Just read this up on another forum. Becareful guys.
 

http://www.socalsubies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4677

http://www.socalevo.net/forum/index.php?topic=96751.0

It's so sad. Make sure you guys are extra careful when working on your cars.

from socalevo:


"A friend of mine, Paul Flores passed away today (5/1/10). He was being kept alive by life support and today after his last complication was disconnected from life support.

Here are all the details that we have.

At about 1:00PM 4/30/10 Paul was changing the diff on his S2000. From what it looks like, Paul only had the back of the car on jack stands. We think the car shifted or rolled forward causing the jack stands to be kicked out allowing the car to fall on Paul. The weight of the car collapsed one of his lungs and he was suffocated. He then lost consciousness, lost pulse and stopped breathing.

Nobody was aware that Paul was trapped under the car and consequently was out of oxygen for anywhere from 20-45 minutes. Paramedics and police showed up and rushed him to the local hospital. Paul was later transferred by Mercy Air to Loma Linda hospital were he underwent surgeries and treatments for his injuries. Paul remained at Loma Linda hospital until he quietly passed away at 2:45PM 5/1/10.

Paul was not alone in his final hours/minutes. He was surrounded by a hospital floor full of loving family and friends. So many so that security asked some of us to leave.

Paul Flores will be extremely missed"

That is really sad. My dad has always warned me about being careful. Damn, this shouldn't have happened...

Man... That sucks. That is one reason I don't work under my car unless someone else is around.

I gotta chock the wheels more often when I'm working on my car.

Saw this on a few forums today. Definitely why I have the ebrake on if working on just front, or front wheels chocked if working on rear.

This happened to my buddy a few months ago. However he was working on a camaro which didnt drop enough to actually kill him. He was actually able to phone for help and was fine after they pulled the car off of him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3-ehGDOyw

As for the s2k guy, I'm very sorry to hear this happened. One second you are concerned about the LSD in your car, the next your dead. Its complete bullshit that this has to happen to anyone. Be careful guys.

that really sucks, a real horrible way to go out.....


BIG +1

or put the car on all 4 jacks and triple check its stability...

Damn, thats sad. This is why I always put the whole car on jack stands and leave the jack up for extra insurance...

Always sad to hear stories like this :(

I always use jack stands + wheel chocks + e-brake, and I'll leave the jack under there with very light tension (if it's not in my way). Also, if I take any wheels off I slide them under the pinch welds just in case. I'm almost always home alone while working on my car, so extra caution = good idea.

I always use chocks but I still worry about this.

+1... I do like the idea of taking the wheels off and tossing them under near where the pinch welds are though.

i do that with shitty wheels..... :D

do u think they will part it out?

I do some pretty ghetto lifting/support methods, but I at least try to have redundancy with my ghettoness. At least push a wheel and tire under it, or concrete blocks to at least give me room to not be crushed to death. I just don't trust regular jack stands. Always seem too tall with too narrow a base, especially when you are pulling wrenches really hard under the car. Which is why I use blocks and pieces of 2x10 either under the frame rails, or under the tires, and back that up with the additional blocks under the car. In a car as light as ours, I'm not worried about the blocks failing like I might with something that weighed twice as much. Especially with the 2x10 absorbing any concentrated forces that might over stress the concrete.

+1. I've become awful at remembering to do that.

That's the only reason I don't like RWD cars, annoying and nerve racking to work on the rear end, as both transmission and parking brake are rendered useless when lifting the back end.

If possible, I try to lift one end at a time, obviously not possible for a diff change, sorry to hear about this guy.

Watch out for concrete blocks!!! I had two break on me a while back working on a car. I was sitting in front of it when it fell flat on the ground. It would have killed me!!! Two or more safetys always help. E brake with chalked wheels, jack stands with tires under nieth, and a friend to be there is always good. Be carefull guys, but if you do go out, at least it was doing what you love or you wouldn't have been under there in the first place!! Better then in a hospital wearing depends. In my job I see a lot of death. I can only hope to go out doing what I love, helping another, or just plain having fun. Only ways to go!!!

