Should I buy a Kindle?
 

Background: I've been using the Kindle service on my android phone for about a year. I've actually only purchased one book on it- Steven Levy's "Hackers." I already own this book in hard-copy and have read it half a dozen times, but I was at an airport facing a seemingly endless delay, was bored, and had already exhausted my printed reading material. I've downloaded and read a bunch of previews (usually the first chapter or two of a book) as well. In fact, I just now ordered my second Kindle book, "Masters of Doom." (The story of John Carmack and John Romero.)

Given that I always have my phone on me, I find that having access to everything all the time is convenient. And, surprisingly, the form-factor of reading on a tiny Android screen isn't all that bad. On the downside, the battery life on my phone isn't all that great to begin with, and I find that if I spend an hour using Kindle on it, it really tends to suck the battery down.

Having a physical Kindle reader would provide a marginally better screen, and alleviate the battery issue altogether.

On the other hand, it's yet another gadget that I have to remember to drag around with me everywhere I go, and using one in public would make me one of "those people." Frankly, I have about the same opinion of people who I see using Kindii on airplanes, trains, etc as I do of hipsters wearing ironic T-shirts with pictures of cassette tapes on them.

On the gripping hand, not every title is available on the Kindle platform, and that annoys me. I tend to buy a lot of books secondhand, and pretty much every title imaginable is available on that platform, and also cheaper.

Make my decision for me. Justify your argument, being concise and specific. Estimate the differences in subsequent human cultures if the Kindle had been developed 500 million years earlier, with special attention to its probable effect on the English parliamentary system.

Do you smell the used books? Just curious.


You travel enough to warrant one. (never had one)

One kindle is less mass and less to deal with than even a single book Joe.

If I travelled as frequently as you do, I'd buy one hands down. Just IMO.

There are books available on the Kindle that were never printed - thus, never available in a used bookstore. Boom.

There are a number of titles available for less than one 2012 US dollar. Goes the.

You think reading a Kindle is hispter but shopping at a "secondhand" bookstore is not? Dynamite.

Short answer: yes. Absolutely.

Longer answer: spring for the 3G model, and without ads. Yes, it's worth it.

The 3G is nice for when you're stuck somewhere and you really don't know what you want. Then you can surf the kindle store, and read previews and sometimes even full chapters of books. That alone can make the time fly by. If you find something you like, it's a click to DL the whole book in seconds.

The screen is so much nicer to read for long stretches than a regular screen. No eyestrain, no squinting at tiny text. It's about the same size as a book, so you soon forget all the mechanics of it and just read. My one gripe is the button layout is not customizable, and I often hit the wrong one to turn back a page, intead going forward a page. Once I have read a few pages, it's forgotten.

I bought one, and liked it so much that I told my wife, who often borrowed it. So I bought another one.

One last thing: get a cover. They're cheap insurance against scratches and screen damage when carrying it. They even have ones with a built in LED light, just for the geek in you.

I have one and love it. Bought the no ads Wifi only one and have been extremely happy with it.

For me, if you take 5 minutes to plan ahead for a trip, there's no reason why you would need the 3G version to get books on the go. They've definitely dropped in price since I bought mine and I would definitely recommend it. Something about E-Ink in general is much more pleasing to read than an LCD.

Oh, and if you use *cough* Demonoid *cough*, there are all the books you could ever want on there (including brand new ones).

I can't speak for the kindle directly (nook owner here, bring on the lynch mob), but I really enjoy mine. The ability to take several good books with me on vacation without the hassle of packing them is just such a huge plus. My only regret is not getting the the touch screen model. In this age of mobile devices, the instinctive move of swiping my finger across the page to turn it took a while to break (I still do it sometimes).

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?


Could be. I don't believe I've ever come across one. In another generation this may become commonplace (as is becoming the case with music today), however a lot of the stuff that actually interests me has been in print for 10-20 years.


There's a lot of Scotch available for less than $20 a bottle, too. Not that I'd want it.


Well, a lot of stuff I get off eBay / Half.com.

And since I've been shopping at secondhand bookstores since before hipsters existed. So by their own definition I was "doing it before it was cool to be doing it before it was cool," and thus, not a hipster.




