thirdgen

iTrader: (26)

DISCLAIMER..I have been drinking Wild Turkey 101 all day (happy thanksgiving!), which is the best Bourbon on the planet...so pardon me if I get a litttle out of sorts.

So I got into a debate with this cheesehead at work the other night...let me elaborate. There were 3 of us. Me who used to be a die hard GM muscle guy, my esteemed college Mike who is a Mopar guru...in fact his father I think mass produces the Mega Squirt? Or something like that...anyway...then there was Joe. Joe is from a hole in the wall town in Northern Pennsylvania. The coolest car he ever owned (if you could call it that) was a 1986 Mustang GT with a ram air hood. Joe does not understand why me or anybody else would "soup up" a Miata. I explained to him, the definition to me of hotrodding is taking a slow car that was built for more than it was released as, and making it perform like it should have been designed for, such as the Miata. This is a car that was built for so much more, but at the car dealer it was more like an economical alternative to a FWD car. I don't understand why people dub these cars as being "gay." They are light as hell, RWD, and most of them are manual trans cars. They are easy to modify, and cheap to do so. Slap a turbo on a Miata and it is ***** to the walls. Hell some stock motors handle what, 18psi? That's F'n crazy. Anyway, Joe claims, "I don't get it...ownin a muscle car used to mean somethin, that's all...now any smacked *** can throw a turbo on a Honda Civic and call it a race car." I told him...DON'T YOU EVER, EVER associate me in that category...FWD and 4 seats isn't even the same thing. If you want to categorize, put me in with a Porsche Boxter or a Vette, or a Viper for that matter. I also explained...as far as I understand, camaro's, Nova's, Chevelle's....they are heavy cars, and they all have 4 seats. I know a lot of Muscle cars that can't even run mid 13's. So I said...if you think it "mean's something" to own a car like that...what's it gonna mean when my "gay miata" just ran 1.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile faster than your V-8 muscle car? Plus I just drove it to work all week and got 31 miles per gallon while you were getting 12! So stubborn Joe said, "I just down get it...that's all."
Mike says, "I drag race a 1967 Plymouth Baracuda that runs 9.5's, (has a stroked Hemi, soon to be fuel injected with EMS-Pro for FMU)...I support your cause. You go with the times, and understand that fuel injection and fuel management units are the way of the future. Your car is only put in a category cause it says "Miata" on it." So Mopar Mike understands because I am all about performance...I don't live in a world of 20" rims with spinner hubs and DVD screens mounted on headrests. I just thought of this...how many people with muscle cars monitor their air fuel ratio? If changing jet's in a carburator are so easy, then wouldn't you want your engine to be as efficient as possible? In my eyes, efficiency = power. So **** Thickhead Joe. Some people are ********* with no knowledge.
I'm done ramblin...anybody ever drink Ice 101? This **** tastes like a capful of listerine swallowed whole!

18psi

iTrader: (76)

holy ******* mouthful batman.......I read it just because I'm bored, but you def need some cliffs.

ps: you should kick joe in the head

thirdgen

iTrader: (26)

I should, cause Joe is a ***** assed homo.

thirdgen

iTrader: (26)

Kick Joe in the head or change the title to "One toke over the line?"

naarleven

iTrader: (2)

Don't call civics ****** either. They can be made just as fast for prob the same price. Only diff is fwd. Go watch a swapped CRX destroy autox and drive one. They're ridiculous fun.

But yes I'm with you. Whenever a car guy asks what I drive, I say "2000lbs, RWD, Turbo, 10 to 1 lbs to hp, LSD". Whats so gay about that?

Archetype

So...if you can catch up you can complain about it?

That's my theory anyways.

l_bader

See this is the great thing about automobile hobbists; semantecs.

You've got the purists. You know, the folks that want a car cherry and numbers matching. They're the guys that develop an eye twitch when you tell them you put a '60s Chevy 427 punched 40-over in the '33 Ford.

Then you've got the "no-replacement-for-displacement", "if-it-ain't-american-muscle-it's-crap" myopic crowd. A great example is the Bozo bitching about all the "rice" at the Texas Mile, only to have his bubble popped by the guy who killed his speed by 20mph in a WRX wagon.

There are "Continent Snobs", divided into the Asian, European and Big-Three camps. See most any Porsche owner is you don't understand this category.

Some are dedicated to the look and sound, with many who actually create art (and more that create pure, unadultrated crap...).

There's the off-roaders, divided into the rock crawlers, sand shieks, mudders and (more often than not) stuck amateurs.

Some are speedfreaks, looking at terminal velocity, aerodynamics and saltburns. (I still can't believe the Brit who's attempting 1000mph. One twitch and he'll tumble for a least a mile...)

Don't forget the weekend racers with the cars dedicated to tri-ovals, dirt tracks, auto-x's, 1/8 & 1/4 miles and road courses.

And then there are, as ThirdGen has noted, the Hot Rodders. The gearheads who want to engineer more from ANY given platform. Balancing parts, measuring to the 0.001-inch and debating thermo benefits of varying alloys, much less finding room in the engine bay for a couple extra cylinders...

Any category can find its posers and all-show-no-go wannabes. Any category can generate its Legends. And many of us have blurred the lines and earned the label of more than one category.