My concrete is stronger...

On top of the blocks, I also (if I have enough room) leave the jack under it. If not I at least put an 8x8 wooden block under the frame rail. At least give me enough room to breath if it did drop a few inches.

Not that I even work on cars anymore. Since the rebuild, I have only been under the car once, and I don't recall what for. Otherwise it was just sway bar end links, which I could do from beside the car, laying under the bumper.

So sad. :( This is one of the reasons I've always felt a little safer working under fwd cars. On one of my S13s a couple years ago I had a similar event happen but luckily I wasn't under the car. It squished one my jack stands a little when the car came down and I still keep that one around to remind myself to be careful. I too slide the wheels under the pinch welds when they are removed from any car I'm working on.

Sucks.... RIP.

Any details on how he had the car supported? Actual jack stands? On a flat, level surface? I've never had an issue with anything moving at all once its set down on the jack stands, the friction has always been too large even if I bump the car/push it a little.

Guess i should stop getting under my prelude with scissor lifts...

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...1/preludes.jpg

All four on stands when working on the rear end. Safety first. I have had my car fall off jack stands before but I was young and stupid (working on it in a gravel driveway) and was lucky enough to learn my lesson. I still get goosebumps when going under a car though.

Which one? And yeah. My scissor lift got thrown away, because it was useless. Replaced with a bottle jack. Makes me want another Prelude, I miss mine so much.

RIP. I use two jack stands and always keep my rolling jack up and around me. Can't be too careful when underneath a vehicle.

On that note, almost had a 240sx kill me at the shop I used to work at. It was on a 4 arm hoist, all the way to the top. Went underneath it to drain the transmission fluid & start disassembly(doing an sr20 swap), and then the rear quarter panel caved in. The car dropped a bit before it caught enough metal. The owner found the car in a field and yah, it was rusted to hell. Not cool.

It's funny that you say that.

My one really stupid wrenching mistake was about 15 or 16 years ago. I was changing the transmission oil on my '71 Beetle, and for whatever reason, decided just to raise it up with an old scissors jack. So I'm down under the car wrenching on the transmission trying to get the damn drain plug out, and sure as shit, I rocked it right off the jack and the car fell on me.

Now, Beetles have a fair amount of ground clearance (and I was thinner then) so it didn't really injure me, however there was no question that I was stuck under the car and clearly not going anywhere. Fortunately, this took place out in the driveway, so eventually my shouting attracted one of the neighbors, who very kindly jacked the car back up so that I could get out from under it.

After that, I became really ---- about jackstands.

I don't mean to laugh, but that is pretty funny. I would have been the asshole neighbor who once realized you weren't in too much danger, I would have teased you a bit first.

i know lots of peolple have the same names and all, but i used to talk to a kid with that same name when i was into car audio...... ill have to try and look him up, hopefully its not him...

Or that time where your drive shaft bolts came loose, and we put half your car on a curb to get it up.

That is really sad. I always make sure to have 2-3 fail safes. No matter what I always use all 4 jack stands, either 2 on the pinch and 2 on the subframe if just working on front or rear, plus the jack where I can find room. Also always keep my cell within reach.

I tried to use this thread to get the lift purchase past "one who must be obeyed". Tried it when I started on the V8 car knowing I would be under it for months. Same end result.

Just slide that wheel under the pass side. It's worth chewing up a rim if the jack fails.

I am not poking fun here at all, just making sure that I have been doing it right. I would only get under a vehicle once on all four jack stands. On RWD jack up the front first and then the back. I also use 6 ton jack stands for my little Miata for the wider base, makes it more stable. I use a floor jack with long handle so that I am not under while rasing the jack.

Be carefull people and learn from other peoples mistakes, as I try to tell me son... you won't live long enought to make them all yourself.

RIP

In high school a friend of mine was working on his buddies mini truck. Remember those?