I've seen them, and I am impressed by the display. But honestly, I don't find reading books on the phone to be problematic. I have the screen set dimly and reversed (grey text on black background) and I can easily read the whole E-train ride from Jamaica to 50th street (about 45 minutes) with no problems aside from drawing down on the battery.


!?!

I just did a little research and, sure as hell- I have to pay an extra $40 to get a version that doesn't stream ads at me?


Interesting.

If a person were to have just now gone to Demonoid and downloaded torrented versions of the two eBooks that I mentioned in post 1, that person would find that they are in .PDF format. How well does that work as compared to the Kindle's native format? I know that native Kindle files are "pageless", in that they are just a stream of text dynamically formatted to fit the screen as needed, whereas PDFs are sort of locked down, formatting-wise.



Apart from page-turning (I have no issues using buttons for this), does the touch screen have any real practical advantages?

On my Android phone, I typically find myself page-changing with the "trackball" rather than swiping the screen. It seems more natural.

only someone who has never seen the "special offers" kindle would say that.

I've bought some of the kindle offers actually.. they're like groupon or livingsocial or google offers, but only show up on your "off" screen and at the bottom of the "home" page. Never EVER do they appear in any book.

But whatever, you're considering a Porsche and can afford another $30.

I read way more on the kindle than I ever did before. Go ahead, carry fifty farking giant books around in your schleppensack. Or one kindle with a month or two of battery life.

It is IDEAL for travel. lasts forever. not fatiguing. there's actually some fairly decent FREE books (Anomaly) and lots of free classics.

Just buy it. You can always sell it.

joe if you're smart, you'll get a previous generation "kindle keyboard" (before it had that name) and have free international 3G and a web browser that [sucks and] you can use for free internationally.

So y8s just g-ed me, asking "is a Kindle really expensive enough to justify a thread about one?"


No, and I guess I didn't really get to the core of the matter.


I'm struggling with whether getting an e-reader, and thus committing myself to a paperless future, is a wise decision. 30 years from now, will I regret having a "library" that exists only as data in a DRM-protected cloud? There's something gratifying about holding a physical book in your hands, or stopping by Strand Books while in Manhattan and browsing the shelves for hours to discover a few new titles you would have never found otherwise.

Also, in looking around eBay, I've seen "unlocked" Kindles advertised. What is "locked" about a Kindle in the first place? Or is this just BS?

Those might be the kindle Fires? GF just got one and she also has one of the original "paper" screens. She says on lowest brightness setting it's just as fine as the "paper" screen, plus you can see it in the dark. Anyways, I don't think you're even considering the Fire?

She loves her kindle, although still reads paper backs occasionally. Either they're not available on Kindle, or $7.99 vs. $5.99 for a paper back. Rode all three Hunger Games on my iphone with the kindle app, definitely wanted a bigger screen with less harshness on my eyes.

A Kindle (either the B&W e-ink "keyboard", or the Fire), are lighter and smaller than one paperback, and can carry hundreds (or maybe thousands).

If like me you read a lot on trips, it's well worth it. I have a "keyboard" which I bought when it got down to $150, and I've used it many, many times. I have the (cheaper) Wifi only version (no 3G) and I just either plan ahead and download before a trip, or do it in an internet cafe or airport with wifi.

Lots of software de-crypt Kindle ebooks.
I've done it on a small handful of titles that I want to keep. On the fiction I enjoy I once, I don't bother.

I don't think you're giving the Kindle e-ink screen any credit whatsoever there Joe.

It's 11ty billion times better than an OLED screen for reading text.

If you enjoy reading you'll find it much more enjoyable on a Kindle, though I do appreciate that it's an extra device to lug about.

Wait, so owning a Kindle stops you from buying real books as well ;)

Don't buy a Kindle.

Buy a portable charging device that works on your kinetic motion and charges your phone while you walk.

I say no, and I have reasons!

1. Buy a Nook instead. The Nook readers allow you to do much more then the Kindle does. Aka not forced to get your books from amazon. The Nook will read any .epub file that you put on the SD card. The Kindle doesnt even have a SD slot. Plus the Nook lets you customize backgrounds and stuff like that.

