Thinking about picking up a Galant VR4
There is one for sale pretty close to me and I'm tempted to pick it up as my next daily driver. It would be kept mostly stock except for a few things like balance shaft delete, 4ws delete (most likely) and things like that. Might increase power because its irresistible but not for awhile. Suspension upgrades. I doubt it would ever be competitive in autox so I think i'll save my 323 GTX for the fun stuff.
Pros: 4 doors (dog approved) AWD Turbo Strong trans that can be sourced easily EFI system i'm already familiar with Comfortable Cons: Ugly as sin Legondary 4g63 reliability Heavy Guy wants 4200 but i'm going to offer him less. I think thats a little too much. Has 130k miles. Looks pretty damn straight from the pics. After the GTX i'm addicted to these old homologation cars. What might I not be considering? If not this car, any other suggestions for under 5k? |
Do you have actual experience with DSMs and 4G63-powered cars?
I love the idea of the GVR-4 and my buddy had one that was pretty legendary, but I often find the romance and the reality diverge. A lot of it will depend on your willingness to constantly tinker on the car and your discipline in modifications. My experience is that finding an unmolested GVR-4 is exceedingly rare. You will most likely experience a number of "WTF?!" moments at some point in the experience as you try to undo whatever dickery the previous owner implemented. |
I love the riddle that is DSM. But my time owning one was definitely more than I bargained for.
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I'm tired of older cars.
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DO IT! Great cars, yes ugly, but a ton of potential, and the reliability issue is a myth. If this thing is unmolested then you are at a great starting point. I drove utterly reliable DSMs for over a decade...no reason that this one won't be great. Sh1t, my Miata even runs on a GVR4 ecu and harness lol.
Pics? Link to ad? |
If I were looking for a mechanic, I would weight long-term DSM ownership more heavily than having an ASE certification.
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Do like, but here are some other options:
99-01 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS Older WRX Can't beat $4K though |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 818142)
If I were looking for a mechanic, I would weight long-term DSM ownership more heavily than having an ASE certification.
But then you got a mechanic that wants to stick a 42r on any internal combustion motor in existance |
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Originally Posted by matthewdesigns
(Post 818141)
DO IT! Great cars, yes ugly, but a ton of potential, and the reliability issue is a myth. If this thing is unmolested then you are at a great starting point. I drove utterly reliable DSMs for over a decade...no reason that this one won't be great. Sh1t, my Miata even runs on a GVR4 ecu and harness lol.
Pics? Link to ad? I've been doing some research and it seems that the GVR4 actually might do pretty well in DSP autox. Can be lightened up a fair amount and can fit some pretty serious rubber under it. Not to mention evo 8 suspension almost bolts right up to it. Attachment 186154 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r/DSC_0013.jpg Attachment 186155 |
I've always wanted one. I would consider it as a non-daily for sure.
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Well I think I just bought a 500 dollar volvo daily beater =P
Between that, the GTX, and the VR4 I think the 3 of them would certainly make for one reliable daily driver lol. And worst case scenario, the integra just got a GSR swap so my gf and I can always carpool haha. |
Must watch Galant VR-4 video
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Classic vid! Watched that a bunch of times.
Originally Posted by wayne_curr
(Post 818156)
here they are.
I've been doing some research and it seems that the GVR4 actually might do pretty well in DSP autox. Can be lightened up a fair amount and can fit some pretty serious rubber under it. Not to mention evo 8 suspension almost bolts right up to it. pics |
PM GreddyGalant over at club roadster, He's Nial's friend and Lazarus co-owner. He might have some good advice for ya.
I personally love Saabs. $4000 could get you a ---- ton of luxury, and most are turbo powered. Reliability is an issue though. Yet after a '94 900 and '93 9000, the only issue I had was the one thing everyone says to stay away from, automatics. Check them out: another project: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2781318922.html Great DD: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/2788416849.html That last one is a V6, had one and loved it. |
I thought Saabs where unreliable?
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More than a galant GR4 or $500 Volvo? Not really. They usually have a few kinks to work out when new, which is why they're a great used option.
Edit: Automatics are another matter. They might as well have a piece of bread taped to the engine and shifter. It'd work just as well. |
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 818248)
More than a galant GR4 or $500 Volvo? Not really.
