Why would anyone ever pay for a V8 conversion?
 

FM has had several buyers for their "all new parts" V8 conversions at $29,999 + an NB. The question is why when you can pitch the same check and pick this up for the same $29,900?

Only 7K miles.

I like.

Cars for Sale: 1997 Dodge Viper GTS in Hollywood, FL 33021: Coupe Details - 274486380 - AutoTrader.com

Anybody who spends $30k on a V8 swap in a Miata is an idiot anyway. It can be done for 1/4 that. FM might make good stuff, but they are damn proud of their parts.

The price I have come up with is $7500-$8000 using a swap kit from either FM or BossFrog, an LS1, trans, diff, new clutch, associated exhaust and other hardware. So $8,000>>>$30,000

If you're willing to spend that much for a v8 Miata you probably got a shit load of money and a new Viper.

Id take the viper over a V8 miats

so what you're saying is....


the miata should get the viper v10?

Yes!

Judging by their shipping prices, they're awful proud of that too.

Yeah that viper isnt a scam.

Even though the odometer is rolled back, a blue and white GTS has been my dream car since i was 10 which is when it came out for me. That car is damn sexy, and would have one over a v8 anything anyday. I can't say i have seen a gts that low, but i frequently see RT/10's in that price range.

So, what you're saying is that you'd take this:

http://bjmotors.biz/images/inventory...2/large_01.jpg


over this:

http://www.freewebs.com/ferrariporsc...rari%20F40.jpg

Given the relative price differences, I would myself.

Point taken though :)

id rather replace the Chevy parts when they fail over the Ferrari ones.

dodge!!!!!

Better yet,
this

http://www.motivemagazine.com/emAlbu...ctions-001.jpg

same american crap.

for someone who has no idea about cars... 30k might not seem so bad, a brand new miata costs that anyway.... so why not buy a good shell and end up with a brand new fast and reliable one.

Yes, the viper, I like ferraris,but the viper is ftw, and I will take mine with 2 turbos please.

If your going to cut the stock spoiler, might as well cut it all the way off from the body and professionally patch the body and then put the spoiler on... but to each their own i guess.

Yeah, stupid Ferrari for creating the LM version like that. You should be in charge.

That car is right around the corner from where I live. I belive I will go take a look at it in person....

I'd sell the viper and get a c5 or c6z.

Actually, I'd just keep what I have because its just as fast as any street vette or viper when I learn to drive, and tires are cheaper.

IMHO, it would be pretty hard to do for $7500. There are a lot of little things that add up quickly. Anyway, I have really been thinking about doing an LSx Miata. I think it would be the bees knees but a huge turbo would be nice too. It really kills me that if I spent the big $$$ to do a V8 I still wouldn't be faster than what Beast was with just a small turbo. I still have 2 years before I start my next project so I have some time to figure out what I am really going to do.

I've started the web page for it though <G>:

http://www.lightweightmiata.com/mynextcar/

A V8 Miata with hard top and fender flares (or same thing with big turbo) isn't on there but it goes without saying I am looking into it.

My reason is 300hp+ stock, reliable, decent fuel economy, torque central, ect. It may go a touch over $7500, but I have sat and written down every little part I could think of, plus tagged on an additional $500 for the oddball parts I may have forgotten. Even $10,000 wouldn't upset me too much if it's required to do it right the first time.

I've sources LS1 and T-56's with under 40k miles for ~$2200, Ford 8.8 plus a rebuild and r&p for around $1000, both halves of the FM kit around $4000, and I have a bit of a hook up on the other little bits and pieces. So the major components are around $7200. I would also do suspension while I was at it, so it likely will be over $10k by the time it's done. I also don't like to cut any corners, an extra $1000 doesn't bother me to have peace of mind. People without a hook up will probably spend $10k realistically. I'll probably retire the car to strip down within the year. Actual build will be quite lengthy I'm sure. A lot of time spent in build progress. Then again, I'm known to start a project, then sell it and start on something else. I have yet to sell a car for even 1/3 of what I had into it. I'm smart like that. I think I will stick this one out though, I have nearly learned that lesson. My last car had about $8000 into it, and I sold it for $2700. That was about half of my Miata.

that 7500 is more like 10k to do. which is still a far cry from 30

Late to the party bro!

