Stock market blues
 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash::vash:
:vash::vash::vash::vash:

OK, I just needed to vent a little. I feel a little better now....

I have lost enough money in the last year to build up a couple of really nice Miatas. Damn...

Come on rally!!! :)

No kidding. I've lost enough to build a nice house. It will be back and I don't need it for several years so I'm not getting my panties in too much of a twist, though.

buckle up, this isn't over yet.

+1 and that is a house at its appraised value two years ago, not today. I agree with Hustler, it isn't over yet.

On the bright side, I have a big chunk of money that was sitting in a cash account because I was not sure where I wanted to invest it. I still believe in the market and like you, do believe it will go back up. When it starts, I'll be investing that money like crazy.:yippee:

I had 20 shares of the dow. damn

+1, we've still got a ways to fall.

i'm long.

This kind of irrationality just astounds me.

I haven't sold anything yet (except for a REIT that seemed to have peaked at about +23% after 2 years) largely because I'm the sort of guy who would commit hara kiri if I sold at the bottom.

On the other hand, who the hell knows where the bottom is? I'm out about $70k on paper just at the moment, and while I'm not hurting for cash, there's no reason for this to be going on right now.

I don't see how the fundamentals have changed.

Sure, banks are collapsing. But we all knew that smoke and mirrors were the only thing holding the mortgage market aloft, so why the big surprise?

And now, my tax dollars are going to be used to bail out all you folks who exhibited bad judgment by taking out zero-down, interest-only ARMs a few years ago and were "surprised" when your monthly payment doubled while your home value halved.

Nationalize the financial system, see if I give a damn. But when did it become "OK" to reward stupidity of that magnitude?

I have a feeling this is going to be another 20+ page thread....

but seriously, why the fuck are we supposed to pay for shady ass house sales, with idiots that could never afford the houses and prick realtors/loan off.'s that pushed them to do it just to make lots of money....

we're going down the shitter

I took my 401k out of stocks late last year.
I started buying bear funds a few months ago, such as:
SKF, SH, TWM, QID.

On the plus side, I do have about $35k in free cash sitting around at the moment. Considering that the market is essentially a bargain-bin right now, I'm tempted to wait a week or two and spread about $25k of that uniformly across the Dow components. (Well, except GM and EK. I just don't like those two on general principle.)

Joe,

This market has a long way down yet. Get out in the next few days, wiat for a rally but if none appears get out anyway.

It's only begun to unravel. The whole derivatives market is doing it. They are starting to sell their assets, driving stock prices down.

Only thing I'm investing in is gold and silver.

/tinfoil hat

Ive lost enough to put gas in my car a few times, and Im pissed! Sorry to you guys who've lost more.

Silver is a commodity, and thus its price will drop in a recession as demand goes down.

The same is partially true for gold, but supposedly if gold breaks $950 and the reason for it is the central banks are buying, then it's gonna go up up up.

http://the-moneychanger.com/articles...my/exter.phtml

I just picked up $24k of Toronto Dominion Bank today. Stock is at a bargain price and likes to rally quite often after a few days of getting hammered.

I think I lost $10,000 in my 401K this year. I haven't looked in 2 months. I'm scared to. I hope it goes back up.

The bad thing is, I may be switching jobs in Dec. And the 401k switch might screw me for later.??? I hope not.
Anyone know how that works?

+1. I say let the shit hit the fan in a sense. I know that it will have a negative impact on everybody and all and things will be bad for a while but I think it needs to happen to get everybody's attention and in the end it will be for the better. Kinda like gas prices. A spike here and there and people bitch but they don't change their ways. But then gas goes up and up and stays there and it seems it's only gonna get worse and people get worried and start consuming less gas. $100 a barrel oil didn't get people's attention. $150 did. Let some people loose their homes. It will get people's attention and history will not repeat itself.

I just watched a Charlie Rose interview with Paul Volcker, the former US Fed Reserve Chairman from 79-87 (Before Alan Greenspan). Great interview. It was a great summary discussion, and more informative and more useful than a lot of what I have seen so far. Check it out if you want some healthy perspective on all of this.

