Yo, military guys, question
08-29-2012, 05:09 PM
#1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
Yo, military guys, question
A guy has been telling some, at least what I think are, tall tales of military service. Most of it smells of the typical "I was special forces, hoorah!" bullshitter type, but the point that I have trouble with is this.
He claims to have been in the Vietnam war at 16. Not "signed papers to join a later date", but "actual was in the service" (I don't know when that kind of thing starts, it may include boot camp?). However, he would have just about turned 16 when he joined, and would have had to have signed his papers to join (Or get recruited, or whatever it is, you guys know way better than I do about this) when he was 15 - unless he literally walked into the recruitment office, and got shipped off a week later or something I guess?
And it's not like you repeatedly state you joined in the wrong year/date/month/etc., at least not from the genuine military guys I know.
I'm thinking he's a BS artist, but I want to make absolutely sure considering I know nothing about Vietnam-era recruiting ages.
He claims to have been in the Vietnam war at 16. Not "signed papers to join a later date", but "actual was in the service" (I don't know when that kind of thing starts, it may include boot camp?). However, he would have just about turned 16 when he joined, and would have had to have signed his papers to join (Or get recruited, or whatever it is, you guys know way better than I do about this) when he was 15 - unless he literally walked into the recruitment office, and got shipped off a week later or something I guess?
And it's not like you repeatedly state you joined in the wrong year/date/month/etc., at least not from the genuine military guys I know.
I'm thinking he's a BS artist, but I want to make absolutely sure considering I know nothing about Vietnam-era recruiting ages.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 05:24 PM
#2
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Taos, New mexico
Posts: 6,595
Total Cats: 555
NO idea how true this is, but I've definitely heard stories of this type of thing happening back then. Again, no idea if its true, and I'm far from military.. i'll just see myself out.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 05:49 PM
#3
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
15, maaaaybe very early 16(1973): Signed up
Early 16 (1973): Entered service
Served tour of duty
At the end of tour of duty, immediately recruited into special forces training (He would have still been 16 here based on what he said, this would have been late '73)
Would have gotten through the said training on his first try, and (1974-1976) went on numerous missions that Rambo's director would have been proud to have plotted. Not Joking here, his stories were substantially over the top, and at least one based on chronology would have taken place after the Vietnam war ended. In Vietnam.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 05:52 PM
#4
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
I'm not military, but the father of a friend of mine lied on his enlistment paperwork and got into the Army @ 16. He participated in the Berlin Airlift, Korean Conflict and ended up as a no **** Green Beret in Viet Nam. I know that he said there were guys in the Army during Viet Nam that had also lied their way in, so I could see it as possible but not probable.
Green Beret @ 16-17? Now that is a stretch. There is certain level of maturity required for that kind of job that I really don't see in a 17-18yo. Just sayin'
Why does it matter? Just tell him "coolstorybro.jpg" and move on? In my limited experience, guys that talk about it the most are the ones that are usually full of it. Most of the guys who have served in Viet Nam are not asking for anything, and are pretty humble about their experiences.
Green Beret @ 16-17? Now that is a stretch. There is certain level of maturity required for that kind of job that I really don't see in a 17-18yo. Just sayin'
Why does it matter? Just tell him "coolstorybro.jpg" and move on? In my limited experience, guys that talk about it the most are the ones that are usually full of it. Most of the guys who have served in Viet Nam are not asking for anything, and are pretty humble about their experiences.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 05:53 PM
#5
the YOUNGEST recruit in vietnam was 16, and that was before boot. So if he says he served before that then he is full of ****, because it was hard ***** to get a 17 year old past the morals of the high command to let that young of a soldier in, and/or they lied about their age.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 05:55 PM
#6
I'm not military, but the father of a friend of mine lied on his enlistment paperwork and got into the Army @ 16. He participated in the Berlin Airlift, Korean Conflict and ended up as a no **** Green Beret in Viet Nam. I know that he said there were guys in the Army during Viet Nam that had also lied their way in, so I could see it as possible but not probable.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 06:20 PM
#7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
Why does it matter? Just tell him "coolstorybro.jpg" and move on? In my limited experience, guys that talk about it the most are the ones that are usually full of it. Most of the guys who have served in Viet Nam are not asking for anything, and are pretty humble about their experiences.
