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Old 03-29-2013, 12:53 AM   #41
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If you really step back and think about it, putting a turbo on something like a Prius makes a hell of a lot of sense. The Prius really ought to be a factory-turbocharged 750cc two cylinder.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:00 AM   #42
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Do a busa engine swap?
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:49 AM   #43
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If you really step back and think about it, putting a turbo on something like a Prius makes a hell of a lot of sense. The Prius really ought to be a factory-turbocharged 750cc two cylinder.
I read about some company that did all sorts of things to one of these, including boost, and achieved like double the mpg or something. It was very interesting.

The only thing with boost though is the engine really doesn't even get used like 40% of the time. This sucker just runs on straight electricity. So it'd be a whole lot of money/work/parts/weight for something not really needed most the time.

And yeah I'm going to go ahead and say it: I was SURPRISED by how peppy this thing is compared to our civic hybrid. Or even the previous prii. That's right, its PEPPY. lolol

I'm going to look up what its performance is compared to a stock na miata, and I'm almost willing to bet that its on par or close.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:28 AM   #44
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If you really step back and think about it, putting a turbo on something like a Prius makes a hell of a lot of sense. The Prius really ought to be a factory-turbocharged 750cc two cylinder.
It's impossibly expensive to turbo charge a car and requires VERY extensive engine work, a guy explained this on pg2 of the prius chat link..lol

I do recall reading a story of a guy adding a turbo to a gen 1 insight with decent results, different car, I know.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:01 AM   #45
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Probably better off installing a larger electric motor or hooking up a 2nd one to the first one?
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:04 AM   #46
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If you really step back and think about it, putting a turbo on something like a Prius makes a hell of a lot of sense. The Prius really ought to be a factory-turbocharged 750cc two cylinder.
and diesel.

with waste heat extraction.

but noooo, stupid mfgrs stop at little motorized shutters on the front grill opening.


... anyway.

the prius does use less GASOLINE even it it consumes more OTHER resources. I mean even if it consumes other resources, it only does it once. and most other new cars consume almost those same resources anyway.

so if you drive A LOT, then cool. And if you plan to keep it 10 years, awesome.

If you buy new cars every two years and drive 2000 miles a year, then get a Veyron or something.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:08 AM   #47
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'10 prius 17.3 @ 79.7
'90 miata 16.8 @ 80

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Old 03-29-2013, 11:17 AM   #48
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That's my biggest problem with the prius/other hybrids. Why no diesel version? Is the Atkinson cycle actually more efficient than diesel?
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:20 AM   #49
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I've no idea about any of that.

I do know that diesel is on par with, and often actually higher than, premium 91 around here.

This bad boy takes regular 87, which is like 30+ cents cheaper than diesel per gallon. The tank is something like 9 or 10 gallons. So basically miata-like fill ups, but something like 500+ miles per tank. All city too. I really can't complain about that.

They hold their value on par with the best of the best. They don't require special maint. They take the cheapest gas and still manage some of the best economy out right now, while offering all the practicality and comfort of the smaller sedans and wagons.

I figure we will probably keep it for the next 5 or so years, sell with minimal loss, and profit.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:25 AM   #50
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I probably should keep the vette the whole time we own this thing just to offset the gayness though
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:26 PM   #51
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That's my biggest problem with the prius/other hybrids. Why no diesel version? Is the Atkinson cycle actually more efficient than diesel?
weight and $$
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #52
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So, all this talk got me to thinking... what ever happened to the Honda Insight?

You may recall the first-gen Insight being a somewhat odd looking little beast. Two seats and not a lot of cargo room earned it strong criticism from reviewers, although it shares these attributes in common with another vehicle which I can think of.

Here's another attribute which it shared with the Miata: light weight.

How light? Try 1,870 lbs for the M/T with A/C, and 1,960 lbs with the CVT and A/C.

Yup. Honda's first mass-market hybrid, despite having two engines and a battery, weighed less than a 1.6 NA. Hell, it weighed less than a second gen Lotus Elise!