I am still bullish over the long term and am staying in. Hell, I'm going to buy all I can. Simply put, the market forces and the leadership are probably going to clean the financial garbage out of the system over the next year or two, get back to fundamentals, and the US markets will end up being solid for the long run. It is just going to be painful for awhile.

In the mean time I am going to continue to contribute to the economy. I just bought a Hard Dog DD roll bar and side bars. They should be here next Monday :bigtu:

I don't see why changing jobs would be a problem. Ask your HR folks, but you should have a couple of options:

1- Leave your current 401k completely alone. Start a new one with your new employer. (This is what I did when I left my former employer.)
2- Roll the balance of your current 401k into the 401k program of your new employer. No tax, no penalty.
3- Roll the balance of your 401k into an IRA. Pay income tax on the rollover, with the understanding that the money will be tax-free when you withdraw it at retirement. No penalty.
4- Cash out. Pay tax and penalty. Bad move.

I pulled back to safe about 8 months back before things got too shitty. I lost about 2K at that point. I have about 30k to play with and when i suspect we're near bottom I'll take some risks. We're not done falling yet but I imagine we are close... especially if oil keeps dropping.

At this time we are putting all excess funds, along with some CD's that are maturing this month on the mortgage.

Some people don't think this is smart. They say to invest the funds. The way I look at it is, with a 5% loan, I would have to make 8% in the market to break even, after taxes.

Who can GUARANTEE a 8% zero risk return right now? No one, except paying off the house.

We have just under 100K left on the mortgage and plan to have it knocked out in less than four years. We put an extra $10K to it already this year and another $20K this month when the CD's mature.

I can't think of a better feeling than complete security with everything paid off. Don't have to worry about one of us losing a job and not being able to cover the bills.

If you have a lot of money saved in your current 401k, NOW is a good time to change jobs IF you are sure you'll have at least as much job security in your new job, BECAUSE you can move your 401k into a "rollover 401k" account tax free. Let me explain. (You open a "rollover 401k" account in a brokerage and continute to manage your money, though you can't contribute to it. It will be independent of your new employers 401k.

The typical 401k has NO PROTECTION against a hyperinflationary crash. There are typically NO choices available that are safe against simulataneous INFLATION and a worldwide stock market crash.

We WILL have massive inflation over the next few years because of the bailouts. Whenever the Fed loans money it CREATES it out of nothing, diluting the existing money supply, creating inflation. This is how our monetary system works. The Fed has recently expanded the monetary base at unprecedented amounts.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/4121.cfm

If you keep your money in cash over the next several years, it WILL be severely eroded by inflation.

Typical ways to protect your money include foreign currency accounts, foreign currency bonds, and gold. The typical 401k account does NOT have these options. The typical brokerage that can host a "rollover 401k" account DOES.

joe, if you change jobs and do a rollover from your previous 401k into an IRA, there is no tax or penalty. Are you thinking Roth IRA?

rolling from and into both approved retirement accounts is untaxable until you withdraw the money at retirement. assuming traditional IRA.

I did just this because I didnt want my previous 401k in the new 401k plan. I wanted more flexibility.

NEW STOCK MARKET TERMS

CEO --Chief Embezzlement Officer.
CFO--Corporate Fraud Officer.
BULL MARKET -- A random market movement causing an investor to mistake
himself for a financial genius.
BEAR MARKET -- A 6 to 18 month period when the kids get no allowance, the
wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex.
VALUE INVESTING -- The art of buying low and selling lower.
P/E RATIO -- The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market
keeps crashing.
BROKER -- What my broker has made me.
STANDARD & POOR -- Your life in a nutshell.
STOCK ANALYST -- Idiot who just downgraded your stock.
STOCK SPLIT -- When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally
between themselves.
FINANCIAL PLANNER -- A guy whose phone has been disconnected.
MARKET CORRECTION -- The day after you buy stocks.
CASH FLOW-- The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet.
YAHOO -- What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per
share.
WINDOWS -- What you jump out of when you're the sucker who bought Yahoo @
$240 per share.

^ lol