"People without a hook up will probably spend $10k realistically."

:loser:

And so would you. Its easy to plan this shit out when you're sitting there making a list based off shit you see other people do. When it comes down to doing it yourself, suddenly even with all your "hook ups" you're still spending more than expected.

But you wouldn't know that:giggle:
Or would you?

Britch prease! I've bought my fair share of parts in my short day. I didn't look at anyone's build, but priced all of this on actual prices I could purchase them for. If I was just doing the bare minimum, like no new clutch, and no other little peace of mind parts, I could get it done for my above price of $7500-$8000, likely the upper end of that scale. With the other optional parts and suspension junk, it will be over $10,000 easily. Just the damn Bilstein revalve is going to be over $1000, then add the GC and springs... :cry:

But again, I like to drop a few grand into it, then sell it and start over. Someone will be getting a Miata rolling chassis with bolted in LS1 for $2800 in about 2 years when I throw up my hands. :bowrofl:

So do it then. And prove me wrong. Otherwise you're just a keyboard fucking warrior.

I thought my shit would cost me 2k TOPS to boost and make quick. I have the tools, I have hookups on parts, I have fabrication skills, all that shit. And guess what? I STILL cost wayyyy more than I projected. And this with a simple turbo setup (well not THAT simple anymore but whatever). You're talking about stuffing a completely different driveline into a completely different car.

Seems so simple right? WRONG

Most of the time that kind of shit happens.

I'll show you! In about 3 years when and if I finish. I'm well aware of the unexpected factor. It has happened with everything I have ever built, but I get a good feeling with this one (don't fuck up my good mojo). But yes, basically now I am just a keyboard warrior. Shit, I have been planning a turbo build since I got the car like 3 years ago and I'm still rolling on a stock engine. Really haven't had the funds or the time lately to do much of anything besides get by. Once my life settles back down I will start spending them greens again. That's the only reason I don't start now, I barely have enough income to pay my debts and put gas in my car.

I believe SanginAIDS and I are the kings of "unaware factor." I think he and I have broken everything which can be broken.

I'll agree to that. Parts that weren't even originally on the car have ended up under the hood broken. Eating other cars at the track I guess. Parts warping from other dimensions in pieces. Had to buy replacement valve stem caps yet? They haven't burst into flames yet?

I have shit luck with cars, but you guys take the cake, and somehow still keep on ticking. I would have gotten pissed and quit long ago.

fuck yeah lol

FM is charging 30K

How much is Nathan "swaptastic" charging?

I still can't believe the fact that some of you would take a dogde viper over a Ferrari, that's just retarded.

So, $30k plus a really nice NB as a starter... so, you're talking close to $40k in the end? If you must have a roadster, you can get a fully optioned Factory 5 Cobra with all the trimmings and built smallblock. Shit, I think you can get one turnkey for that!

Every one of these cars is for sale on CobraCountry for under $40k, and there are about a dozen more I didn't link:
http://www.cobracountry.com/cobra4sa...odabasi-tx.jpg
http://www.cobracountry.com/cobra4sa...n-blue-al4.jpg
http://www.cobracountry.com/cobra4sa...ra-hall-ca.jpg

Speaking of all things Cobra-ish, what's Corky charging for a CB/1?

More than you can afford, pal.

I looked once.. I think something like 30k..

Comparing a boneyard LS1 and T56 with 40k miles to a factory zero mile warrantied LS3, brand new warrantied t56, brand new clutch/flywhee/wiring harness/PCMl is a bit retarded. Sorta like comparing Corky's Garrett 2871 at $1300 to an ebay Chinacharger at $300.

Newsflash. It's a lot of fucking labor. Take out dash. Cut firewall. Weld firewall. Mod trans tunnel. Wiring. More wiring. Some more wiring. Heat shrink. Solder. Fab.

I have no interest in a non-convertible Viper.

Sure I've saved a bunch of labor over FM's offering, but I'm not done yet and it's been almost a fucking year. Hell, if I could do it over, I'd probably just buy v8roadsters Moose which they're selling for $26500 with a freshly rebuilt LS6/t56.

Some people's time is worth more than others.

Frank

So... what's left on your project?