He originally had me almost busting out the wallet to donate to it, so there's some personal skin in the game.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 06:33 PM
#8
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
He served in Viet Nam and said there were guys who had lied their way into the service during the Viet Nam war, and I really have no reason to doubt his word. As to the experience part, replace "maturity" with "maturity and experience"
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 06:44 PM
#9
For the non military that is a big **** up.
101st airbone is a FAMOUSLY honored and hard-to-get-in army airborne devision.
E-9 for marines is a Master Gunnery Sergeant (you dont **** that up with an E-7 Gunnery Sergeant in the marines, bad juju)
E-9 for ARMY is Sergeant Major
Claimed he was an Airforce pilot for his first ENLISTED 4 years on a F-4 Phantom
Said his legs were blown up by a mine (believable) after fighting "skinnies" (believable) in Mongolia (LOLWUT?!)
After calling this legless man bullshit on front of tons of people, he later admitted to have been born without legs during his raging rant.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 07:00 PM
#11
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,645
Total Cats: 3,009
Blaen, there are far more people that were in the military during the Vietnam era than were ever in Vietnam. And there are far more people that claim to have been
specialforcesrangergreenberettheonlywhiteninjameda lofhonorpurpleheartgoddamnedeasterbunnyfighterpilo tpow than ever were. There are some real noshit war veterans that make serious business about tracking down the frauds and setting them straight. So if you have the guy's full legal name and current location I'll pass it on. Otherwise, fuch him, and don't give money away to everybody with a sob story.
I had the same deadbeat come up to me a year later with the same story about needing a to buy a water pump for his van and could I spare a ***** a dolla. My brother was with me the second time and I said to my brother (actual 82nd Airborne soldier), "You know this guy had the same story about a water pump for his van a year ago?" My brother bowed up and chased that ***** half a block before letting him get away, just to prove a point. And he aint get no dolla.
specialforcesrangergreenberettheonlywhiteninjameda lofhonorpurpleheartgoddamnedeasterbunnyfighterpilo tpow than ever were. There are some real noshit war veterans that make serious business about tracking down the frauds and setting them straight. So if you have the guy's full legal name and current location I'll pass it on. Otherwise, fuch him, and don't give money away to everybody with a sob story.
I had the same deadbeat come up to me a year later with the same story about needing a to buy a water pump for his van and could I spare a ***** a dolla. My brother was with me the second time and I said to my brother (actual 82nd Airborne soldier), "You know this guy had the same story about a water pump for his van a year ago?" My brother bowed up and chased that ***** half a block before letting him get away, just to prove a point. And he aint get no dolla.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 07:03 PM
#12
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
Blaen, there are far more people that were in the military during the Vietnam era than were ever in Vietnam. And there are far more people that claim to have been
specialforcesrangergreenberettheonlywhiteninjameda lofhonorpurpleheartgoddamnedeasterbunnyfighterpilo tpow than ever were. There are some real noshit war veterans that make serious business about tracking down the frauds and setting them straight. So if you have the guy's full legal name and current location I'll pass it on. Otherwise, fuch him, and don't give money away to everybody with a sob story.
specialforcesrangergreenberettheonlywhiteninjameda lofhonorpurpleheartgoddamnedeasterbunnyfighterpilo tpow than ever were. There are some real noshit war veterans that make serious business about tracking down the frauds and setting them straight. So if you have the guy's full legal name and current location I'll pass it on. Otherwise, fuch him, and don't give money away to everybody with a sob story.
I may throw it their way instead. I was planning to give his information to some local vets who wouldn't be very happy with his stories and charity-that-I-haven't-been-able-to-verify-anywhere* figuring they would know how to handle it way better than I ever would, but your solution may work a whole lot better. I'll have to mull it over.
