Thinking about getting a mercedes. Why shouldn't I?
 

As the title states I'm thinking about getting a Mercedes Benz's. I'm looking at picking up an older one, higher mileage, with some issues that would be a project, then probably a daily, not sure yet though.
Does anyone have any experience with these cars? Reasons why I shouldn't buy one? etc.

From what I can tell the older ones are fairly reliable, but parts can be pricey. I'm looking at a 1989 260E that has 200K miles on it but, no mechanical issues. Link below
http://chambersburg.craigslist.org/cto/3051649117.html

Also looking at an 1989 300CE. Needs an alternator(~$150), rear windshield, A/C and heat don't work, dull paint (a good buff might help), and it has questionable seat covers. The only thing that bothers me is the heater not working, isn't that generally an indication of something worse being wrong? I'm probably going to check this car out within the week. Link below
http://lancaster.craigslist.org/cto/3076441929.html

Finally the most labour intensive. A 1994 C280 that needs a motor. Obviously its the cheapest, and a used motor shouldn't be too bad. But who know's I'd have to check it out. Link below
http://lancaster.craigslist.org/cto/3018882437.html

I have found some others but the sellers haven't responded to me yet and all the ad says is "needs a little work", yeah ok.

I really, really like the body style of the 260E, however, it's the most expensive, highest mileage one. The 300CE is also a good looking car in my opinion. Really I just have to go and check them out, talk to insurance people, etc.

So what do you think? Good idea, bad idea? Am I going to hate myself? My dream daily is an older benz with turbo. Either my big holset or a twin setup. The biggest thing I dislike is manual trans are impossible to find, so doing a conversion will be pretty tough.

Does it need to be gas? I had an 81 240D (w123) that was a riot, a slow riot, but very cool nonetheless. Old MB diesels of that vintage are amazingly bullet proof and so very easy to work on. Gas versions of that car were more troublesome and had more ---- to go wrong.

Seriously they will cost a ton of money unless they have been very well taken care of. Mine was a single owner when I bought it and it made life a lot easier and I didn't have to fix it every day. Nothing is more expensive than a cheap Benz. I would buy an older one again, but only from someone who knows what they are talking about. Get on an MB forum and learn about what to look for when buying that's specific to the chassis you like, it will save you money in the long run.

The later 300Ds were pretty good looking I think. Not much power but plenty of fun just cruising around in a land yacht. My opinion

I'd prefer gas just cause I like the noise. A diesel veg fuel conversion could be fun.

Fair enough. I prefer the diesel sound so each to their own.

I did make my own Biodiesel too, it burned it quite happily.

Yeah one of my high school teachers was into all that and did bio fuel stuff so I'm sure he'd be willing to help me out. I just don't get all hot in the pants for diesels. In my mind if I did that I'd be going for cheap fuel and high mileage, not performance. Oh yeah and one of my friends in high school had a diesel Benz with like 300K+ miles so I figure they can last awhile.

I had a 1989 190e 2.6 for a while. Body was incredibly tight and rattle free for the age. Handled well too when I put some fresh Bilstein HD's on it. Sluggish engine and a pretty irritating automatic transmission killed the fun factor. Lack of A/C and the MB Plex seats finally pushed me to sell it.

I really love the body style of the 260E it's just the 200K+ miles that worries me. Should I be worried? It does seem like it was well taken care of...well from the owners description. I also read the transmissions were programmed never to start in first to make smoother take offs. Long term goal I'd like to build the motor and turbo it, and do a manual trans swap, but not for many years.

The 190e 2.3 cosworth came with a manual. Tough to find and expensive when you do. Not sure how easy it would be to find parts for a manual tranny swap for any other car.

I'm not sure these platforms are best for your goals but of course nothing is impossible.

I wouldn't be put off by 200k if the price is right. I paid $1200 for my 190e with 198k miles I think. Was in pretty good shape, straight body, no rust, but tires were bald and the A/C didn't work.

One thing to walk away from -- any leaks in the vacuum system. It runs the door locks, the auto transmission, there are lines all over the place, it is NOT something you want to have to diagnose and fix if you can help it.

For example:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1339725667

Just saying. Though I'm not sure I'm russian enough to handle that. That's a long term goal anyway.

Also good info about the high mileage. I'm infatuated with the 260E I have no idea why I just love that body style. though it's a bit high priced at $2200, what do you think would be a fair price?

LS1 944 if you wanna be a boss

How about a ZR1 as long as we're making ridiculous suggestions?

Easy there, homeboy. How about you take a step back and realize what this pimp is trying to do?

He wants to buy an inexpensive expensive car that he'll eventually dump a whole lot of money into to make it go fast.

