1967cutlass

Who said there could be no ITB's? If you had the skill and resources you could make your own for a few hundred bucks. It's been done before.

There isn't just one way to make power with a BP..

Anyway the cams and head are a lot more important than ITBs

1967cutlass

The argument of "well why aren't there people running around with such a setup" is invalid, because the people with the skills to do so know it's a waste of time when they could make a more powerful and more driveable turbo setup for the same cost or less.

Arkmage

iTrader: (3)

While I totally disagree that you can make 160 WHP normally aspirated for under $2K... I do agree that you can easily do 180+ WHP for under 2K with a DIY Turbo. I added up the cost of my setup yesterday and it came out to ~$1650. Once you figure in the upgrade to a BEGi downpipe (just ordered it Monday), It comes to $1975. Now granted... I need a clutch now, but someone could scrimp in a few places and swing it under $2K. My numbers include the megasquirt and all turbo parts (oil supply/drain, turbo, manifold, couplers, clamps, everything).

bryantaylor

iTrader: (5)

my ZE was fine on the limiter at 14psi

do a SHO taurus motor swap!

1967cutlass

Honda makes that much power with some of their 1.6's... The reason is that they have a badass head design (and vtec allows a really aggressive high rpm cam to be used while keeping the car driveable). The BP's biggest issue is the head and cams... and to make 160hp without variable valve timing it would suck to drive on the street. Which is why nobody does it.

And nice job on piecing together your turbo setup. I'm looking at 250-270hp on mine, costing between 1500-2000 with quality components (depending on how badly I nickel and dime myself towards the end).

Savington

iTrader: (31)

How do you expect to get timing advance without engine management, again?

You also don't realize that you can't just change the ECU crystal and crank the redline to the sky; the rods won't take 8000rpm worth of tensile loads, and the valvetrain will float like a cloud above 8k as well.

At BARE MINIMUM, you will need these parts, whether you make them yourself (valve springs, lol) or not:

-Headers
-Full exhaust
-Cams
-Full head port
-3-angle valve job (again, with a dremel, LOL)
-rods
-full valvetrain

Assuming you make the headers and full exhaust for the price of materials, let's say $50, cams will cost you at least $300 for 2 custom grinds. Rods are $300 at bare minimum, and a full valvetrain is $350. You haven't even touched off on motor machining or pistons to increase the compression, nor have you looked at an EMS.

But really, let us know when your 160whp N/A BP is running. I'm sure guys like Resonance and gibbp will be eager to hear your results.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

It's 'possible' in my opinion. You would need to do a lot of research and learning on your own. You guys that think it's "impossible" to do for 2K are ignorant. You can't reach your goals paying FM to do it for you, but you could if you did enough research and work yourself. Seriously, I can't believe everyone's jumping all over this guy. If you think cams and headwork is 10 hp your wrong. The headwork is the key. Without making a list of what you'll need, you can figure 40 bucks for a good book on modifying cylinder heads. The average joe dosn't know **** about what makes a head flow well.

You would have to make a lot of stuff yourself, and that would require you already have a welder, some tools, etc. If you live in an apartment with your mom, well, your SOL. You narrow minded people need to realize everything's not impossible, just because you can't do it.

Trent

iTrader: (11)

yeah, i blew mine. lol. but it was a really awful-looking imported motor i got from noyan motors in VA. I got about 20,000 out of it before it gave up the ghost though.

I miss that motor. Made a fantastic sound at full song.

Trent

iTrader: (11)

So Savington, remind me how many heads a BP has again?



sorry, couldn't resist. pet peave.

Everything else you say is dead accurate though.

I think Savington doubts HE can do it. That's the problem.

1967cutlass

You're making it sound more difficult than it is. I don't think the bottom end would need to be modified, and I would use 7800rpm as the rev limit with the peak power above 7000. I think buying used parts for the valve train could save a lot of money in this case.

You'd only need one header, which isn't really that expensive, and won't add all that much power on a miata anyway. It's not like you'd need a long *** 4-2-1 style one since it would be counter-productive. That wouldn't cost too much. A full 2.5" exhaust with no cats or mufflers would run maybe $150.

I haven't researched timing in the miata, but say you spend $300 on a megasquirt it leaves you well over $1000 to do whatever you want to the head.

Don't forget the race gas.

1967cutlass

You 100% got the point

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

Why would you pay to have a 3 angle valve job done to the head? How are you gonna do a 3 angle with a dremel, and not a set of carbide seat cutters?

He can blend the seats into the throat and into the combustion chambers. It's cheaper and better. When blending the bowls was banned in racing, racers got wise and started machining angles into the seats to help round them out. It was a loophole. It's not as good as real bowl work, and would be costly to have done, or do yourself. Do some research.

He could also undercut the stems of the valves between the guides and the face of the valve. It will reduce weight, increasing valvetrain stability at higher RPM's, as well as increase flow, as the less vavle is in the way, the more air can get in. This would be enough to get it to 7500 or so with no valve float.

I'm not sure, but I'd say with a 7500 RPM redline, you could get by on the stock rods. Run a 40W oil. Rods are debateable, they are definately on there limit at higer RPM's.

1967cutlass

^ Exactly, I don't think a lot of people realize how much power there is to be had in JUST the head. Also like you said it would definitely require research, or if you know people a phone call or two

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

I'd leave the compression stock too. Doing the bottom end is expensive, and 1 point of compression is only 4% more power, so going up from say 9 to 12 is 12% more power, but your paying dearly for it. I would spend my money on other parts of the motor. Make it breathe better, that's where our motors are lacking. Build a custom intake manifold and tuned 4:1 header. I've got a book called The Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems if anyone needs some specs for a header.

GAMO

iTrader: (1)

Honda makes a lot of power for a 1.6... with VTEC. What's the thing that the BP doesn't have? Oh yeah, that's right... variable timing.

1967cutlass

VTEC is only necessary for a street car. If your goal is just maximum HP or racing it's a waste of time..

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Do you even OWN a ******* Miata? As moronic as NA mods are, it's pretty common knowledge that a good intake and a good header are #1 and #2 on the list of NA power items. I think you're a ******* idiot because you make ludicrous statements like that, even though you have absolutely no way to back it up.


Oh yeah, a 130dB Miata is totally driveable on the street. :gay:

1. I refuse to consider a used valvetrain as an even REMOTELY viable used buy. There are certain parts you do not buy used; clutches, spark plugs, and valvetrains are on that list.

To do what with, retard? You don't have high-compression pistons, and not even the most aggressive spark map in the world will take advantage of race gas at 9:1 compression.

You're a new guy in this world, and you are flamboyantly throwing around statements that go against the experiences of DOZENS of people who have been doing this a LOT longer than you have. Find some humility and do a little research before you go tossing around moronic statements like that.

1967cutlass

Yeah we're definitely on the same page here

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

Vtec dosn't change the timing of the engine. It changes the lift and duration of the camshafts. Do your research. I-Vtec or something like that changes valve timing, as well as lift and duration.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

What? By your logic, a 7:1 motor only makes 12% less power than a 10:1 motor. Where did you come up with the 4%?