2. Use a better reader app on your phone. This is what I do. I use an app called Cool Reader, it was one of the few that would read .epub files off my sd card. I dont pay to read a book the first time anymore. If its something I really enjoy then Ill add it to my bookshelf. The app gives you completely control over font size, screen brightness, font and background colors, fonts, formatting, and a ton of other stuff that I dont know what it does or have any reason to change. This app doesnt affect my battery much at all, and I read a lot though out the day.

There are ebook format converters (Here is a good one), also you can find torrents of ebooks already in kindle format.

I have one of the early models, and it has features which they since have removed, because they suck so bad. Like a slight delay when turning off, so it goes into standby for a just a sec to show one more ad before it turns off. Like waking from standby to try to show a different ad, which kills the battery over time.


For 20 bucks, get the one without ads.

As someone who has worked in an independent bookstore for the last six years, a store, I might mention, that, if not entirely opposed to the e-book, has some serious questions about what effect it'll have on the publishing industry and literature in general, it warms the cockles of my heart to hear you say that, Joe.

:makeout:

No. Buy a torch. That way you can watch movies and tv shows on it. I know you do a decent amount of that.

joe did not include my one huge point about the kindle:

it does not make physical books obosolete.

If you want to buy a collector book that you want to keep around for 30 years, you still can.

I said that too.

My missus buys both Kindle books and physical copies.

Not interested in getting a Fire. It's just a crippled tablet, IMO.


I really have no desire to abandon the Android platform for Blackberry.


I'm sure that's true. I'm just saying that I don't find using the screen on my phone to be at all distressing- it does not detract from the experience, and thus, the screen is not a compelling reason.




If we project forward a few years, and assume that there will be a "winner" and a "loser" in the e-book world (eg: VHS vs. Beta, BluRay vs HDDVD) I expect it will probably be Amazon.

2. Use a better reader app on your phone. This is what I do. I use an app called Cool Reader,[/QUOTE]I'll check it out. Though like I said, battery life is about the only issue I have now. If it improves on that front, then great.



Hmm. A whole new world of piracy for me to explore.


Well, I'm pretty sure that the aim of e-book readers (and electronic "book" delivery services) is to destroy the entire publishing industry as we know it.

Unlike a Hollywood movie, you don't really need the financial backing of a production company to "create" a book. In general, it just takes one or two people to sit down and write the thing.

What the publishing company buys you is mostly marketing, production and distribution, and I'm pretty sure that Amazon wants to take over that end of the business entirely.

Im going to disagree, I definitely think that .epub would be able to beat out .mobi.

Which for-profit corporation was .epub created by?

Calibre is excellent at converting from one ebook format to another. PDF's can be converted although they don't always turn out the best. But, if you can find a book in either .mobi (Kindle native) or .epub (nook native) they can be cross converted without issues.

I also have a Nook and will say the kindle is definitely the better reader. The e-ink has a much better contrast and battery life is superior. Yes you can change background screens on a Nook, but did you really buy an e-reader to have cool background screens?

And as already said, you can easily defeat the DRM on purchased Kindle books. Don't let this deter you. The Kindle is awesome, case closed.

None. It's open source, and has already "Won" for all practical meanings of won.

All ebook readers either support it or support it with one click.

All ebook reader software supports it.

Etc. etc.

The capital cost of creating physical printed books, plus shelf space, as compared to digits, represents economic INefficiency.

Amazon would of course like to take over the biz entirely, but, competition will prevent that.

The cost of marketing and distribution, more economic inefficiency, is reduced by search engines, and "if you like this you will probably like this" engines.

Amazon is reducing the cost of publishing and distributing books. Some of this savings ends up in their pockets, some in the readers' pockets, and probably, some in the pockets of authors. Especially those that aren't best-selling authors.

Due to the Internet, the "Long Tail" has never before been more profitable. Niche writers/musicians/artists/producers are matched up with niche consumers/fans better than ever:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/tail.html

Due to Grooveshark and Pandora (I'm a paid subscriber to both), I discover and enjoy many more new bands/music than ever before. Bands that would have been unknown, undiscovered by niche genre fans, can now be found.

