Legalization (420 y'all)
 

<3 California
:fawk:

San Francisco - The Snitch - Legalize It: Ammiano to Introduce Legislation Monday to Allow Pot -- and Tax It

Ammiano wants to make marijuana legal in state



I know theres alot of californian residents here, whats up guys? ^^

Prohibition has never worked :jerkit::jerkit:

This wouldn't last 30 seconds in the U.S. Supreme Court. State laws can not override federal laws.

I don't smoke weed but I think it's a great idea to legalize it and tax it. More revenue for states, competition leading to a better product, less drug related crime, and I'm sure there are more good reasons.

From what I've heard them talking about this proposed legislation on the radio, the same rules would apply to it as alcohol. Must be 21+, no driving under the influence, etc.. I think it's been a long time coming. It has potential to be one of the biggest cash crops in the country.

I would love to have an adult and educated discussion about marijuana.

I personally smoke, but not like most would assume. For me pot is my Budweiser, or my Marlboro, or my Motrin. If I'm super stressed about something, I'll smoke. If I come home from work and I cant feel my arms, I'll smoke. I learned the hard way about driving around burnin one and being careless. Now its much more of a recreational type of burnin one.

I'd like to think in my lifetime, pot will be legalized. Whether it is or not, its not stopping me from buying it or smoking it. :)

I love cali:D

yay!

I don't smoke, never have, never will. Can't stand the smell of anything except race gas burning.

Ignoring $1.3 billion a year in tax revenue is retarded, though, and with the current federal administration, getting those laws changed isn't totally unreasonable.

In my mind, pot causes few, if any, social problems and the ones they do cause are mostly due to the legality of the substance (shady dealers, fear of cops, etc). So many people use it right now anyway that we might as well set up some guidelines in which people could use it in a responsible manner.

+1 for tax income and less money spent trying to put pot dealers in jail, which in turn costs tons of money spent on prison housing, and also possibly cut down on gang activity.

never done it, and probally never will. but after seeing friends that do it, i really don't see any reason at all why its illegal. taxing it would be a great money maker.

win win situation

Not exactly. State laws can't override federal laws, but they can't override the states legislation unless its unconstitutional or interstate related.

They can however prosecute on a federal level as they have before with medical marijuana laws.


p.s. smoke weed erryday

$50.00 tax per oz, what is a oz worth in the states, the money would be rolling in for the state, up to $800 tax per pound lol, its a bit funny really you make legal then tax the shit out of it and then you have created a whole new problem it will force the price of weed up and make it very hard to collect the tax.
I think a better way would be to sell people a yearly license to grow say 3 plants for personal use only, if caught with more then 3 plants you get a jail term, maybe by doing this way you may elimitate the dealers ????? and still make money for the state.

Dr.

300-400$ per oz on bud. Tons of money to be made.

yea thats sounds about the same downunder for indoors shit, but it can drop as low as $150 per Oz when there is a glut on lol lol, at least our laws are not as bad as yours, as long as you are not caught as a dealer its just a on the spot fine none of this jail time shit.

Dr.

Its somewhat similar in most states here. However the problem is, they use quantity as a method of determining if you were planning on distributing. So essentially, if you're carrying more than a dime bag, you have intent to distribute according to Johnny Law.

p.s. I swear to god I don't smoke. I did it once as bet when Obama won office.

How would be possible to collect a tax on a product that could be grown by anyone? If it becomes legal, a private individual would be able to grow their own. It's not like growing your own tobacco and making your own cigarettes. It would encourage businesses to process it and sell it on the open market. They could be taxed if it was regulated where you would have to purchase a license to grow and sell and it.

I really don't see how you could make it legal without also making illegal for the masses who wold want to grow their own.

KMag

I think that is what they will (or should) do...make it legal to buy (and tax the sellers) but illegal to grow on your own.

You are probably correct, but unless they can produce and sell it for cheap, I don't see it stopping the illegal trade. They would have to be able to drive the cost down so far that the illegal drug cartels would give it up. At best, they would just make it more affordable for those who do use it, but I don't see it ever being able to be controlled. The network that provides it now, is already established and it would be real hard to shut that down.

KMag

I used to smoke a lot but I don't at all anymore. I can't get shit done if I do. But if I drank all the time it would be the same. It's with out a doubt less destructive socially then booze is. Legalize it. So much money is wasted fighting marijuana use.

+1

I wish there was a women's perfume that smelled like burned race gas.

Thats 2 threads now that I'm like wtf this guy knows what I'm thinking




Anyway, I dont seehow controlling or limiting the personal use would be an issue if they legalized it.
I've never done it, but see plenty of people brewing their own beer, however they aren't sellng it, otherwise they'd need a license to do so.
Same goes for the garden in my backyard, doesn't make me a farmer.

I'd see it being a huge industry actually, adding to alot of whats currently out there. It'd pretty much be a stimulus of its own seeing how it'd be tied into alot of existing business-(growing/farming, transport, sale, accessories, etc...)

And from my POV, I don't see cost for the buyer being much of an issue. Let's face it, we all find ways to come up with money for weed, beer, ciggs. Shit here in NY ciggs are $8.50+ a pack!!!! Compared to Fl @ -$4 a pack, I see just as many smokers.

Lastly, it'd seem like there'd be some money to be saved in this "war on drugs" campaign. I mean cmon, war on drugs has been going on forever, consumes huge amount of money, but in reality it goes nowhere. Anybody having a tough time finding a source for your poison?

Sure, it can be grown by anyone, but how many cigarette smokers do you know who grow their own tobacco plants to avoid cigarette taxes? Once it's no longer necessary to hide it altogether, many won't go through the hassle of tending to their own crop.

And most buyers wont go thru the risk of getting caught going thru illegal means when they can buy it in the open, even if it commands a higher price

Also, don't forget about the other great uses for the hemp plant other than the leaves. It is one of the strongest natural fibers of any plant on god's green earth. Can be used to make cloth, paper, and all kinds of other shit. Would allow farmers to make a decent living again.

There are 0 bad reasons for it to be legalized as long as it is regulated like alcohol.

That is what I said. It's not like growing tobacco. Tobacco is more involved than just growing it. It have to be cured a specific way, and blended a specific way. Pot, you grow it and cut and smoke it. You know Kentucky was the tobacco capitol of the world. Now it's not, although it still is a major cash crop for the state.

A few years ago, Woody Harelson came to Louisville to try and promote the cultivation and use of Industrial Hemp and he got locked up. The cops were not amused when he tried to plant some hemp during a publicity stunt. Of course, Industrial Hemp cannot be smoked, but you know how those police are.

The only thing I'm saying is that unless legalizing it brings the price way down, I don't see the illegal trade of it changing.

KMag

KMAG - Are you against legalizing? I don't see an opinion either way in your replies. Assume that even 1% of illegal sales is taken away from drug traffickers. Is there any downside to that? Are there any downsides in your opinion to legalizing it?

It is my opinion that there will be massive sales because of reasons mentioned before. A regular consumer will make a legal purchase even if it more expensive because it is legal, it is easier, they are to lazy to grow themselves, probably a few more obvious ones.

Most drugs, legal or illegal, can in fact be made at home. How many people do you know or reasonably think even roll their own cigarettes, brew their own beer, hell.... grow vegetables? Like 0.00001% of the population, maybe.

I didn't want to take the for or against stand, but I'm not against legalizing it. I would say that it would be a good idea. Hell, we were saying the very same thing 35 years ago, but all the people working on it couldn't remember where they left the legislation.

Also, don't forget the other drugs that come into the country like cocaine and heroin. So the "war on drugs" will keep on going. If you could take one of them out of the equation, I'm sure it would help. I just don't see how it could be controlled in a way where it would benefit the state with a revenue base. Maybe it could, but I would have to see it to believe it.

KMag

I've never smoked, never been against it though...I have way too many friends who do it. There is sooooo much money to be made with this America is fucking retarded if they don't do something about it. I mean shit! It seems like almost everyone smokes! Everyone at my job, my ex did, the girl I'm dating now does, I have some friends that do. It's not just the crowd I hang out with either...Honestly, if they did legalize it I would probably start. I've gotten many a contact high and wouldn't mine doing the real deal....lol

Dopes for dopes
 

Never smoked, never will.

Living in the Keys gave me a first hand experience on how fucked your life can be on drugs.