Mileage? Varies a tad depending on who you ask and which model is used (remember that the EPA process was re-scaled recently) but real-world reports seem to indicate 60 - 70 MPG is common with the M/T, and official ratings are in the 50-60 range.

How? They did it right. The Insight engine is a lean-burn 1 liter 3 cyl which drives the wheels directly through a conventional gearbox. Unlike the Prius, with its twin electric motor-generators and complex planetary "Power-Splitting Device", the Insight is a ridiculously simple design. All they did was replace the flywheel with an electric motor.

Literally, they just put a motor where the flywheel would normally go. That's it.



(It's also unique among all Hybrids in having a conventional starter as a backup, so you can drive it in "normal" mode even if the entire high-voltage assembly completely ***** itself, albeit with no alternator.)


These days, you can pick up a high-mileage used Insight for around $4,000 to $5,000. Oh, and they're damn near 100% aluminum, so no body rust.

"But what about the battery? It's out of warranty and will probably fail!"

True that. Aftermarket to the rescue. Turns out that there are not one but two companies offering brand new replacement batteries for $1,700 to $2,000.
Bumblebee Batteries Hybrid Battery Repair & Replacement
HybridReVolt: Hybrid Battery Repair

Hmm....


Of course, Honda has now totally fucked up the car. The current-gen Insight is a 4 door, it weighs a full thousand pounds more than the original, and it gets 40-45 MPG (bleh.) I hereby rename it the Honda Hindsight.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:40 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno94 View Post
It's impossibly expensive to turbo charge a car and requires VERY extensive engine work, a guy explained this on pg2 of the prius chat link..lol

I do recall reading a story of a guy adding a turbo to a gen 1 insight with decent results, different car, I know.
If you fully read the thread that was linked, someone DID turbocharge a prius, got substantially improved mpg -and- power, and only had to do...two things of that long list of BS the guy listed IIRC.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So, all this talk got me to thinking... what ever happened to the Honda Insight?
Being the douchebags that they are, they realized that its too awesome and watered it down 500% into the POS that is the Insight of today.

My brother had exactly the insight you're referring to: it was seriously awesome. He loved it. Drove it for 2-3 years, sold it and MADE 3 GRAND!!!!

They are so overpriced now its insane. 01s with like 200k still go for like 7-8 or something.

The current Insight on the other hand, is basically a civic hybrid wagon. So basically 100% FAIL and 100% AIDS
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:52 PM   #55
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Oh, and they're damn near 100% aluminum, so no body rust.
That, and awesome cast magnesium oil pan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Of course, Honda has now totally fucked up the car. The current-gen Insight is a 4 door, it weighs a full thousand pounds more than the original, and it gets 40-45 MPG (bleh.) I hereby rename it the Honda Hindsight.
Honda lost a boat load of money on every single original Insight. It was more of a technological exercise than a legitimate business model.

Depending on the exchange rate of the Yen, Honda is still probably losing money on the current Insight. But it's more of a viable vehicle from a business perspective.

That said, I find it hard to believe anyone would buy a new Insight, especially new off the lot. For the same money you can get a Prius that is better in absolutely every single way. That's probably why the Insight's sales numbers are pathetic.

The new Honda Accord Plug-In is Honda's first good attempt at a true hybrid since the original Insight. All the numbers and reviews look promising. Styling is awful of course...

If you can deal with a two seat car and aren't afraid of having a 140,000 mile hybrid, the original Insight is an amazing amount of kit for $4000-7000. Just don't tell your insurance company the body is all aluminum and if you get in a fender bender it's going to cost a small fortune to repair...

Last edited by Efini~FC3S; 03-29-2013 at 01:53 PM. Reason: what's a qutoe?
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #56
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When Honda redesigned the Insight, I really thought it was a new version of the Prius when I first saw it on the street. The Prius was more popular than the Insight, so Honda just made a Prius look alike.
Plus diesel exhaust is nasty stuff, especially the particulate emissions.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:05 PM   #57
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Being the douchebags that they are, they realized that its too awesome and watered it down 500% into the POS that is the Insight of today.
Yes they watered the Insight down, it's hard to argue with the logic though.