Most of the reliability issues associated with early DSMs (and technically, the GVR-4 is not a "DSM" since it was built in Japan) are really issues associated with the owners. Most of the time, the cars have ended up with younger owners who are inexperienced and poorly funded (think: the average ClubRoadster member). It's their half-assed "fixes" and generally poor maintenance that causes a lot of the problems. If you are a competent mechanic, willing to maintain the car properly (including potentially undoing a lot of the previous owner's "fixes") and have the discipline not to try and turn it in to another project car: go for it. They are very cool cars. |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 818389)
It's their half-assed "fixes" and generally poor maintenance that causes a lot of the problems.
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I think its both actually: shitty design/materials from the factory AND terrible upkeep that turns them into nightmares.
Some cars, like DSMs, Volkswagens, Some bimmers, etc. Require way more maintenance and upkeep than others. I know some folks that replace the damn water pump every 20k miles on their audi. Some that basically overhaul all bushings on their e36 m3 every 30k miles or something retarded like that. You really SHOULDN'T HAVE TO do that much ---- to a car just to keep it running right. So that's a factory/design flaw. Then you get kids that buy that car used, for pennies on the dollar, and invest all of 5 bux in maintaining them over the next year or two. The car ultimately shits itself and they dump it on craigslist for someone like you to pick up: now you're stuck with a heaping tub of sh!t that needs to be completely overhauled or it will break down every other day. |
Huh. More body roll than I expected in that video.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 818395)
I think its both actually: shitty design/materials from the factory AND terrible upkeep that turns them into nightmares.
Some cars, like DSMs, Volkswagens, Some bimmers, etc. Require way more maintenance and upkeep than others. I know some folks that replace the damn water pump every 20k miles on their audi. Some that basically overhaul all bushings on their e36 m3 every 30k miles or something retarded like that. You really SHOULDN'T HAVE TO do that much ---- to a car just to keep it running right. So that's a factory/design flaw. Then you get kids that buy that car used, for pennies on the dollar, and invest all of 5 bux in maintaining them over the next year or two. The car ultimately shits itself and they dump it on craigslist for someone like you to pick up: now you're stuck with a heaping tub of sh!t that needs to be completely overhauled or it will break down every other day. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 818392)
What do belts and oil changes have to do with electric sensor failure and bad suspension rubbers?
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Scrappy, I think he's referring to his Veedubs.
I'll take the GVR4 over any of that Euro stuff any day. Parts are cheap, there's a TON of aftermarket support for that drivetrain, and they are relatively fun even left stock. As I and others stated, the poor reliability rep really is tied more to cheap, retarded owners that give DSMs a bad name. You should see some of the jokes of a car that comes in to my buddy's DSM/Evo shop. Younger owners are for the most part just ------- stupid, can't work on their own ----, refuse basic maintenance, and then blame him for the next 5 things that fail. At this point he pretty much refuses to modify cars that are not brought back to stock reliability first. |
I'm not worried about the reliability at all. I dont know why these people are going off comparing these cars to VW/Audi products.
