Who's an expert on cutlery?
 

well for xmas i'm going to be buying us at least a starter set of nice knives. We've got really nice yamazaki flatware so i'd like a knife set and steak knives to go along with them. Neither of us are really experienced in the kitchen but sometimes it's fun to mess around. right now we're using junk that was given to us but i'd like to upgrade to a nice set. Something that will last my lifetime. Now the research i've done says that most people really only need 3 good knives, but i'd like a nicely populated block with a set of steak knives. So here's my deal, do i go ahead a get complete ~$300 set that's decent or do i buy a block and start small and slowly add on for a much more expesive set? I'm towards getting a big block and starting small and adding on, primarliy looking at the german brands of wusthof and j.a. henckels with a ~22-25 slot block. i don't like to buy junk twice, am i nuts? thoughts?

I splurged on a set of Shun Classic series with a block. They're phenomenal knives. Everything you wished you had 10 years ago when you had that crappy stamped steel BS.

You practically rest the weight of a knife on a ripe tomato and it cuts into the skin.

I like them for the narrower-than-normal sharpened edge (16 degrees vs. the standard 25 per side).

Global also makes great knives. but really it comes down to what you like. pick them up and hold them and check the balance.

And dont expect to get a deal. good knives are $100 each give or take.

thanks for the input, at least you didn't say i was nuts. And yes do i realize the price which is why i was thinking starting with a block and a small set and adding as i go. I can't justify a 1k set right now. I see you went japanese, their styling just isn't my thing which is why i was going german.

Shun is the best, calphalon amd heinkels are great, and there are a few decent brands. I abused my $35 sysco brand 8" chef knife for two years and have neglected to do anything but hone it for three years now. It's still sharper than a lot of cheaper knifed. The key is to get a stainless, high carbon blade. Honestly the chef knife is all you "need". A bread, some steak (for guests) a pearing, and a meat cleaver knife are nice, but again, not "needed". Splurge on a chef knife if anything.

If you buy a set, you can often get 4-5 useful knives in a block for the price of 3 individuals... that's why I got the Shun set.

oh and remember they can be sharpened! mine are due I think. it's been a couple years and one mysteriously got a big ding in the blade :(

I worked for cutco and they were the balls. The sets are not cheap but are top notch. I can't say enough about them. The products are garanteed for life. With full lifetime replacement if they ever break ( never going to happen) they also have a lifetime of free sharpening. If the blade is unable to be sharpened they give you a new one. The handle is heat resistant, melt proof, and non porus so no germs can stay/grow/live on them like a wood handle. The handle design is made to offer the best weight balance and grip for any size hand. They also offer a payment plan. It is usually something like 20$ per week or similar. These knives really sell themselves. One time using these knives and you will be hooked. Along with knives they sell flatwear, steak knives, spatulas, grilling utensils, garden tools, and so on. Call me biased but they are truelly amazing.

Blah do you really need a fancy knife? I cook every day and I love cooking. All you're doing is chopping shit up with a knife. That won't make you a better cook. It may make prep easier but that's it.

The best and most useful knife I have ever possessed or used is some rubber handled serrated chef's knife. It has small- 2mm or so serrations the length of the blade. It doesn't even have a brand name on it.

I don't like straight edge chef knives. I've had cutcos before and sharpening properly is a pain. If you like doing that shit then hurrah go and get yourself ten billion straight edge knives. My shitty serrated knife will cut through tomatoes and all sorts of stuff no problemo though. It also saws through winter squash too. There's nothing worse than having a fancy spiffy knife that's dull as squishy dogshit.

topic drift:

IF you want a sharp utility/belt/pocket knife though, I do recommend knives from the maker of Shun- kershaw. The Kershaw Caspar served me really well as a very very sturdy work knife. The Kershaw Ken Onion Chive is the sharpest knife I have ever used. I've sliced my flesh off accidentally with that too many times. It's tiny and nasty. When I was at a gun show recently I watched this guy casually oening it up and he sliced his thumb on it and blood puddled on the floor.

For a good "I'M GONNA KILL YOU MUTHAFUKA" intimidating work knife I recommend the Kershaw ZT line. Superb quality but way too big for your pocket unless you are paul bunyan or a nfl linebacker. KAI USA : ZT Product Details

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last thing. Probably the best straight edge cooking knife I had was some mild steel (help me out here metallurgists!) knife that was permanently rusty. It sharpened up realllllly easily and helped me get enough iron in my diet :)

My dad swears by kershaw, I love them for a cheap-ish but still high quality everyday carry pocket knife.....but I can't agree with this statement, Have you ever heard of Benchmade?