HMC couldn't continue losing $30k on every Insight they sold.

When designing the new Insight they knew they couldn't out-Prius the Prius so the design goal was to make the absolute cheapest mass market hybrid. Which meant compromising just about everything that made the original Insight great.

I think the goal of the project was to have a car that was 90% as good as the Prius for 70% of the money, something like that.

The car ended up being 70% of the car for 90% of the money.

You have to understand that they couldn't continue making the Insight as it was, losing tons of money all the while.

All that said, I would seriously consider a Prius or Prius V. I laugh at my co-workers who have Insights, even with the employee discount it's a terrible terrible car for too much money.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:15 PM   #58
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Neogenises2004 has one of the older Insights and loves it. I would have gotten one in a heart beat if they offered them new. I do not need more then a 2 seater in my DD and would have loved the additional mpg. I also thought they looked amazing.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
The new Honda Accord Plug-In is Honda's first good attempt at a true hybrid since the original Insight.
Plugins are a step forward, but the problem with the Accord is that it's still a parallel drivetrain with a big engine.

Make up your mind, automakers. Either use the battery as a booster for a tiny, gutless gas-driven ICE such as in the Insight, or use the gas engine as a portable on-demand recharger for a large, powerful battery system as in the Volt.

STOP ADDING ELECTRICAL MOTORS AND COMPLEX GEARBOXES TO LARGE GASOLINE ENGINES! IT'S THE WORST OF BOTH WORLDS!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Styling is awful of course...
I've given up on ranting about styling. I accept that automakers, including Mazda, no longer care about making cars that look nice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
If you can deal with a two seat car and aren't afraid of having a 140,000 mile hybrid, the original Insight is an amazing amount of kit for $4000-7000.
Believe it or not, I am actually finding myself tempted by this proposition. A $4k car, plus an engine and transmission overhaul, plus a new $2k battery, plus all the little brake / steering / suspension / bushing maintenance that it probably needs.

< $10k out the door for an essentially brand-new car that does 70 MPG all day long and weighs less than an Elise. And since it's essentially a conventional drivetrain, you could turbo it easily if you wanted to. I'll bet you a thousand dollars that with a bit of custom code, an MS3 could be made to control the whole thing. And since hybrids are exempt from smog testing in CA, we could even do this here!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Morshu View Post
The Prius was more popular than the Insight, so Honda just made a Prius look alike.
-and-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
The car ended up being 70% of the car for 90% of the money.
Yup. Honda actually failed at failing when they made the Hindsight nothing but a watered-down weaksauce knockoff of the Pious.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
HMC couldn't continue losing $30k on every Insight they sold.
Given that the Insight had an extremely simple, conventional drivetrain, coupled to one of the smallest, lowest-capacity motor/battery systems in the history of hybridness, I simply cannot imagine any scenario in which they could not, if they actually wanted to, produce and sell this car profitably.

Assuming, of course, that people wanted to buy it. And since people tend to make stupid decisions when buying cars (example) I can certainly see that end of it.

So here's an idea: chop the top off.

I am 100% serious. Build a 2 seat roadster version of the Insight. Keep the ***** little 3 cyl engine and hang a tiny little turbo on the side of it. Use LiMn or LiFe cells instead of NiMh, and distribute the cells throughout the chassis wherever you can find space for them. And here's the kicker: make it RWD, and put the electric motor at the back, attached to the diff. This way, you have the ability to de-couple the drivetrains and run in pure-EV at low speeds, while avoiding the cost and complexity of Toyota's PSD.

PEOPLE WILL BUY THAT CAR!
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:44 PM   #60
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I actually liked the insight. One that i really like is the cr-z.

I'm in love with that front end.
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