The elegant styling of the 944 and the large aftermarket/go fast support out there make it a great candidate, even with its suspect suspension geometry. LSx swaps are becoming common in those cars and there is a lot of info out there. LS1 944 would be a great swap.

That's what a young lord would do, but you wouldn't know that because you spend your life hating. :loser:

His most expensive car was $2200. Find an LSx 944 for that much and I'll buy it.

Hahaha I'd love a 944. I do believe parts would be a far bit more expensive though. Also I don't really plan on dumping a bunch of money into it. It helps that I build all my own stuff though...Lets forget the turbo idea for now. Yes it would be awesome, but unless I get it seriously cheap (the car) I'll probably just daily it so I can build the miata.

August will be 3 yrs and just over 5k miles since I bought my 190e 2.3-16. It has never failed though it has certainly given me an education in german engineering including mechanical fuel injection. I will say that all the work is to be expected from a 25 yr. old car.

I probably have $500 in maintenance- sensors, freon, front struts, suspension arms, ball joints, bushings... nothing to get it running, all to make it run better. Parts (outside the driveline) are plentiful and cheap since they're all 190e - I replaced all 8 suspension arms in the rear with new bushings/ball joints for $160. Car is still solid as rock and a lot of fun to drive- it has clearly illustrated everything you ever hear about german cars- good and bad.

My advice would be only buy one if you're doing the work. I think the reason these old Benz come up cheap is because owners can't afford to pay somebody to fix them (vs. buying the part and fixing it themselves.) Typical example- mine uses the same nippondenso AC compressor found on the same era Camry, which was also used on a bunch of other cars, readily available and affordable.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1339765248

I drove a 93 300E for 5 years during highschool and college. Loved the hell outa that car.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1339766720

Lovely car. This was mine, shortly before I swapped it for a Saab.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1339766407

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...erc/MERC02.jpg

Wow those are some awesome cars! Especially yours m2cupcar(I also am a fan of your FE-miata). It benz' like yours that got me excited about them, so clean, aggressive, yet refined looking.

Yes I'll be doing all my own work. No I don't expect a problem free car of this age. I just wasn't sure if I'd end up dumping a buttload of money into it if something stupid goes bad, like if it needs shocks I don't want to spend like $3K on suspension.

Thanks for the great info guys. I'm going to look at the 300CE today, and see when I can go check out the 260E.

Now the hardest part is deciding which one I like more. I really love the sedan 260, it's cleaner, but higher mileage and he wants $2200 for it...Think $1500 is reasonable? Lower? It does need inspected.

The 300CE is also very nice but needs a lot of love, he wants $1850, but the car needs trailered. Max I'd offer is $1200

I think all of 'em are priced high. The 190/300 are nearly the same car and use a lot of the same parts. Popular car so there are lots of third party parts- inexpensive. Too bad you couldn't find a buddy to drive down and pick up a southern car for those NE prices. My car had one 2" surface rust spot on it under some door weather stripping. Underside is clean.

Here's what I'm talking about for car/price: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/3050268489.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3031733835.html
And the 260 had the smaller 6- IMO you want the 300.
Here's the modern diesel to have: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/3049087119.html
190s are plentiful: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/3018307604.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2954918026.html

Lovely is a good word for it - I use it when I look at the car and when I work on it. ;)

What's crazy is I have seen three 5 speed 190e 2.6s come up on CL over the last year. And supposedly the 5 speed is what that engine needs. Unfortunately the owners of these cars think the manual trans garners a $1k premium, though they never seem to sell, keep popping back upon CL.

I've got thing for 60s 2 series coupes.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1339768144

Though lately SLs seem to be the deal of the century. Running, driving, no issues, good top, hard top and they're selling for under $5k. Usually just need paint.
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2964442175.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/3039146814.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3038263153.html

Yeah I wouldn't be opposed to going some distance to get a car, but I'd like to be sure it's "the one" first. All the 190's around me seem to suck. I'm pretty excited to go look at the cars though.

Honestly if I were looking for a trans swap it might almost be easier to consider converting it to a trans that is plentiful and cheap, then try and find the parts.

for someone who sells books for a living, I find it hard to believe could fail so hard at reading comprehension.

"He wants to buy an inexpensive expensive car that he'll eventually dump a whole lot of money into to make it go fast.

The elegant styling of the 944 and the large aftermarket/go fast support out there make it a great candidate, even with its suspect suspension geometry."

I never said anything about him buying an already swapped car, but you assume that's what I'm talking about. assume.

it doesn't matter though, because he's sticking with the MB idea and you'll always be butthurt about something. :loser:

Sure, except that you're wrong. He said he wanted a daily, not a basketcase $2000 Porsche. Go ethug somewhere else.

a 944 wouldn't make a bad daily for a single bro

those old SLs are great, I would shy away from that '91 though -- too complicated.

Love 944's myself but I have yet to see one under $5000 that wasn't a basketcase. They are apparently a bitch to work on too...clutch replacement involves taking the entire car apart piece by piece.

A guy that works in the building has (among his other desirable cars) a very nice 944 track car. Stripped interior, caged, 968 wheels. Looks great.

I'd still love to find a 968 Club Sport (yes, I know they weren't sold here).

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2022/1...f73_z.jpg?zz=1

yes, at least two were brought over as grey market imports. my old man used to specialize in high-end car importation (Mercedes-Benz 450SEL 6.9s, Lancia Integrales, Audi Quattros, a single Porsche 959, etc.) and he had a buddy who brought two over, one for himself and one for a client of his -- same guy also had an RS200 so go figure.

That is lovely.

Since this is near and dear, might as well weigh in.

I've had several old Benzes, and still have one (my wife's 380SL that I've just finished a chassis restoration on -- quite a job).

My observations:

1. Actual Quality (I.e., not how much advertising and gushing from the ignoramus press there is, but whether the cars actually hold up over the decades and their ease of maintenance): Mercedes is not Mazda by a longshot. Mercedes is not Ford. Mercedes is not Chevrolet or Cadillac. Mercedes is not Plymouth. Sorry. Reliability of electronics, systems and transmissions is downright bad, and parts are located to be as inaccessible as possible (try replacing AC damper vacuum servos on a 107 chassis -- geez). Want to adjust your parking brake? You need to remove your exhaust first. Many of the engines are interference and will self-destruct (especially V-8s). This is all based upon personal experience of having various project/restoration cars all of which were at least 15 years old. Mercedes won't put up with average owner abuse and wear/tear as well as most Japanese or American cars. That may actually be a European car characteristic, but my personal experience is with Mercedes.

2. Design: Love the clean, timeless designs, especially on the older ones. Even the oldest models will have features like fully independent suspensions, alloy wheels and 4 wheel disc brakes.

3. Parts Availability and Pricing: Mercedes really shines here. They build their cars relatively unchanged for many years, and different model lines share a lot of components. I go to the dealer often and have no problem getting the strangest little bits for a 1981 model (Me: I need special bolt #3, Parts Guy: We'll have it tomorrow). I'd have to say I'm astounded by the parts availability -- on a par or possibly better than for a Miata. I've also found that pricing on most parts is pretty reasonable, even from the dealer.

4. Maintenance and Repairs: Don't do it unless you plan to DIY. I've had nothing but bad results from the few times I hired work out. Be prepared to invest in good documentation (factory manual is mandatory -- available on CD). Mercedes is in love with "special" tools. I've found that almost all of these tools can be pretty easily fabricated if you know what they look like and what they need to do. Do invest in the appropriate fuel injection diagnosis tool. It will pay you back many times over.

A well-maintained example is definitely worth a premium with these cars. Unfortunately, you may not be able to tell just by looking at service records. As I mentioned, a lot of specialist, Mercedes mechanics are hacks. A good look and a thorough test drive should reveal the issues though. A Mercedes system either works 100% or you are in for excitement, $ and a repair that will take at least 10X longer in time and frustration than the equivalent repair on a Miata.

I probably sound sour. Maybe I am. My wife definitely looks good in her SL. But aside from that, I'm done with Euro cars.

Horneyball you and i are a lot alike. U r lucky I do not live closer to you for I would make you have my babby.

I have owned about 6 mercedes in my life.

Prepare to suffer.








Bulletproof? No. HONDA is bulletproof. Even W123 is not.


Wow that video made me hard ha ha ha



Seriously prepare to replace


all cv axles

all ball joints

all hoses

all your stupid vacuum lines

transmission (dies like clockwork)

all your window seals

all your trunk seals

have shiiity heat in the winter

have shiiiiiity ac in the summer

and so on.


Yes, some of the older oens (60s) do have class. Daddy had a few of those. Cool cars. Would never own.


Also. The germans killed my fuckying ancestors. Yes, I am jewish heritage. Fucck the germans.

What about a

Merkur XR4Ti
http://allentown.craigslist.org/cto/3061665395.html

Mustang GT
http://york.craigslist.org/cto/3080079341.html

Crown Vic Police package
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/3077142732.html

Iroc Z
http://allentown.craigslist.org/cto/3074191240.html

MR2
http://allentown.craigslist.org/cto/3074191240.html

3000gt
http://reading.craigslist.org/cto/3036784836.html

Triumph Spitfire
http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/3076486131.html

Datsun 280z
http://delaware.craigslist.org/cto/3002858480.html

There are way to many cool cars on the market for you to consider a old grandma mercedes pos.