*: I don't think it's real. Any registered charity should have some documentation somewhere on it.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 07:13 PM
#13
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SFL
Posts: 369
Total Cats: 3
My uncle signed up to the marines and hit bootcamp at 16 for vietnam, he however didnt get over there until after he way almost 18 due mainly to school (he did crypto)
not that same as your guy but not unheard of
not that same as your guy but not unheard of
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 09:39 PM
#15
The story here is just that... a story. The fact that there would be "controversy" about his age, and that he expect somebody to challenge him at some point is exactly what he's hoping for. From there, he really gets you hooked and ramps up his schtick.
I'm just a stupid flyboy, but I've had limited interaction professionally, and moderate friendships with several "operators" from various services.
AN ABSOLUTE FACT OF BEING IN SPECIAL FORCES IS THAT YOU SIMPLY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. None of them do. It's not because they're forbidden in most cases, it's simply because warriors of that caliber have no need or desire to impress anybody with their actions in combat. Almost anybody "bragging" about the stuff they did when in the "the shiz" is lying.
If he's your best friend and you guys get drunk together one night and the conversation naturally steers itself towards something he thinks you'll be truly interested in that he did, he may let something out, but it will be strictly from an educational-type point of view, never a "look what I did" aspect.
I'm just a stupid flyboy, but I've had limited interaction professionally, and moderate friendships with several "operators" from various services.
AN ABSOLUTE FACT OF BEING IN SPECIAL FORCES IS THAT YOU SIMPLY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. None of them do. It's not because they're forbidden in most cases, it's simply because warriors of that caliber have no need or desire to impress anybody with their actions in combat. Almost anybody "bragging" about the stuff they did when in the "the shiz" is lying.
If he's your best friend and you guys get drunk together one night and the conversation naturally steers itself towards something he thinks you'll be truly interested in that he did, he may let something out, but it will be strictly from an educational-type point of view, never a "look what I did" aspect.
Reply
0
0
08-29-2012, 11:40 PM
#16
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,645
Total Cats: 3,009
Blaen,
I ran it up the flagpole and this is what I got back:
So, if you want to pursue this, get his info.
I ran it up the flagpole and this is what I got back:
Lies.
For every man who served in RVN, there are now four or five who lie about having been there. Most of these clowns claim to have been snipers or SF... When you ask questions their “missions” were always “classified”, so there is, of course, no record of them having been there.
Check this excerpt::
INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS & THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE "Been There":
· 1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures).
· During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
· As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population
estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390
per day.
· During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is:
13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.
· The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally
reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections
and confirmations to this erred index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed
to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).
No way in hell he could have been there, or even in the Army at that age at that time. Also, SF did not take children… they recruited mature people…and still do…. usually senior E-5 or an E-6 with excellent track records. In 1973 the SF community, like all of the Army was in the middle of a huge reduction in force. They were throwing out perfectly good seasoned people to meet the new lower force levels… not taking in kids.
Tell him your old man is well connected with the SF community, has access to the data bases and is interested in hearing his story… Tell him that US Viet war history is a hobby of mine and we might end up using some of his material for a project we are working up.
Ask him what SF group and team he was with, where he was based in country, and during what period he was deployed. Also ask him when he went to Ranger school and what class he was in. If you can find some of the stuff he wrote, pass it on to me. Any details about his stories would help.
Re your e-mail. A “tour of duty” can mean anything… a tour in RVN? An enlistment? I can assure you that there were absolutely zero US Army personnel on the ground conducting ops in RVN, Laos or Cambodia after 27 January 1973, because that was the drop-dead date Kissinger negotiated at the Paris Peace Accords and Henry put his ***** on the dotted line when he signed. The only uniformed US troops were the guards at the US Embassy in Saigon and they came out under fire in April 1975… They were Marines.
There are some stolen valor organizations and websites that track these bastards down and make a show out of publicly humiliating them. There is also supposed to be a new data base listing 100% of the people who served in RVN and when they were there.
I need his full name and where he lives. If I have time, we might be able to fire him up…
Sounds like fun.
