulator and includes mounting brackets and hose barbs
SUM-390561 Fuel Injection Hose Clamps
CEL-65152 Fuel Injection Hose
KNN-PF-1300 Fuel Filter (I'm only going to put one pre pump)
PRO-302-290 Fuel Pump Block-off Plate (I'm sure there are cheaper ones, but this one called out the it's compatible with the 390FE)
VPE-17193 P-Clamps for the fuel line

Given how fast summit is at shipping things, I'm sure I'll still be hemming and hawing about which MS to get by the time it all arrives.

He actually ordered 2x if everything, because we enable each other like that :giggle:

Where is @Ben, doesn't he still work for DIY? Can we get some sort of MT/DIY hookup love going on the MS front? :love:

Ok, so my shit is going to get a little weird because I have a dual tank setup, but I want to run this by you "people" before I get too far down the rabbit hole.

This is a super generalized "flow" diagram of how the factory system is setup on my truck:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8edcbb0988.jpg

There is no regulator, and everything is gravity fed from the tanks in the rear all the way up to the engine mounted mechanical fuel pump. Simple as dirt, right?

(73 & 74 are "special" in that the dual tank models included a brass tank selector valve that is mounted to the floor next to the drivers seat. If one tank runs dry, you reach down and turn the handle to select the next tank.)

So with the TBI there is a pressure regulator mounted inside the TBI unit itself, right before the injectors, and there is a return line that I will need to add. Because I've got dual tanks this complicates things immensely. I can't just return to one tank because it then becomes a transfer pump, and eventually I'm going to overfill the tank with the return and start pumping fuel out the vapor vent in whatever tank I'm returning to. I don't have the mental bandwidth to remember to "use main tank first" or whatever. I really don't want to complicate my setup by adding 2 more ridiculously long fuel lines and another tank valve, so I've been having a think about this.

I've read "on the internet" (everything you read on the internet being true and all) that all you need to do is add a T on the suction side of the TBI pump and run your return line into the T. Because the engine is always using some amount of fuel, it shouldn't build any pressure in the return and you are good to go. This sounded too good to be true, so I started doing some reading. It turns out this may or may not be the way to do things, so I'm slightly nervous about setting it up this way.

After thinking about it for a while, I've come up with this:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1178bb9a06.jpg

Perhaps "accumulator" is the wrong word for this, but its what I stuck on the drawing. My main concern would be getting a bunch of air trapped in the "accumulator" and building pressure that would keep fuel from gravity feeding from the tanks. I could put an atmospheric vent in the "accumulator" that would allow it to vent, but it would need a check valve to prevent the pump from just sucking air. The line for that vent would have to go up higher than the highest point in the fuel system (lest it gravity drain) and due to the height of the engine, we are now talking a fuel line that runs up past the top of the hood. Plus this adds stupid complication that I don't want to deal with. Maybe the "accumulator" doesn't need a vent? Maybe it just needs to be purged of air occasionally?

I'm very curious to get some input on this from the brain trust. :party:

Also, before you all go batshit insane, I know Ford made a reservoir/tank switch assembly that they used on 1980's dual tank F250/F350s that would take care of this problem. The part number is F1UZ-9B263-B and unfortunately they are quite expensive new:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~aMAA...2jB/s-l500.jpghttps://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zHEAA...2i4/s-l500.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-For...B/302173280449

And I've never seen a dual tank anything in the junkyard. Anecdotal evidence (again, the internet) also says they tend to be quite failure prone. It feels like a bad idea to design a system around a somewhat rare and possibly failure prone part. K.I.S.S. and all.

I'm unaware as to how other manufacturers do this, but I'm open to suggestions.

I tuned one of those microsquirt setups you linked above. Until the crap wiring job the owner did set that unit on fire. Literally
It was basic and really easy to work with

Clearly you need an arduino monitoring the level senders in both tanks and controlling a valve that directs the return flow into the appropriate one. You could replace the manual feed valve with an electronic one while you're at it. :)

--Ian

A second brass valve that selects return to each tank mounted next to the other valve. Whenever you switch one you switch both.

So... bonus points for the Microsquirt, just don't be an asshat with the wiring? :giggle:

Actually, while we are here, does @18psi want to tune these things? Fuel only, you'll have no control over the timing. Should be fun, right? :likecat:

No, because:

While your dual valve thing would work, I'd prefer not to do this because:

The real problem with running individual returns back to the tanks is that I really have no desire to drill the tanks for a return nipple. Getting to the tops of the tanks might actually require bed removal, and I don't have the space or tools to do that. If at all possible, it's something I'd really like to avoid.



To me, the "accumulator" idea seems like the simplest solution. If you guys don't think it'll work, I'd love to hear why.

Most fuel tanks have a vent tube up in the filler neck not too far from the fuel cap. If you use that location for your return you will likely do okay.

I thought about T-ing into that, or the filler hose itself, but then I'm still installing a second valve and 2 more return lines. :sad2:

As predicted...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2e638d8f02.jpg

So MS2?

Yeah, we should probably figure this out. Any one have any input?
@Monk? @aidandj?

I'm a cheap bastard and feel like the MS1 would get the job done, but don't have a problem with an MS2. Again, it would be nice to share notes.

@sixshooter, were you going to come play with us too?

What can I do for you? I'm certainly following this discussion but I don't know what I can add.

You posted your project and asked if you needed to start spending money on it. The answer is obviously yes, so I assumed you would be playing along?

If not its cool, I just didn't want to leave anyone out from the stupid TBI funtimes :bigtu:

IF I started screwing with it it would be port injection and not TBI.

But I'm undecided at present.

Ok, I gave all my TBI stuff to @gesso for safe keeping last weekend, he probably has it all up and running already. :giggle: