"new" FM II in person, why I say BEGI is better
#41
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Have you seen the parts layed out in person?
Have you actually seen one installed in person?
Have you touched the components to compare them to the reinforced silicon used by APS and other subaru and Mitsu manufacturers?
Have you touched them and compared them to o'reillys "disel truck" reinforced silicon?
I have, and to the feel the are quite a bit more flimsy. How much will they expand I do not know as I have yet to see them on a dyno. All I know is i have seen thicker parts expand on the dyno, although they were on larger motors with turbos that pushed more cfm's that what FM is using
I not a FM or BEGI fan boy. I waited till I actually saw the components before I said anything. Am I saying that for the price it is not worth it, no not all all just that after seeing it I know whom (not that i doubted it before) I would say has better construction (to my taste). Not saying that I did not have my own "ghetto" fab parts on my old car.
#42
My point is that even though it might not look well engineered it could still perform very well. It might look well engineered but might not perform worth crap. Until the kits have been around for a while and some back to back testing has been done making any claims about how much better one is than the other is purely speculation and opinion. Which you are entiltled to.
And for the record I have seen neither setup in person. That's why at this point I will wait to form my opinion until further data is avalible. Even if I had, would it matter or have any bearing on the ultimate performance of either setup?
A lot of controversy is surrounding the silicone pipes FM is using. I wish they would do a back to back dyno with the squishy pipes and hardpipes and put this to rest.
Same thing goes with BEGI's divorced waste gate DP. Is it actually better than a bell mouth style DP? Unless I missed it I have seen any data to say either way. But a lot of people through that around as a good thing as well. Same goes for the Xede vs Link. Is one better than the other? What criteria? The Xede could very well be better and cheaper than the Link.
Perhaps I used words a little to strong in my other post, I wasn't meaning to offend anyone.
I just re-read this and I'm coming off as an FM fanboy, I'm not honest. Maybe I just like to play devil's advocate a little too much.
And for the record I have seen neither setup in person. That's why at this point I will wait to form my opinion until further data is avalible. Even if I had, would it matter or have any bearing on the ultimate performance of either setup?
A lot of controversy is surrounding the silicone pipes FM is using. I wish they would do a back to back dyno with the squishy pipes and hardpipes and put this to rest.
Same thing goes with BEGI's divorced waste gate DP. Is it actually better than a bell mouth style DP? Unless I missed it I have seen any data to say either way. But a lot of people through that around as a good thing as well. Same goes for the Xede vs Link. Is one better than the other? What criteria? The Xede could very well be better and cheaper than the Link.
Perhaps I used words a little to strong in my other post, I wasn't meaning to offend anyone.
I just re-read this and I'm coming off as an FM fanboy, I'm not honest. Maybe I just like to play devil's advocate a little too much.
Guess I dont know @#$%.
Have you seen the parts layed out in person?
Have you actually seen one installed in person?
Have you touched the components to compare them to the reinforced silicon used by APS and other subaru and Mitsu manufacturers?
Have you touched them and compared them to o'reillys "disel truck" reinforced silicon?
I have, and to the feel the are quite a bit more flimsy. How much will they expand I do not know as I have yet to see them on a dyno. All I know is i have seen thicker parts expand on the dyno, although they were on larger motors with turbos that pushed more cfm's that what FM is using
I not a FM or BEGI fan boy. I waited till I actually saw the components before I said anything. Am I saying that for the price it is not worth it, no not all all just that after seeing it I know whom (not that i doubted it before) I would say has better construction (to my taste). Not saying that I did not have my own "ghetto" fab parts on my old car.
Have you seen the parts layed out in person?
Have you actually seen one installed in person?
Have you touched the components to compare them to the reinforced silicon used by APS and other subaru and Mitsu manufacturers?
Have you touched them and compared them to o'reillys "disel truck" reinforced silicon?
I have, and to the feel the are quite a bit more flimsy. How much will they expand I do not know as I have yet to see them on a dyno. All I know is i have seen thicker parts expand on the dyno, although they were on larger motors with turbos that pushed more cfm's that what FM is using
I not a FM or BEGI fan boy. I waited till I actually saw the components before I said anything. Am I saying that for the price it is not worth it, no not all all just that after seeing it I know whom (not that i doubted it before) I would say has better construction (to my taste). Not saying that I did not have my own "ghetto" fab parts on my old car.
#51
Frank said:
"Call me silly but I'm guessing FM tested their IC piping with a compressor, a regulator and some PVC caps before putting it in their kit and selling it."
Then Arkmage said:
"If I was told that they did indeed do this test I would withdraw my previous arguements."
So I picked up the phone and called FM. The hoses are silicone to withstand temps of over 900 degrees F and they are kevlar reinforced to withstand high pressure. Bill spec'd them out with their supplier and he's out sick today so I couldn't get the actual pressure spec. However, look at the Samco link in this thread above and you can see that a 70mm hose of theirs is built to stand pressure of about 132 psi. That hose would blow off the car before it blew up. I want to see the turbo that puts out 9 bar on a Miata.
Look, do you really think FM would go to all the trouble of developing a new system and overlook something that basic? They've only been at this for over 16 years. So some FM hater says "lookee, I can squeeze these tubes so I don't *think* they'll work". Some of you guys are so intent on bashing FM for any reason that you can't allow that there might be a possibility that they did something right.
I await your well-reasoned, FM-bashing response.
"Call me silly but I'm guessing FM tested their IC piping with a compressor, a regulator and some PVC caps before putting it in their kit and selling it."
Then Arkmage said:
"If I was told that they did indeed do this test I would withdraw my previous arguements."
So I picked up the phone and called FM. The hoses are silicone to withstand temps of over 900 degrees F and they are kevlar reinforced to withstand high pressure. Bill spec'd them out with their supplier and he's out sick today so I couldn't get the actual pressure spec. However, look at the Samco link in this thread above and you can see that a 70mm hose of theirs is built to stand pressure of about 132 psi. That hose would blow off the car before it blew up. I want to see the turbo that puts out 9 bar on a Miata.
Look, do you really think FM would go to all the trouble of developing a new system and overlook something that basic? They've only been at this for over 16 years. So some FM hater says "lookee, I can squeeze these tubes so I don't *think* they'll work". Some of you guys are so intent on bashing FM for any reason that you can't allow that there might be a possibility that they did something right.
I await your well-reasoned, FM-bashing response.
#53
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We don't typically outright bash FM here. Just in-depth analysis on this new kit. I'm sure 90% of the member here has bought something and had good experience with FM. If this had been any other company putting out this kit the same "bash" would exisit.
People have some crazy ideas about what goes on here, from reading one or two posts.
People have some crazy ideas about what goes on here, from reading one or two posts.
#54
I'm cwisenheimer everywhere. I haven't posted here but I've read more than a few posts, enough to see that "we don't outright bash FM" is a dubious claim. For instance, all I did was pick up the phone and actually call FM to ask about the supposedly flimsy hoses. That's much more direct and productive than voicing an opinion that a product is doomed to failure based on the assumption that flexible hose cannot be strong (which is a false assumption). For another instance, look at the first post in this thread or look at the topic line of this thread. Maybe I haven't read enough posts to see other suppliers bashed as much or based on such flimsy logic. Could be. If so, that's not really such a good thing either.
#57
Either way, the real answer to all this is "dynoed rwhp/$" and "long-term reliability". Neither answer is yet available from an independent source for BEGI or FM so there is no valid reason to claim either one is definitively better, only opinions.
#60
We don't typically outright bash FM here. Just in-depth analysis on this new kit. I'm sure 90% of the member here has bought something and had good experience with FM. If this had been any other company putting out this kit the same "bash" would exisit.
People have some crazy ideas about what goes on here, from reading one or two posts.
People have some crazy ideas about what goes on here, from reading one or two posts.
If anyone wants to give FM a hard time let's talk about the love of purple, what the **** is that all about?