kotomile

iTrader: (24)

So, I've been convinced by a few members via PM to post a thread on my Halloween decorations this year. Of course, like anything political here, this can get out of hand quick, so if you fancy yourself a liberal I encourage you to click "back" on your browser.

oconnor

Nice!!

y8s

iTrader: (8)

click back...

no.

if I think your pumpkin is a piece of negative and untrue propaganda, I'll say it and risk it getting out of hand.

i'm just tired of the bullshit spread around by the right wing crazies and even more tired of the party letting it continue (and feeding it). you and I both know obama's not a communist, marxist, socialist, or whatever flavor of the week they claim.

Would you rather have a president who acts like a president or one who just slings mud and doesn't actually talk about his policies?

however, my opinion is only worth one vote... but the polls STRONGLY suggest a lot of people feel the same way. why do you think the more the bullshit goes on, the larger the polling gap becomes? because people are tired of it. the reality is that rather than carving prevarications into large squash, those who vote for someone else ought to reconcile themselves with having him as their leader.

I will post current numbers to assist my point.

all from Pollster.com - 2008 Election Polls, Trends, Charts and Analysis .. no polls for any area filtered out.

Some states that even *I* never expected to see turn into swing states are in this list. Leader bolded.
Montana: R 47.8%, D 44.4%
North Dakota: R 41.3%, D 44.9%
Missouri: R 46.6%, D 48.4%
Indiana: R 47.7%, D 46.8%
Ohio: R 44.1%, D 49.7%
Virginia: R 43.8%, D 51.8%
North Carolina: R 46.9%, D 48.8%
Georgia: R 48.5%, D 45.9%
Mississippi: R 49.4%, D 42.4%
Florida: R 45.5%, D 48.3%
Iowa: R 41.3%, D 53.0%
Colorado: R 44.9%, D 51.5%
New Mexico: R 43.9%, D 50.4%
Arizona: R 48.6%, D 40.6% (threw this in because the state went "lean")

The rest are solidly blue or red and available on pollster.com's website. It's worth a look regardless of who you vote for.

secretsquirrel

Are polls the same as votes?

levnubhin

iTrader: (30)

Correct me if im wrong but didnt the person who was loosing in the polls win the election in like the last 4 or 5 presidential elections?
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kotomile

iTrader: (24)

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

- Barack Obama

"From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needs."

- Karl Marx

kotomile

iTrader: (24)

Mind you - I'm not what most would consider right-wing. For instance, I am pro-choice, against the teaching of creationism in schools, etc. When it comes to the economy though, I'll need some solid evidence that Obama is not the new Chairman Mao. His own words prove otherwise.

y8s - you're one of the most respectable members here, and I don't want any bad blood with you. In the end, if we must agree to disagree, so be it.

johndoe

iTrader: (5)

I'm not a supporter of either party but let me just say you're showing your political naivete. It's scary that you're in army intelligence but this ignorant to political history and philosophies, and current politics.

kotomile

iTrader: (24)

You're welcome to prove me wrong.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

polls are not votes. they are a statistic. but trends are telling. and if that doesn't satisfy you, here are the early voting numbers. keep an eye on things like "dem" and "black" and "commie socialist spendocrat" in the table.

2008 Early Voting

socialism. how long has this country had a progressive income tax structure? Forever? I mentioned before how cost of living is essentially a regressive tax already. the progressive structure balances it out. I think it also comes down to selfishness over selflessness. Is America about taking care of yourself or your country?

Tell me exactly what you feel is bad about socialism so I can understand the fear of it.

while you ponder it, here's a nice fox news headline from today.
As McCain Cancels, Obama Rallies.

Honestly, McCain NEEDS Pennsylvania. He just doesn't care. He might not even attend his own election night party!