I do need to know what to look out for when I go to look at the car next week. Going on tuesday I hope. |
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IIRC all GVR4s had 6 bolt motors from the factory. Here's how to check that the car still has a 6-bolt motor (not a replacement 7-bolt): http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html
While you are under there see if it looks like the pan bolts have been removed at any point. No reason to do that unless the motor has been apart. 6 bolt motors are typically less affected by crankwalk, but a few symptoms: Since the clutch places pressure on the crankshaft, many owners have reported clutch or shifting problems associated with the walking crank. Having the clutch 'stick' down on left-hand turns is often a telltale sign of crankwalk. Other symptoms include inconsistent engagement height, poor or rough engagement, difficulty shifting, ticking noises and varying pedal height or pressure. Another possibility is having the engine RPM decrease significantly when the clutch pedal is down. Use your best judgement WRT whether the car has been modified and reverted to stock. Pay attention to hose clamps, nuts/bolts on the exhaust mani/turbo area, etc...you know all that I'd assume. Check the front of the motor for leaks down low. If there is any evidence of leaking, pull the upper timing cover (4-5 10mm bolts) and try to see if it's coming from up high, and check if the belt is new/oil soaked/kevlar (yay). If up high it may just be the VC gasket or cam seals, if lower it is quite possibly the front main. If the TB is overdue, you can bet that the BS belt is too. Kevlar for at least the BS belt if you keep it (I see you said that you might ditch it, though). Both my 4g's had leaky valve seals by 110K, so a puff or three at startup could be associated with that. Also, the stock turbo on my second car (T25...not what is on this car, though...stock GVR4 turbo was a 14b) was done at 96K, so I'd pull the inlet tube and see how the shaft feels. Also see if there's a huge amount of oil in that tube from the VC breather...a thin film is OK, puddling is an issue lol. If the car is a sunroof model try to ascertain if it's a factory unit. I looked at a GVR4 a couple years ago and it had an aftermarket glass power moonroof that looked like a factory piece, but there was a shitload of bondo between the leading edge and the windshield to smooth it out. Yikes. That's it off the top of my head. If he's got records even better, and you obviously know cars well enough to pick out bad hoses/crappy electrical splices/etc. Here's a nice, clean stock engine bay...good reference shot (edit: just noticed it's RHD lol): Attachment 186153 |
Wow thanks dude, i'll keep all that in mind :)
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So is there ever a solid fix for the crank walk issue? Did they just use inferior bearing material for the thrust bearings?
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Originally Posted by wayne_curr
Wow thanks dude, i'll keep all that in mind :)
AFAIK there was not a sufficient revision to the thrust bearings from the factory to completely eliminate it. My friend has a proprietary fix for it where he modifies the bearings, but he ain't talking lol. Here's his site...maybe there's some info on it there. www.JacksTransmissions.com |
Originally Posted by matthewdesigns
(Post 818745)
No problem. And I just verified that all GVR4s were 6bolt from the factory, which for whatever reason didn't 'walk as much as the later 7bolts.
AFAIK there was not a sufficient revision to the thrust bearings from the factory to completely eliminate it. My friend has a proprietary fix for it where he modifies the bearings, but he ain't talking lol. Here's his site...maybe there's some info on it there. www.JacksTransmissions.com |
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still love my Gvr4. even though i haven't driven it in years, don't think i can part with it. didn't even want it when i bought it. i was originally buying a '92 gsx, but when i got there it wasn't anything like he claimed. totally pissed and had a hell ride on a bus to go pick it up, riding the bus back to Tx. from Michigan (1,785mi.) was not an option. I looked around and found my galant and figured I could sell it once i was back in Tx. Well it grew on me. So comfortable, and after i did some suspension upgrades it felt tight but compliant like a M car. I had 2 dsm's before this one and went big on the GVR4. port/pol. head 3 angle valve job, webb cams, crower ti retainers, valve springs, stainless swirl pol. undercut valves stems, ported everything, turbo housings, exhaust mani., intake. tial wastegate, greddy bov, intercooler, 4" turbo back exhaust, chipped ecu, Zo6 maf, maf translator, fidanza flywheel, act clutch, aws delete, 4 bolt rear and axles, on and on. like hustlers car of the galant scene. oh btw, tranny lasts about a year when your over 400whp and practice mechanical empathy. if you stay around 300whp or less they last a long long time.
few pics from a PCA DE/TT Attachment 186124 Attachment 186125 Attachment 186126 btw, 28-29psi feels awesome! |
Btw this ^^^^ is me. I was using jakes computer and forgot to login under my name. Lol
Also one other thing about these cars. The build quality, fitment, everything, is nothing like a dsm. Dsm's were built in america and unfortunately sucked because of it. The gvr4 was built in japan and is on another level compared to the dsm's. Chassis way stiffer, doors shut solid, even the A arms were boxed in. (welded by hand) |
Originally Posted by not jake but really spoolin
GVR4 sexiness
oh btw, tranny lasts about a year when your over 400whp and practice mechanical empathy. if you stay around 300whp or less they last a long long time. |
Yes someone who tracked one! What is the wheel and tire situation? 4x114 bolt pattern hurts my options. Im having trouble deciding on what the best route will be. 15s or 17s.
Im super excited to check this thing out! I hope i can talk him down a little though. |
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