Pretty sure it would be the other way around, sweetie!!

We actually did live close once. I went to Annapolis and my wife is from Timonium.

Haha about the 944 my friend is taking an engine out of one today. Also I checked out the 300 today total waste of gas. I don't want mustang, iroc, or crown vic. I'd love an Mr2, datsun, or spit, but i want something less miata like.

I do expected issues, its an old car. I'm probably going to check out the 260 Sunday. A supra might be ok and I think they came in 2+2.

The windshield wiper on my 190e was pretty slick.

I totalled a 190e purposefully driving through a fully red light in the rain yay

My 190 has never blown up.

Dang it now I'm considering a 944 with a 4.8l vortec engine...

I told you, boner

Too bad they have no room for turbos under the hood.

Parts for Mercs are expensive. And the cars, in my experience, are not very well built. Plus, lug bolts suck.


Buy an older Honda, enjoy zero maintenance and cheap parts. Modify slightly, profit.

Ugh, FWD.

Shop harder. I bought all 8 rear suspension arms with new bushings and bearings (yeah both) installed for just over $150. I picked up a used Cosworth head with 60k miles in excellent working condition for $250 delivered- and that's probably one of the rarest MB cylinder heads in the U.S. Picked up Mann oil filters at $3 each from Rockauto. Brand new air flow potentiometer $25 delivered. I hear the same sh!t from MB weenies and it's because they roll up to the dealer parts window and pay 4-5x what third party parts cost. MB used a lot of the same parts across the models and sold a lot of the cars around the world basically unchanged mechanically, so there are a lot of third party manufacturers out there. That's what keeps the prices down.

I think the real question is: Is the buyer cut out for old german car ownership? That means diagnosing insanely complicated systems, deciphering service manuals that are far more difficult than the engrish I was accustomed too, and working on items that were apparently not engineered with accessibility in mind- ever.

It's definitely a challenge. I bought mine a deep discount and now have a great running DD with tuned fuel system, new rear suspension, working AC, among various other little things. But I enjoy challenges and working on cars.

Would it be stupid to buy a 944 and V8 swap it...Or a 924? Any difference between the 924 and 944? other then the flared arches? I can get a 924 for $500...

Oh yeah. I also want to stuff an engine like this into it...http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...g_bang_theory/
I don't know which engine it is though. I'm assuming it's the vortec. But would it make that much power with just a cam and a ported head? The amount of boosted power this thing makes is insane. Power like faeflora would want, as in, ALL-OF-IT.

goddamn that is badass

924 has problems with a swap that a 944 doesn't. Something about the subframe or suspension or something that won't hold up. I forget exactly what it is, but I was looking at a 924 for a LSx swap, and it was highly recommended to go with a 944 instead.

Search for places that make 944 swap kits, and that's where you'll find the info.

LS fits in either gen 924, but the first has the weaker driveline/transaxle. Last gen transaxle is suggested for <400ftlbs. Transmission would require fab'ing a tunnel at the firewall- or enlarging what's there for the torque tube.

Yes that motor is awesome.
I dont really like the 924 body when compared to the 944. But theyre so much cheaper...

Really? The used market seems to be saturated with 944s and I seem them not running for as cheap as any 924. Really depends on the condition. IMO you'd want the 944 for the flares- big wheels/tires.
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3070489173.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/3074925831.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3045635007.html
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/cto/3013566382.html

Yes I definitely want the flares, the 924 just looks lacking without them. The only 944, who's seller replied to me, is listed at 1500 needs a complete interior as well as a new paint job. That wouldn't bother me for a project like this but he would need to come down a bit in price I think.

Edit: Hmm I just found an 85, running driving, champagne gold for $1200...

:rofl:

No kidding!! What's up with the darn lug bolts?!? How do you fudge-up something so simple and obvious. Totally stubborn.

Actually, we should all be grateful that Germans have a propensity for stupid complexity. The Big One might have turned out differently without this characteristic.

The only Merc I would drive would be an old turbo-diesel wagon. Wagon, to haul sht. Turbo-diesel, to burn grease and be all eco-correct here in Portland. They are all spoken for, here, and there are no cheap ones to be found on the CL.

Next choice would be a 7.4L turbo diesel Excursion, but Ms Mobius won't go for that.

7.3L, not 7.4L

My dad has two. 300TD wagons.

your dad?