Just what I want for a leader, someone who bolts when he gets anxious.

johndoe

iTrader: (5)

You really think Obama is going to organize a worker's revolution and overthrow the elite and "redistribute the wealth"? I seriously doubt he will do anything but maintain the status quo. Saying you think the wealth in this country should be redistributed does not make you a communist. Why the hell would he have so many wall street lobbyists in his campaign if he hated capitalism so much? And how ******* brainwashed have people become when they think that the current economic divide that keeps so much power and money in the hands of so few while the rest of us struggle to make ends meet is something we should protect? Redistributing the wealth doesn't mean he's going to forcibly take the money out of rich people's pockets and put it in the poor's, it means he wants to create program's and a tax system that doesn't favor the wealthy and stifle the less fortunate. Make things more "fair". Again, I'm not voting for him, but let's cut the bullshit.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

I'll respect those that deserve it; I dont see disageement as disrespect. I'm cool with that. It's why I try to keep a relatively level head when I comment on hotbuttons.

As for the economic policies of R vs. D, I think it's not as simple as "go with the guy who calls himself a fiscal conservative". Historically, the fiscal conservatives have spent more money than the liberals. I can't promise you Obama will spend less than McCain, but I don't think McCain has a solid argument there either. But **** man, look at the money in the campaigns? Sure Obama changed his mind (went back on his word to his opponent, true) and didn't take public funding, but that's so far been one of the best campaign decisions he made. He swallowed his pride and made the right choice. And it's eating John alive. You can see it in all the debates and in their balance sheets.

OK tonight I'm not going to bed at 2am.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

I gotta post the McCain "spread the wealth" video again. because his own words have been saying it too.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

a girlfriend of mine made a graveyard in her front yard and one tombstone says,
11/4/08
The Republican Party


:austin:

johndoe

iTrader: (5)

It's yet another mantra conservatives have chanted enough times while waving the flag that they've convinced people. "You're neighbor should be pulling him self up by his own boot straps". If he/she needs help or complains about socio-economic systems that hinder him/her that makes them a coward, un-American, and (gasp) a socialist.

But what really boggles my mind is not that people don't want to help others, it's that they don't want to help themselves. They think there is some kind of honor or dignity in struggling your whole life.

We're fed this illusion, especially with the ending of someone like Obama. Rising above it all. But that's a minor fraction of most people who struggle their whole lives and stay poor and unhappy because they're daddy wasn't rich, their schools sucked, and they got payed less or not hired because they were a minority or a woman, etc.

Meanwhile a lot of those rich guys got rich (if not through inheritance, luck and hard work) by screwing those poorer undereducated people (look at the mortgage crisis). But what's valued in this country is wealth, not what you did to get it.

johndoe

iTrader: (5)

pretty sure it's been dead at least since Reagan. Well, maybe undead...

kotomile

iTrader: (24)

It's not the super-rich I care about, either, it's the middle-class (not my term, by any means, but it fits) guys who've worked their asses off to get where they are, and I don't think it's right to have them paying out more and more in taxes every year so that some lazy do-nothing can sit on his/her *** and collect welfare. That's the problem anyway - handouts. The more there are the less motivation there is to contribute to society. Why work when you can collect a check from the government, courtesy of the taxpayers? Communism hasn't worked well for most countries who've tried it.

This is not to say that I agree with the Republicans' choice (notice I didn't say "our" choice) for President. I disagree with the Republicans on more issues than I disagree with the Democrats on, actually. But I do think that people should take ownership of their own lives.

johndoe

iTrader: (5)

Right...ever heard of corporate welfare. I think this pretty accurately describes why we're in the financial situation we are. I'll tell you, as a kid that grew up dirt poor that those "hand-outs" are not that great and you have to be dirt poor to get them. If you make anything close to a livable salary you don't qualify but yet you don't make enough to pay rent/ health insurance etc. still. It's not about being lazy for many people, it's about things being set-up in such a way to make it difficult and discourage you from advancing.

The people getting the real hand-outs are the one's that put us in this economic crisis. Lobbying for deregulation and no-bid contracts, tax breaks (loop-holes), etc.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

oh god another ******* political thread

neogenesis2004

iTrader: (12)

Doesn't the electoral college decide who is president? Since when does your popular vote count?