The trick is educating the narrow-minded...

- L

Archetype

Well written ^

i think the worst part of the automotive segregation is that its never ending.

that list above can go as nutty as the "rat look" in VW's versus the true patina hood rides of aircooled. Thats why I gave up Badge-humping many years ago. Find something I like, and enjoy it. BMW VW Mazda whatever.

Every car has its purpose. My 1965 VW 13 Window Deluxe Bus ensures that I cant ever mow a large patch of grass in the yard for example.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

Nice summary I_Bader

Saml01

iTrader: (9)

Nicely put,.


I have just one question, where are the ricers?

Archetype

Oddly enough, I noticed most of the posuers have cleared out from the Fast and Furious hype (about time). 90% of the people around my area are true car people, with a scant few trying to keep it alive for some stupid reason.

"Rice culture" had a very negative effect on the car community as a whole, starting with the police force. Any car running around with obvious mods was shoved into a vague group they created. This was because kids with grapefruit shooters, wings and obnoxious aero parts that served no purpose, were racing everything from minivans to special needs children on tricycles. Any action that seemed to imply racing (chirped tires, etc) instantly meant that racing was instantly happening. Tickets galore for the ignorant, but many were given tickets that didnt create a textbook definition of "exhibition of speed".

Im glad they are almost extinct.

icantthink4155

iTrader: (12)

Joe is a douche, has he even been for a ride in your miata? Maybe he will stfu when you slam him back into the seat (not like that you homo!) Some people dont seem to understand that sometimes even the shittiest car can be alot of fun to drive. Which I doubt many mustangs fit into that catogory.

ZX-Tex

iTrader: (15)

I had an 86 Mustang GT. It was a decent car, and actually practical with the hatchback and the fold-down rear seats. Mine got 20-25 MPG depending on how aggressively I drove it.

BUT my turbo Miata, with the exception of the practicality aspect, is a much better car and more of a performance car if you ask me. The Mustang would have required a lot of modification to handle like the miata for example/.;

l_bader

...Though some could be considered hotrodders with a need to add visual focus.

- L

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

What you are looking to do is define the new gen of enthusiasts who enjoy a broader range of vehicles.

I've got a muscle car. Grew up with them. They have a sound, feel and appeal very different from my Miata. I'd love to put a modern suspension and a twin turbo big block in one of those old tanks and hit the track. I also appreciate original cars, rat rods, euro's, old sports cars, new sports cars, race cars, drag cars, etc.

The word Hotrodder originally was guys taking junk and making something fun of it. The old bucket T's for example. "Hotrodders" have now moved into high dollar rides. All that trailer queen, show only, chrome everything $150,000 BS. That word for me has been ruined.

Tuner is another word that has been ruined. A true tuner in my book adds performance and performance only. Tuning is supposed to make a car better. Unfortunately that word is now associated with the replace every body panel, custom interior, 200k watt stereo crowd.

Enthusiasts looking to make any car handle better, accelerate faster, stop quicker and perform beyond it's original design need to have a new classification. Don't know what it will be. Whatever it is I'm sure just like every other term used for auto nuts over the years it too will be ruined.

Maybe just the term Car Enthusiast covers it. When you go to more narrow terms, hotrodder, muscle, tuner, ricer, racer, etc. it keeps people out. Those terms are used to exclude people as much as include.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

baker's > maker's > trailer trash turkey

kodiak kid

I am only posting in here to further confirm the "hot-rodder" definition...

My previous build = 1994 Ford thunderbird V-8

Stock 1/4 = 16.4
When I was done = 13.7

this was done with driveline mods and a little headwork...no power adders. When I first started, this guy in a mustang slammed me every time at the track...until the last time. I was happy with a 14.8 (Big improvement over a 16.4)...He told me I'd be better off going grocery shopping...

Next time out, ran a 14.4, backed by a 14.38...He was running 14.4s, 14.3s...so we were a "good" race....

After the sticky tires and a different set of gears....13.7 to his 13.9.

To me, its not about being the fastest...but about making the biggest improvement. My truck runs a 13.3...but its stock, so I have made no improvement. I was happier running high 13s in my tbird, then I am running low 13s in my truck...I dunno, call me weird or something.

naarleven

iTrader: (2)

And who here thinks youtube car videos are ruined by all the fanboy ------ry.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

This is my way of thinking. And funny thing is, I did a 302 swap into my 94' t-bird when I was 15.

thirdgen

iTrader: (26)

I understand that. My car went best of 16.09 at 84 mph the first time I drag raced it. All that I did to it was remove the A/C, replace the CAT with a pipe of pipe, and I think that was it. The last time I went it ran 14.6 at 99 mph on a SR20 T25 with 7psi and a voo-doo box with a stock clutch that slipped a little in 2nd and 3rd. So my guestimate is that with a ACT Xtreme clutch and a good FMU with 12 psi, I should run hopefully a 12.9. This is my goal. So a more than 3 second 1/4 mile difference, and at least 20mph means a lot to me. To cheesehead Joe, "what's 3 seconds?" To me, it's a staging lane equivelent of car lengths, but not just that. It's the gain of knowledge, the fun of the sport, and the loyalty of the hobby. This is HotRodding.