For every man who served in RVN, there are now four or five who lie about having been there. Most of these clowns claim to have been snipers or SF... When you ask questions their “missions” were always “classified”, so there is, of course, no record of them having been there.
Check this excerpt::
INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS & THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE "Been There":
· 1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures).
· During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
· As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population
estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390
per day.
· During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is:
13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.
· The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally
reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections
and confirmations to this erred index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed
to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).
No way in hell he could have been there, or even in the Army at that age at that time. Also, SF did not take children… they recruited mature people…and still do…. usually senior E-5 or an E-6 with excellent track records. In 1973 the SF community, like all of the Army was in the middle of a huge reduction in force. They were throwing out perfectly good seasoned people to meet the new lower force levels… not taking in kids.
Tell him your old man is well connected with the SF community, has access to the data bases and is interested in hearing his story… Tell him that US Viet war history is a hobby of mine and we might end up using some of his material for a project we are working up.
Ask him what SF group and team he was with, where he was based in country, and during what period he was deployed. Also ask him when he went to Ranger school and what class he was in. If you can find some of the stuff he wrote, pass it on to me. Any details about his stories would help.
Re your e-mail. A “tour of duty” can mean anything… a tour in RVN? An enlistment? I can assure you that there were absolutely zero US Army personnel on the ground conducting ops in RVN, Laos or Cambodia after 27 January 1973, because that was the drop-dead date Kissinger negotiated at the Paris Peace Accords and Henry put his ***** on the dotted line when he signed. The only uniformed US troops were the guards at the US Embassy in Saigon and they came out under fire in April 1975… They were Marines.
There are some stolen valor organizations and websites that track these bastards down and make a show out of publicly humiliating them. There is also supposed to be a new data base listing 100% of the people who served in RVN and when they were there.
I need his full name and where he lives. If I have time, we might be able to fire him up…
Sounds like fun.
Reply
1
1
08-30-2012, 12:19 AM
#17
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,611
Total Cats: 25
Many thanks Six. I've had an opportunity to think this over, and I'm going to copy your info plus what I've documented and turn it over to some local vets who can properly follow up on this. I'll mention your guy and whatnot, but turn this over to them. I just don't know enough about what I'm talking about to do anything more. All I know is I was about to pull out the wallet to donate to his charity, but when he mentioned his age my BS meter went off the charts. You can probably tell from the OP I wanted to scream BS, but was afraid that I was simply wrong because simply I don't know enough about this. I'm over my head here.
Reply
0
0
08-30-2012, 09:50 AM
#19
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,799
Total Cats: 179
Same deal with all the old-timers I know that saw action in WWII, Korea, etc.
If you want to donate something to a good cause with a military bent, we give to Wounded Warriors and to our alma mater which has some scholarship options for military members and vets that may not qualify for a GI Bill option.
Last edited by Scrappy Jack; 08-30-2012 at 10:03 AM.
Reply
0
0
08-30-2012, 01:03 PM
#20
Pure BS.
I agree with Sam.
All the real vets I've ever talked to (Friends, Co-Workers and Family)will tell you stories about this football or soccer game that they played at what time on base or how to fly Cobra missions or something funny that happened to them or their friends. Maybe even be pissed off that their mission was declasified and they got a bronze star for it.
None of those people will ever brag about missions. You might get an overview of what happened, no details though, and they are NEVER hero's.
My Father in-law went into the Air Force at 17 durring Vietnam...but that is realy as far as it goes.
I agree with Sam.
All the real vets I've ever talked to (Friends, Co-Workers and Family)will tell you stories about this football or soccer game that they played at what time on base or how to fly Cobra missions or something funny that happened to them or their friends. Maybe even be pissed off that their mission was declasified and they got a bronze star for it.
None of those people will ever brag about missions. You might get an overview of what happened, no details though, and they are NEVER hero's.
My Father in-law went into the Air Force at 17 durring Vietnam...but that is realy as far as it goes.
Reply
0
0