It was started and running before the weather got cold. I had to pull both headers and redo the flanges. I also needed to swap starters. That's done, but there's so much snow around now I'll just wait til it warms up next month. Plus I pulled the motor in my wife's Sebring because it was leaking coolant and the oil and coolant mixed so I'm putting in a 3.0 Eclipse motor. Both are sitting on a stand now. Need to finish doing the timing belt and water pump before I put it back in.

I'm just sick of this weather. Too much crap/parts packed into my garage and my motivation is low until it warms up.

Frank

That's all? How in the hell is F5 still in business?

That can't be right...

...and? Is it not obvious that a stock low mileage LS1 is not a brand new LS3? If $30k is worth the brand new parts, good for them. I'm not that rich or dumb. If I can even save a few grand by doing it myself I will likely go that route. Not sure exactly what your argument is here though, I may be misunderstanding your meaning.

It wasn't obvious to you as you said:

"It can be done for 1/4 of that." Bullshit.

If you can do an LS3/T56 swap with all new shit that they are including for $7500 + the price of the car, I'll take ten and turn around and sell them for $25k.

There have been 10 threads in Miata.net conversions where people come in thinking they can do an LSX swap for $7500 or less + price of the car. Guess how many have come back having successfully done it.

ZERO.

Frank

I think you missed Frank's point. The people who are shopping at FM for a turn key LS powered Miata find it a lot less expensive to spend $30k on that car than to spend the time to build it themselves. The value is not so much what they're getting for the money, but what they're not wasting doing it themselves.

A V8 swap mormon, not a Brand new parts LS3 swap. Don't be getting all preachy with me bro! :giggle:

Not to sound like a back peddler, but I did kind of mean $8,000 for the MAJOR stuff, and that was with a few hundred dollars extra thrown in. I always expect the unknown costs. I guess "get it done" sort of implied turn the key and drive off.

Either way, even if my numbers are off, I MYSELF am not the kind of person to spend $30k (not that I would spend that much anyway) on something I can get done with good condition used parts for MUCH MUCH less. I'll fudge my original numbers a bit and say 1/3. :blah: I still think I can get the basic swap done for under $10k. I'll just have to prove it. I have ways of squeezing pennies out of peoples asses. And again, I've got them mad skillz with connections.

You know how many people flew in a heavier than air aircraft before 1903.

NONE!!!

^ I understood what he was saying.

This. The other half of it is that they don't have the experience or desire to spend several dozen hours dropping a V8 into a Miata. This seems foreign to all of us since this forum is chock full of DIYers, but there are some folks out there who don't enjoy working on cars - they enjoy owning them and driving them.

For the same reasons I would never re-shingle my roof, or install my own swimming pool (no desire to do that kind of work, plus no desire to fix the mistakes I will inevitably make doing that kind of work), those people would never install a V8 in their car. It shouldn't be terribly hard to understand this.

I can understand that fully. I guess it just doesn't feel right to me to spend that kind of money on something I can do myself with a little reading up and know how. It also just doesn't seem as satisfying having someone else do something for you. To me half of the enjoyment is standing back when it's all done and admiring your handy work. Even if only for a few thousand miles until something breaks. :giggle: Anything I didn't know how to do, I learned. Plus I come from a long family of DIYers (cheap asses more or less) and know how to do just about anything involving my hands (yes that too Hustler ;) ) so I just couldn't spend $30k on an engine swap into a nearly 20 year old car. Even if I had the money to do it, I wouldn't do it. But again, I can understand for those people who can afford it and don't have the know how. I just think some of the people who do buy stuff like this maybe could do it themselves, they just don't have the will to learn or try. If that is their choice, good for them.

Oh, I still stand by my "anyone who spends $30k on a V8 swap is an idiot" statement. For that kind of money I could think of a lot of other shit I would rather have. But again, their money, not mine.

People like what they like, and there's simply no accounting for it.

Some folks spend $50-$100k on custom motorcycles.

Some folks spend $100-$300k on RVs or boats.

A co-worker of mine spent roughly $45k having someone else restore a mid-70s FJ40 to showroom condition for him.