Apple is doing its part to upend the publishing industry, in this particular case, the textbook cartel. What it's doing is to further reduce the cost for authors to get published:
Apple Bites Into Core of School Textbook Monopoly
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/...ron-brown.html

This is only true if you assume that the value of all books can be reduced to the text contained within.

There are lots of books, and lots of book buyers, for whom the e-book will represent a more efficient step forward.

There are at least a few books, and at least a few book buyers, for whom the e-book, at least for now, remains a pale imitation of a physical book.

I meant this:

Gotcha.

Like I said, I have utterly no interest in buying a larger, heavier, more expensive version of a Kindle with much poorer battery life. I already carry my ultraportable laptop when I travel, and it does just fine for all those things which make the Fire "better" than a traditional Kindle.



Also, Jason, this thread isn't a platform for you to demonstrate your superior knowledge of all economic theories known to man. My cat is smart enough to know that printing, warehousing, shipping and stocking physical, printed books is less efficient than not doing so. Thank you for not thread crapping.

Joe, I have a Nook SimpleTouch, and absolutely love it.

One advantage I've found over the kindle is the nook has the ability to put files directly on the filesystem, like PDFs. from my understanding, you can't do that with the kindle. you need kindle formatted files, etc...

99 bucks, battery lasts weeks, and more convenient than carrying around even a single hard copy book... i find it allows me to read MORE, which is net positive.

Of course, and for that reason there will continue to be a niche market for physical books. For example, I bought hard copies of certain books instead of e-versions, such as Keith's miata project book.

Joe: My response wasn't directed just at you. Thanks for the bandwidth.

I find i have that problem with books on math theory and anything else that uses specific page structures and symbolic language.

oh yeah the kindle sucks for picture and travel books. you think you're smart getting all your lonely planet guides on kindle and then FUUUUUUUUUU when you can't see the maps and use them like you want.

Pictee no mattee.

Now this is interesting. A hypothetical person browsing around the seedy underbelly of the torrent scene might have just located and downloaded a copy of "The Cuckoo's Egg" in epub format, which is a book that he hadn't been able to find at either Amazon's Kindle Store or B&N's Nook Store.

Said person mightn't have yet figured out how to import same into his Android's Kindle reader software, but might have found that chokeasphyxia's link to Calibre apparently supports easy importation of same into a physical Kindle device.

"How on earth did this book even wind up in electronic format" that person might ask, "and why can't I find 'Accidental Empires' or 'Fire in the Valley'?"

Interesting. There is quite a lot more books online that I had thought.

So I took the plunge and bought a Kindle. Cost me $45 at Best Buy after turning in a couple of gift cards I've had lying around for longer than I can remember. I got the cheapest one, which displays ads at you while in "standby" mode.

And that brings me to a rather interesting topic.

Now, I've been an Amazon.com customer since 1996, back when they only sold books, and not very many of them at that. I'll never forget what I bought first from them; it was a paperback copy of Steven Levy's "Hackers: heroes of the computer revolution." I even got one of their limited-edition "Inside of a Dog" mousepads as a free thank-you gift for being a customer in their first year of operation. This was back when mousepads actually served a useful function, mind you.

So they've had sixteen years to compile a profile on me, based upon not only my purchase history but the history of every item I have ever viewed or clicked on at their website.

I've bought a lot of science / technology / history / automotive books, a few pieces of consumer-electronics equipment, a couple of random car parts (they have the best price anywhere on 4-wire narrowband O2 sensors), a camera lens, some Cussler / Clancy / Crichton / Coontz / Grisham style paperbacks, and an electric wok. And that's just the stuff I can remember off the top of my head.

And I've used their site to look at user reviews for more stuff than I can even remember. Paint sprayers, computer hardware, ceiling fans, television sets, cordless electric drills, wort chillers, pneumatic valves, and a little gadget that you install inside your toilet tank to automatically dispense a small amount of bleach directly into the bowl with every flush.

So what is it, specifically, that makes Amazon think that I care one whit about looking at ads for NewBalance running shoes and trendy blue jeans?

C'mon, Amazon. Google is putting you to shame in terms of targeting me with ads which are somehow vaguely relevant to my interests, and you guys have at least a five year head-start on them.