That's a bread knife you've got there. A better blade does indeed make you a better chef, not just a better prep cook. Slicing a tomato with zero effort is the sign of a good knife, and it should cut straight down through a squash. If sharping a blade is a pain, pay someone the huge sum of $10 to sharpen it for you. Simply honing it with a honing stick will put sharpening sessions about 6 months to a year apart. Sawing? I don't mean to go all Hustler on your ass, but I'm afraid you're dead wrong and the professional culinary world would laugh in you and your knife's face. That's as mean as I can be, sorry Hustler.

No it's not a bread knife. Explain to me please how a better knife makes you a better cook. Chopping is chopping and cooking is cooking. As for the professional culinary world, it seems that the more I pay for a meal, the cruddier it is. I know they love their fancy knives and stuff but they could cook just as well with a plastic butter knife as a spifforiffic knife.

Also, by squash I mean winter squash- acorn, butternut, delica etc.

:fawk:

He is telling the truth. Cutco knives straight rape shit on anything. $400 a set.

Most chefs would fall on their faces with a truly dull knife. A sharp one makes you faster and more precise. A good knife makes a good chef, I hardly got any compliments from the chef before I got my good knife, I had no idea how much the crappy dull one was holding me back. I never said you had to spend a lot, like I said my $35 sysco knife (think I got a discount though) served me well. As long as it's a high carbon stainless steel blade you're usually good. The expensive ones have more comfortable handles and are an even better steel, amd genrally longer. If you can afford it great, but a $50 ish knife would suit the creative home chef well.

Cutco = 440A. If I was going to pay that much for a knife set I would want something that uses a steel alloy more than two steps up from what is used in those $5 junk knives you see on every other table at the gunshows or weekend markets - those are 420 - run far and fast if encountered! There's a reason they use 440A, and it's not because it's good. However, to give credit where it's due, they DID do a good job of wringing every last bit of potential out of it (multi-stage heat treatment, using an edge other than straight, etc) so they're at least moderately decent - just not at the prices they're asking.

Frankly, I don't think you can go wrong with just about any set of knives a step above what you'd see on late-night TV or at JCPenney (or from some dude going door to door). If it fits your hand well, is made of a decent alloy, then I wouldn't sweat it too much - something like a Wusthof 10 or 14 piece set. I think 22 slots is overkill, but they're your knives. :D If I had to pick I'd go with Wusthof over JA Henckels (no experience with any other EU brands).

Yes cutco is pricey but they offer LIFETIME replacment and sharpening for free. I have two sets one at my mothers and one at my fathers and they are fucking amazing. My cousin who has graduated from Johnson and whales culinary school (college) has purchased the largest package offered by cutco and also swears by them. I'm sure is judgment in knives is pretty good I doubt they use cheap knives at a college...

my friends older sister sold cutco knives in college and i remember slicing through a soda can, but i don't eat soda cans...anymore. From all the reviews i've read, they're OK knives but you can get better knives for the same money. I was at the in-laws last night and my father in law loves to cook and subscribes to Cooks Illustrated. the nov-dec 09 issue had a little article on testing knives, particularly hybrid knives in this case. A $25 victorinox ranked 3 out of 10, $100+ knives by global and mac professional ranked 6 and 7 i believe. hmmm.

back to knives in general, i have a shit set that was given to me, the blades are dull and won't keep an edge, the handles are plastic and they are bendy. I'm used to my mothers set which isn't anything special by any means but way better than these. The japanese especially believe that a very important part of their food preparation is that the knife should cut everything without crushing anything and this will help the end product. like finely cutting parsely and when you're done it's still fluffy and a not a sloppy mess.

If you want a cool looking block of knives on the counter, get a set. If not, get a 8" or 10" chef, little paring knife, a filet knife if you cook fish, and a utility knife. Also, get a long, badass steel with a large guard and a $5 16" stone from a restaurant supply store.

I have a 10" Global chef knife because they're a decent steel at an affordable price, I like this handle more than any other:
http://iweb.cooking.com/images/produ...ge/135722e.jpg
...and I like a huge chef's knife. yes, its a $150 knife but I use it twice-per day, every day. I also really like the blade curve on this because it rolls from about 4"-out from the back of the blade. It doesn't hold an edge long, but I don't mind sharpening it because other qualities are superior.