Heck, some folks buy new cars from the dealer. Priced a Toyota Camry lately? The one with the "L" slapped on the front grille starts at $35k for the base model. Add the Nav system, the fancy radio, the "Luxury" package and a few other options and you're scratching at $50k.


By those numbers, $36k for a V8 daily driver is a downright bargain.


And yeah, I can't see why this is a mystery- Sav & Frank have got it nailed. Some folks don't enjoy building cars any more than I enjoy building refrigerators. I'll gladly pay Frigidaire to do that for me.

I am with Sam on the Cobra part.

To each their own, I suppose the sleeper factor and the new and wow factor of a LS3 Miata have their draw, but those Cobras are some of the most desirable cars I have ever seen IMHO. I wuld get one of their Brock concepts myself for the hardtop and aerodynamic factors. Thats a turn key car right there, with a more focused chassis to boot.

I will take a moment to laugh at 500 bucks for MISC. Shit decent fluids for the engine/ driveline will cost you nearly a hundred bucks. The amount of fast orange, fast food, and beer consumed over the course of the project will eat the rest of that.

Just wondering, are any of our LS miata members tracking their cars? Any feedback on how a LS powered miata fairs as a track toy, compared to a well built turbo car?

Where is the mystery? :dunno: I said I see the point made, but it's not something I would personally do.

They suck. Loose nuts and external piston rods are much better. :winner:

:facepalm:

Come on, I've had a long day, just play along.

Hahaha,

I fully believe that the LS/miata SOUNDS like a perfect solution for the loosening stud/nut ordeal that the track guys deal with. As far as I can tell though, the few members here with LS1 miatas, don't track them.

I know they are bad ass tire smokers, and I understand all the reasoning why they would be great track monsters, but is there any guys actually DOING it? And are there any unknown issues, such as cooling? Etc. It would also be great to get a good drivers input, on how the car felt. Something along the lines of Savingtons review of the Kraftwerks SC, which was excellent BTW.

FM seems to like theirs for the track, but its not without problems:

Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project

Flyin' Miata : Projects: The V8 Miata Project

I would not blame the engine there though.

I won't be tracking mine. I just want a good weather toy. I might hit the strip a few times for bragging rights and to legally drive like an ass for 11.xx seconds but I've done all that shit before. Tracking it would be cool, but I would have purpose built it without OBDII shit, interior etc. I just want a nice fun ride.

I totally agree with the DIY approach as I like saving my money as much as anyone. And at the end of the day, there's something to be said for doing it myself. Hell I almost put my own pool in last year until the county screwed me on permits.

That said, I'm 41, have a 6 year old kid, work full time, get up at 4:30 in the morning and don't get home to 5:30 at night. I do have 3 day weekends but my wife works weekends so I have kid duty much of that. Then there's shit like home ownership, fixing tile, drywall, relaxing, having a few beers, digging out of this fucking 2 feet of snow we've had in Baltimore, etc.

Aside from the Miata I'm throwing a new motor in my wife's Sebring. My time at this point is worth more than my money. The extra $15k or so I save from DIY spread over the year it has taken to do it almost makes it not worth it. Shit, I spend $150/month on DirecTV and FIOS internet.

Frank

I understand why you say that, when I was in my 20's,I would have said the same thing because spending that much money on a mod would have been unimaginable. I'm at a later stage in my life, as you age constraints and perspective changes . I'm on the waiting list to have FM do a V8 swap on my car and I'm certainly not an idiot.

As far as doing the swap for 1/4 of that, my research shows that most are spending 15k to 20k for an LSx swap, once they add up all the actual costs. Of course, some swaps can be done for less, but that is the exception, not the rule. This was a tough decision for me because it is the most financially irresponsible thing I have ever done.

I am able to justify spending the money for several reasons. I have always been prudent when it comes to cars, I don't drive expensive cars or trade them in every few years, my OTM is a 12 year old Jeep Cherokee. I am also selling my 94 Laguna Blue to help pay for it. I don't want a Viper or a Corvette, I want a V8 Miata. I also don't have space or time to do a mod of this magnitude.

I don't have deep pockets and am by no means rich, but I do earn a good income and my only debt is my house which will be paid for in less than 2 years. I am paying cash so it results in no financial hardship and I will wind up with a basically new car. For me personally, this is a no brainer.