Fo trill racing:fawk:

My experiences are my own, so dont call me out because I dont want to go into detail here.

ACTUALLY, this may end up there, and it may end up being an issue among many for the rising issue of state sovereignty.

Lawmakers in 20 states move to reclaim sovereignty

State Sovereignty Bills | MND: Your Daily Dose of Counter-Theory

HJM 4009 - 2009-10
(WA States claim)

HCR 0006
(newhampshire claim)



Although the above is quoted by Arizona, approximately 28 states have joined, or are expected to join the movement.
Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, California, and Georgia have bills/claims already completed, or currently in progress.
These states claim infringements of the 10th amendment of the constitution, which states that the government of the United States has the power to regulate only matters delegated to it by the Constitution. Other powers are reserved to the states, or to the people



Hip hip, hooray!

Personally, I think a person can do whatever the hell they want just as long as it does not infringe on anybodies rights, safety, wellbeing etc, in private/your own house.

:vash:The hell if some government is going to tell me I cannot consume a substance which has NEVER KILLED A SINGLE PERSON via overdose, harms my lungs/body less than cigarettes, and is now prescribed by 13 states (almost 14!!) as a safe medicine:vash:.
It's not addictive, and in combination with a vaporizor, every negative aspect of smoking is eliminated.
I'm not saying people should do drugs, but if you are going to do one , pot is the best bet, imho ;)

Some people crack open a beer at night, some people a glass of wine. I've even heard of people smoking tobacco to relax.
But me, I've got Cannabis.

Do what you want, but be safe. Don't drive intoxicated.

you have some very good points there mate, As we all know we live in a democracy But we are told what we can do and how to do it and when to do it, Law are pass to protect us which is fair, but sometime this protection can go to far, Maybe one day a polly family member is killed by a car with a turbo and then decides that all turbos should be banned because they are dangerous to the general public and then it will be your guns like they did to us in Oz. Anyways i am an a old fart and i like to have a rant now and then lol

Dr.

This just shows how fucked up Cali is. They want to make pot legal so they can tax it and get the $. How about drilling off the coast to get the real $$$$$$$? Liberals are retards!

I agree with everything you said. Except I don't smoke weed.

I bought a vaporizer. :)

Fyi by vaporizing instead of combusting you not only consume more thc, but you dont consume any carcinogens or CFC's.

It's already more or less legal in CA. You need a prescription, however my understanding is that they are not terribly difficult to obtain. Lists exist of doctors who are relatively liberal in their standard of diagnosis, and who will write you a scrip for just about any marginally documentable condition. Here is one such guide: CA NORML Medical Marijuana Information

Once you have the prescription, you have three basic options. You can purchase genuine medical-grade stuff, which is not inexpensive (at upwards of $250/oz) but it pretty much the best stuff on earth.

You can grow your own. Yup, you're allowed to possess up to 12 immature or 6 mature plants, and to possess up to 8oz of dried product, by state law. Some localities have higher limits.

The third option is to frequent a co-op. The legality of these clubs is the matter of some debate, however they do exist in the open, and since it is not illegal to possess, once you have made the actual purchase, you're clear.


In general, I don't see much of a problem with this.


As far as legalizing it wholesale (ie: the cigarette model) I'm a bit torn on the issue.

I don't see much wrong insofar as the primary effect is concerned. So long as there are certain safeguards in place (such as treating use while operating a motor vehicle in a similar manner to DUI) I don't see anarchy breaking out overnight.

On the other hand, there is a secondary effect which concerns me slightly. At present, a preponderance of distribution in most areas is handled peacefully and in a civil manner by a confederation of loosely-organized gangs and hippie-types. The advent of retail distribution will result in a catastrophic disruption of the income streams presently enjoyed by these individuals. My concern is that the former group may simply adjust their business model to less benign forms of revenue generation, while the latter (having a somewhat more advanced grasp of basic chemistry) may simply step up their activities a notch.

Some would argue that this "loose confederation" is the product of illegalization, and some would even call it "organized crime".

If we can take marijuana out of people's hands and put it in a store and require an ID, underage use will fall imho. Treat it like alcohol. Although kids still get alcohol, they must get a 21+ year old (or a crooked clerk) to sell it to them. If we tax and regulate the drug, it will fall out of the hands of career criminals, and into that of law abiding citizens.