He had a floor jack holding it up, with jack stands under it, but not quite supporting the weight. The floor jack failed and the truck landed on the jack stands bouncing them out of the way. The truck fell on him flat. Broke all the bones in his face, collapsed a lung, and he was in coma for like a month. Totally screwed him up.

Best $1400 you will ever spend:

http://www.lightweightmiata.com/beast/gap/gap10.jpg

Supply a link to that nifty invention!

http://www.kwiklift.com/

I've had mine for about 5 years now. Have yet to find a job I couldn't do on it. I do pull engines when the car is sitting on the ground because my engine hoist is too short but that is about it.

Just checked and it is $1539 shipped now instead of $1400 (not sure what I actually paid years ago including shipping).


Just so you know, the rear lifts up with a floor jack and then locks in place. We usually keep it in the "ramp" mode and park the MSM on it.

http://www.kwiklift.com/New/IMAGES/w...vyDuty-350.jpg

that is pretty nifty actually.. if it would fit in smaller garages.

I stopped using jack stands unless absolutely necessary after being bitten by a freakin black widow that was nesting in one of mine. If I'm doing something like an oil change where it's not going up far, I use my hydraulic jack and shove a block or something of the sort under the subframe and get to work. Otherwise I have plenty of places I can use lifts when necessary.

You could not just lift it off? Pump some iron man. :giggle:

Seriously though, the thing about that is that everyone has a time or 20 when they just ducked under the car with nothing but a jack, knowing it was stupid. I just helped a freind change a flat (just getting home now), sure enough the stupid styrofoam tool holder thingy blew under the exact center of the car. I am continualy amazed at the wonderous physics that dictate that any object dropped, rolled, blown, or disturbed in any way while within 50 feet of both myself and any automobile will end up under the exact geometric center of the vehicle. It's uncanny.

My stupid ass did the following:

Tell freind:
"This is a huge no-no, never ever go under the car when its supported only by a jack."

And I then quickly got in there and pulled out the styrofoam.

:eek3:

The tires idea is a great one. They are free. disposable, easaly slide under hard points and can be moved around. Cinder blcoks are useless, hit one with a hammer some time, at like half force. It wont even slow down a 1 ton car. Wood blocks will be much better.

Grease pits FTW.

Quick, switch a 1.6 diff for a 1.8! Oh wait, my $40 in jack stands and jack just kicked your $1400 metal strips' ass.

HUH? What do your jack stands do better than my lift? I can get all four wheels of my car 21" off the floor in about 2 minutes (including pulling it into the garage). Putting jack stands under just the front of my '91 was at least a 10 minute job. Hell, my floor jack wouldn't even fit under my '91 unless I drove it up on some wood blocks. You must not understand how my lift works.

Quick, pull the wheels off your Miata while it is on jack stands (without firing up the compressor and using a impact wrench). Hmmm, guess you are going to have to let that thing back down. I'll never have to go through that shit again. I can say that I have only lifted a car with jack stands one time since buying my lift. Just the thought of going under there wrenching on stuff scared me so badly that I'll never do it again. Once you get a car under something really solid and safe you don't ever want to mess with jack stands again. I can find a lot of people who don't own a kwiklift who talk out their ass about it being junk or not being able to handle jobs. The two other people I know (both are in my local Miata club) who have one swear by them and recommend them to their friends. We do two tech days a year at my house and work on probably 10-15 Miatas each time using my lift. I've never heard one complaint and never had anyone ask where my jack stands were.

This is a complete thread drift, but I'm just not of the opinion that your "lift" is worth $1500. Yes you can lift it up 21" in minutes, but you can't get the wheels off. With my electric impact gun (hand me down from my dad), a $20 jack and a $20 set of jack stands I changed all four wheels in 15 minutes, and that was a snail's pace.

I apologize for:
A. The thread drift, and,
B. Making my response sound like such an insult. Merely a difference in opinion. Carry on with the RIPs and what not.