What I want to know is, does the toilet bleach gizmo work?

There isARE quite a lot more books online thatN I had thought.

You obviously read none of them. :fawk:

Hunger Games books are available free on Amazon Prime.

Yes, quite nicely in fact.

The specific one I got was the Fluidmaster 8300 "Flush 'N' Sparkle Toilet Bowl Cleaning System" which you can see here:

Previously, I'd used the tablets that you simply drop into the tank, and as other reviewers have noted, there are some drawbacks. First, of course, is that most of the water in the tank goes right down the drain during a flush, and most of the water that winds up in the bowl after the flush cycle is complete gets injected down the vertical column and therefore never comes into contact with the tablet at all. With this system, only the water going down the column is treated, by passing it through a cartridge much like a pool chlorinator. (This is the water that runs down into the bowl after the initial flushing action has stopped, while the tank is re-filling.) And, of course, it also avoids the problem of embrittlement of the various rubber components in the tank by isolating the chlorination to only the water going down the column during the refill cycle.

They make three different refill cartridges. The blue one, so far as I am aware, turns the water blue without actually contributing anything useful to the process of keeping the bowl clean. The green one is safe for septic systems, meaning it probably also doesn't work very well at bowl-cleaning. The white one is the good one- that sucker contains plain ole' heavily toxic chlorinated isocyanurate.

The drawback to this is that the white cartridge costs about $10, which is only $3 less than the entire unit. (Kind of an inkjet printer paradigm.) You can circumvent this issue by cutting the base off of the cartridge just below the seal and latch, and using it simply as a cap on top of the chamber into which you have dropped a couple chunks of broken-up pool chlorination tablet, which is very inexpensive and seems to be of essentially the same construction.

Ok, these ads are just getting downright weird. Huggies disposable diapers? Chewy vitamin supplements? Are they not even attempting to target these ads based on user demographics?

They are not targeted since I get the same stuff you do--including the attractive face skin care girl.

I keep thinking that maybe some morning I'll walk past the device and see a relevant ad.

Today, 70% off Yoga classes.

Nope.

(Haven't seen "attractive face skin care girl" yet.)

I've actually picked up a few of the offers:

* $5 off a $10 amazon purchase

* $2 off an mp3 album

* Award winning ebook title for $1

* Zappos VIP Membership upgrade (free next day shipping / expedited returns)

* Kindle Monthly Deals for January (vague, right?)

They only email you the offer--there's no commitment just to receive the offer via email.

I buy enough stuff from Amazon that I would just on any of the "free money" offers such as a $10 gift card for $5 or whatnot.

Anything else (eg: discount on an MP3 album, any kind of "premium" membership, etc) is hugely unlikely to arouse my interest.


Huh?



Anyway, for what it's worth, the hacker community has, unsurprisingly, figured out not just how to "unlock" the 4th gen Kindle, remove the ads, etc., but also how to remove the DRM from Kindle titles altogether. (Nook's DRM was already defeated.)

I probably won't do any of this, as the ads are unobtrusive and there doesn't seem to be any lack of DRM-free content out in "the scene", I just find it amusing.

Actually, a part of me wonders if certain elements of the Old Hackish Order are still alive and well, and working from within the various media empires. Building weak DRM is actually, in my opinion, beneficial to everyone. It allows content aggregators (Kindle, Netflix, etc) to "prove" to copyright owners that their works are protected, while permitting those who care to easily defeat said mechanisms and enjoy a DRM-free lifestyle.

I had no idea how offers worked when I first got my kindle.

they simply say "press [o] to get this offer" or something. Upon pressing [o], it says "email yourself this offer" and that's it. You still get to choose whether to purchase. I was concerned my first time that I would be buying all sorts of shet just bu pressing [o].

Ah.

I haven't "clicked through" any of the offers yet, mostly because I don't need any free diapers or a discount on Yoga classes. You mean that after you click it, they send you the full version I email, I assume.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1331919266

that's what I mean. perhaps [+] would have better communicated my meaning.

Gotcha. It's kind of a hard symbol to represent in ASCII (or even Unicode, for that matter.)