Are you suggesting, that if marijuana were legal, these herb-centralized men would turn to illegal drug manufacturing?
I'm not sure how to combat the idea that legalizing one drug creates a higher demand for another, but I would think that with this influx of billions of dollars, we could spend a bit on education/rehab, and treat every other drug as a health issue, rather than a criminal justice issue.

I'de also be interested to see the usage trend among other drugs in the wake of legalization. I'de bet on a reduction of demand and use, and a drop of price across the board. This means less money to be made, less risk involved, and less murders because of illegal chems.

It certainly would mean alot of cartel, gang, and criminal organizations will be out of jobs if they cant make money on marijuana. Perhaps a legitimate job?

A new industry will arise in the midst of marijuana legalization, new jobs, and lots of tax. Its a win-win.
Regardless of if you smoke or not, we need to fight for our freedoms. There is no reason it is not available to us (it was Legal, like all drugs previously, and it took an act of law among propaganda and fear and racism to prohibit) and we owe it to the constitution to keep the gov in check ;)

We can all agree that our prison/jail systems SUCK, and we resocialize no one, but we are pretty good at creating bad ass criminals from it. So, why is it that we keep sending non violent drug offenders there?

how powerful are the cotten and paper manufacturing lobbies? I'm sure they'd like to see it stay illegal.

Forming regulation for a pot industry would probably be pretty tough. This couldn't be a "it's legal now, go for it" type deal. Think about how much the tobacco industry has changed over time because of gov't. However, if it is legalized, I think it should be treated almost exactly like alcohol, with the only major issue I see there is that of second-hand smoke. (I for one am not interested in getting a contact high because I went out to eat at a restaurant that allows use).

If it's not treated like alcohol, you've got a lot of issues that will arise -- for instance, what will employers be allowed to do if you test positivie for THC on a piss test? Will it be legal to disqualify an applicant because of that?

I think there is some merit to the idea, but it needs to be very well thought out and implemented, with realistic plans to replace the existing network. Tax should not be absurd, and prices need to be able to compete with street prices...I don't see it being an easy feat to replace an existing system, nevermind the sovereignty issues.

I don't think a few of you are really thinking this thru. If it was made legal the present network would fall apart in no time. I don't smoke the stuff (though I would if it was legal) But I for damn sure am not going to bother tracking down a dealer when the stuff is at 7-11. Nobody else will either. Kids would still need it, but there is a ton of underage drinking going on in this country and I know from experience it aint moonshine.

It could/should be treated just like tobacco. Same age limit, same tax rate, and all the booze laws regarding driving ect. Believe me if its at the gas station for, oh say, $10 a pack, Nobody is going to grow their own anymore than we grow our own fruit/veg. Its only expensive because its illegal. The stuff grows like a weed in the right conditions and would be cheap with industrial farming methods.

If it comes to pass, then it will be manufactured and taxed. After a few years the state of California will sue "Big Pot" for knowingly selling a known carcinogen to be consumed. There will be a big court battle and the state will get a "medical settlement" to supplement the state health care costs and that will cripple the manufacturers.

Then what happens?

Well, looks like I'm no longer a mary j virgin. This new chick smokes a lot and well it was only a matter of time. It wasn't that bad...didn't do much for me though. I definitely wouldn't pay a shitload for it...but if it was legalized and at the local 7/11 then yeah...I would probably pick it up.

I think there are just to many good points for legalization, and so few (if any) negative ones for a debate here...this is more like a rally, lol

I'm just yet to see 1 valid point for not doing it, everything mentioned can be addressed properly with correct regulations in place. We all know it cant jsut be a free for all.

Yee for this legislation if it goes through, but boo on the 21+ thing. If I can be drafted I want to be able to smoke a bowl.

I really think that the system in Amsterdam is a model that we should follow.

They limit the sale of weed to 5g or less per store, which means if you want more, you gotta go find another store to pick up another 5g or less. This seems to cut back on alot of the regulatory problems associated with it.

Well with the huge amount of people behind the support for many reasons... one being just the taxes and the lack of funding to keep it off the street. You may see a lot more supports in Washington as they may fear the lose of there job if they don't vote for what the people want.