Again, it is amazing what people come up with who do not own and who have not ever seen my lift. Do you honestly think that something I called "the best $1400 you will ever spend" can not be used to remove the wheels? If the car were on the ground could you pull the wheels off? Doesn't the car sit on steel beams when on the lift? Same thing. I pull the wheels with a small hydraulic jack and a 6 x 6 block of wood. The only difference is that I can then crawl under the car and safely remove the tranny after I am done. I am not trying to insult you, just showing that your opinion is unfounded. If you used my lift for a day you would never go back to using jack stands again. I used a friend's kwik lift to change my clutch and bought my own two weeks later. A friend came over and used the lift to flush his brake lines and had his wife buy him one for his birthday a month later. It is that nice (just hard to describe in a thread)...

Whenever these threads pop up, I post the following that happened a few years ago as a warning...
A coworker of mine had his neighbor die while wrenching on his CRX. He was a certified Honda mechanic doing an axle swap in the driveway. He was using his brand new Snap On jackstands that have a round base and the theory is that they tilted and rotated. Here's a pic:
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1173/snaponfr3.jpg

I agree with all those tips everyone else mentioned. Be careful out there guys!

Here's the e-mail from my coworker who was present just after:
My friends who work on "low to the ground" cars.

We had a very unfortunate event yesterday afternoon.
Our neighbor Mark across the street was a mechanic at Tipton Honda. He was out on his driveway working on his Honda CRX front suspension and changing axles. At some point the car came off the jack stands and landed on Mark's chest. We're not sure how long it was before he was discovered but we got word last night that it killed him, likely right away (massive internal damage - upper thorax).

I went over after the emergency response folks were gone to see if I could figure out what went wrong and take some photos. Mark had just purchased some new Blue Point jack stands and floor jack - very well built equipment. I noticed the base on the jack stands were made of a thick, circular steel plate unlike the usual 3 or 4 legged jack stands he'd been using for years and that most of us use.

It occurred to me that if he had been torquing on a large suspension bolt and got the jack stands to tip a little, their base would become a wheel and roll out from under their intended point of support with very little side load. Witness marks on the concrete support this theory. 2 arcing scribe marks in the driveway ending at the now tipped over jack stands (one had been moved before I got there - passenger side).

If you've heard of any problems with these stands (or had them yourself) be careful

Seems to me this argument is remotely similar to the "two post vs. four post lift" debate. When some see the car being raised by the tires vs. the frame, they see an obstacle. There was a group-buy going on at the garagejournal forum for a low ceiling two post lift at $1500 delivered. That would be more useful to me.
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...-1375659_w.jpg

that was funny. At least i had a bunch of you around to save me...

I do that too. have to admit though, I have worked under the car with only one end on jack stands and no wheel chocks. Won't anymore.

That's what I was lobbying for.

I can see the value of the Kwiklift.

Bless this kid's family. Shit like this really sucks to hear.

One thing I discovered last week is that you should clean your rubberized jack saddles and jacking surfaces every now and again. I had my jack start to slip on the oily k-member and it scared me straight.

This is why I always put all for up if im getting under the car. And then I literally push my weight into the side of the car to nearly rock it to make sure its stable.

Damn, hard to hear about this happening to a fellow enthusiast.

I also put all four up. I not only do a "body check", but also take my rubber mallet and tap each jack stand on each side to make sure they are not loading one side of the legs. You will be very surprised sometimes how a stand that looks flat can still be almost an inch out of center.

I also jack up each side incrementally to make sure the car goes straight up instead of "arcing" up which will tilt the jack stands on one side. Yes it takes longer, but I have to be really really careful since my daughter likes to peek under the car and "help". I value the time with her, and taking extra caution is worth it all around, even if it means I won't get everything planned done that day.

If I ever build my garage I'll get one of those as well. After using my lift for all these years the 2 post looks like it has too much shit to get in the way but I never really have used one. One thing that has going for it is that you can stand up when looking under the car. Has to be better than laying down all the time feeling around for wrenches.

Seriously. Change a clutch in Evo or a EGR plate on a new TDi while on stands. You will discover new muscles never before used.