Stay away from a Santoku knife because although people think they look cool and retailers sell lots of them, the shape of the blade only permits straight, chop cuts. Also, I had a Wusthof/Calphalon knife previously that when heated (fois gras) it warped like a bitch. My $8 spare chef's knife from Target didn't warp with heat and holds an edge forever, lol.

from what i've been reading about the global knives, some people love the handles and some hate them saying they are too low and they knuckle their cutting board. but i haven't actually gotten out to a real place to handle anything yet so....

the global handles can also get slippery if you've got sloppy skills.

I bet that sawing action is great for onions.




Then get a decent whet stone and sharpen your shit.



On topic:

Your first investment should be a good set of wooden cutting boards. If you're cutting on stone or tile, you might as well use a serrated ginsu knife you ordered from an infomercial.

A big part of chosing your knives is about how you're going to use them and your ability to care for and use them properly. There is a wide range is sizes, shapes, styles, and metallurgy. You've got to do your research and find what works best for you in your hands, for the things you are going to be cutting. Also it's good to have a wide range of knives in your collection, just like you wouldn't bring only a 1 iron and a putter to the golf course.

Through use I've found I'm a big fan of the japaneese knives, but you need to know the boundaries, and how to care for them properly.

The knife that probably gets the most daily use at my house is a Hiromoto Aogami Super Series 120mm petty. For steak knives I really like the Smith & Wollensky steakhouse knives.

I dont trust me to sharpen my knives. steel yes, but i'll let the pros do the work.

You guys are so old school.

I have owned quite a few high end knifes over the years but a year or so ago I got a set of these Kyocera ceramics for the old lady. They are SCARY sharp and I've yet to have to sharpen them. The only downside? They can be brittle do don't drop them on a tile floor. Be careful, they are truly razor sharp.

Welcome to Kyocera - Ceramic Consumer Products

I have a full Homemaker plus 8 from Cutco. They have always cut well and stayed sharp. I had a faberware set before this, so my opinion may be skewed since they were such shitty knives. I cut myself so many times with those and not once with my cutco ones.

What knives do you regularly use? Iuse a chef, paring, bread, and utility knife frequenly. I don't see the need for a huge set of knives.

My 2 cents.

1. Grandfather was a butcher. He swore by mild steel for meat cutting but it's almost impossible to find now.

2. A sharp knife can make you a better cook. The sharper the blade the less cells tear meaning less moisture is released when cutting, cooking or storing. World of difference? No, but it does exist. Any micro edge/eversharp/fine serration type blade tears the crap out of cells and are really only good for cutting bread.

3. A chef's knife can and will be used for 90% of your kitchen cutting chores. Buy the best you can. Steak knives and bread knives can be Ginsu's or Chicago Cutlery for all they really matter.

I love having shitty steak knives around that I can throw in the dishwasher. I use them for non-critical kitchen cutting like opening bags of raw meat and such. Plus they come in sets of a billion so you dont ever run out.

nothing sucks worse than having to wash your good chef's knife all the time.

They work great for scraping wood, scraping paint, turning tiny slotted screws, as a sharp prying edge and on and on. I have a couple in all my tool boxes, at work, in junk drawers, etc. Cheap steak knives rule as a tool fool.

Bought my mother these last x-mas... She loves them. Amazon.com: Shun Classic 3-Piece Boxed Flat Set: Home & Garden

What do I use mostly? The petty gets the most action. I've got two cheap bread knives that cut bread, pineapple, or anything with tough skin, or that I want a rough cut on. The Gyuto for cutting most meats. Santuko for most veggies and some finer meat slicing. A regular cheap chicago cutlary chefs knife for utility cutting. A standard cleaver if I need to power through some bone, or frozen things. We use our kitchen shears alot. But every knife has it's purpose, and I like having various types, and grades of blades. I'm not going to use my good steel on frozen beef, but I'm not going to use anything but my good knives for onions, 0 eye irritation.

I like ceramic, they're sharp and cheap, but you can't really ever sharpen them.

Yup, it is. :fawk:

I guess I use more knives than I thought too...but I HATE Santoku blades.

I took a basic knife skills class at a local community college.


From that class:

-Stay away from sushi knives. The blade is made at a special angle designed for cutting sushi which will absolutely suck at everything else.

-If you want to look trendy and ignorant, go for a santoku. The only difference between one and a chef's knife is that a santoku is made with the tip removed because it is considered impolite to "point" the blade at your guests when making food. Otherwise it is a chef's knife.

-My first choice would be whichever chef's knife feels best in your hand and feels like it has the best balance. If the blade has a scalloped edge that is a bonus.

-Don't forget to pinch grip and make sure the cutting board is larger than the knife. Steel the blade after each use and save sharpening for professionals.

We got a synthetic handled Victorinox block set, and then filled in the 2 open slots on the block with a Spyderco Santoku and a $12 Henckels utility knife. Been very pleased with the Victorinox set. The grind is a bit thicker than I prefer, but my wife is a little hard on knives and didn't want to worry about chipping an edge.

The angle on the "Sushi knives" is more in the handle and not as much in the blade. Not to say that the blade angle isn't different, but most of the high end japaneese knives, regardless of type, have at least a 60/40 angle rather than a 50/50 angle of most western knives. This along with the grade of steel used produces a thinner, lighter, and sharper edge. It will also let most professional sharpeners ruin the blade because they tend to use a machine to sharpen the knives, and try to force a 50/50 edge on them. Yes a traditional sushi knife is a poor choice for vegetables, some meats and utility cutting, you don't use a screw driver when the FSM calls for a 12mm socket do you?


A santuko was designed as a sort of bastard blade somewhere between a chef's knife and a chineese cleaver. Not because it's impolite to point, but for more of a multipurpose aspect.

I've got a Henckel set we bought about 8 years ago from Bloomingdale's when my wife worked there. I really like them (black handle) and have taken good care of them over the years. I personally don't throw them in the dishwasher b/c I hate to see the black handles fade, but that's personal preference. The chef's knife and the paring knife are the only ones that I've needed to sharpen. The bread knife is amazing at slicing bread, tomatoes, etc. The paring knife is great for tight things such as working a whole chicken, fruits/veggies, etc.

I'm sure that some people can get the job done with one or two knives, but a good set is like having a great toolbox. Sure, you could probably tighten every screw in the house with one flat-headed screwdriver, but wouldn't a mix of flat/phillip's head in different sizes make more sense?

Chopping garlic with that one serrated knife must be fun. :giggle:


Regarding cutting boards - I love wood, but typically use the plastic ones. Don't use granite/stone/hard surfaced ones unless you're cutting cheese with a dull, flat blade.

Oh yeah, these are middle-of-the-road Henckels. Not their high end stuff. We paid $50 for the set and block w/ sharpening stick.

we have both wood and plastic cutting boards. you shouldn't use the plastic one for raw meats.

I like Alton Brown's suggestions, here's the transcript from the episode:
American Slicer Transcript

Some of his tips:
-don't buy a set b/c you probably won't need all of the knives.
-test fit the knives, see how you like the feel and balance in your hand
-always handwash and dry

These are my favorite cutting boards, a wood pulp that you can put in the dishwasher:
Amazon.com: Epicurean Cutting Surfaces 15-by-11-Inch Kitchen Cutting Board, Natural: Home & Garden

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg
Also, I suggest checking out the local restaurant supply store as they are usually considerably cheaper than the other outlets.

Chris

I have the same thing but it's a pizza peel and you can use it as a cutting board. great stuff.

dishwashers ruin knives. too hot for the steel.

I've also heard the abrasive soaps (especially powdered) will dull a knife, bad for wooden handles as well obviously.

+1 on the restaurant supply stores, they should be much cheaper.

Fuck you! I love my knife. No I don't use it for chopping garlic. Chopped garlic sucks recipes. Smashing it with a mortar and pestle esnures maximum garlic flavor!

At least I know how to spell "ensure".:fawk::giggle::makeout:

figured i'd update this, after much deliberation i've decided on the wusthof classic series afterall. got out to some stores to handle and examine some steel in person and really liked them. I've come to the conculsion that they are the best knives with the best price as if that makes any sense. I've also decided to peice together my own set. I managed to buy a blockless set missing a piece for cheap, and this way i can get the larger block i want which holds 8 steak knives instead of 6. for right now i still need a steel, 6" utility, and the block. I will add the rest later.

Well, I was inspired by this thread. I upgraded to this nice set as well.

i have a similar stockpile of those i use at work