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Yo, military guys, question
A guy has been telling some, at least what I think are, tall tales of military service. Most of it smells of the typical "I was special forces, hoorah!" bullshitter type, but the point that I have trouble with is this.
He claims to have been in the Vietnam war at 16. Not "signed papers to join a later date", but "actual was in the service" (I don't know when that kind of thing starts, it may include boot camp?). However, he would have just about turned 16 when he joined, and would have had to have signed his papers to join (Or get recruited, or whatever it is, you guys know way better than I do about this) when he was 15 - unless he literally walked into the recruitment office, and got shipped off a week later or something I guess? And it's not like you repeatedly state you joined in the wrong year/date/month/etc., at least not from the genuine military guys I know. I'm thinking he's a BS artist, but I want to make absolutely sure considering I know nothing about Vietnam-era recruiting ages. |
NO idea how true this is, but I've definitely heard stories of this type of thing happening back then. Again, no idea if its true, and I'm far from military.. i'll just see myself out.
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Originally Posted by Fireindc
(Post 921037)
NO idea how true this is, but I've definitely heard stories of this type of thing happening back then. Again, no idea if its true, and I'm far from military.. i'll just see myself out.
15, maaaaybe very early 16(1973): Signed up Early 16 (1973): Entered service Served tour of duty At the end of tour of duty, immediately recruited into special forces training (He would have still been 16 here based on what he said, this would have been late '73) Would have gotten through the said training on his first try, and (1974-1976) went on numerous missions that Rambo's director would have been proud to have plotted. Not Joking here, his stories were substantially over the top, and at least one based on chronology would have taken place after the Vietnam war ended. In Vietnam. |
I'm not military, but the father of a friend of mine lied on his enlistment paperwork and got into the Army @ 16. He participated in the Berlin Airlift, Korean Conflict and ended up as a no shit Green Beret in Viet Nam. I know that he said there were guys in the Army during Viet Nam that had also lied their way in, so I could see it as possible but not probable.
Green Beret @ 16-17? Now that is a stretch. There is certain level of maturity required for that kind of job that I really don't see in a 17-18yo. Just sayin' Why does it matter? Just tell him "coolstorybro.jpg" and move on? In my limited experience, guys that talk about it the most are the ones that are usually full of it. Most of the guys who have served in Viet Nam are not asking for anything, and are pretty humble about their experiences. |
the YOUNGEST recruit in vietnam was 16, and that was before boot. So if he says he served before that then he is full of shit, because it was hard balls to get a 17 year old past the morals of the high command to let that young of a soldier in, and/or they lied about their age.
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 921040)
I'm not military, but the father of a friend of mine lied on his enlistment paperwork and got into the Army @ 16. He participated in the Berlin Airlift, Korean Conflict and ended up as a no shit Green Beret in Viet Nam. I know that he said there were guys in the Army during Viet Nam that had also lied their way in, so I could see it as possible but not probable.
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 921040)
Why does it matter? Just tell him "coolstorybro.jpg" and move on? In my limited experience, guys that talk about it the most are the ones that are usually full of it. Most of the guys who have served in Viet Nam are not asking for anything, and are pretty humble about their experiences.
He originally had me almost busting out the wallet to donate to it, so there's some personal skin in the game. |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 921040)
I know that he said there were guys in the Army during Viet Nam that had also lied their way in
Originally Posted by Pen2_the_penguin
(Post 921043)
here is the problem with that story, he enlisted in a time that was easy to lie. What the question is that a soldier being experienced and serving IN vietnam at 16.
He served in Viet Nam and said there were guys who had lied their way into the service during the Viet Nam war, and I really have no reason to doubt his word. As to the experience part, replace "maturity" with "maturity and experience"
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 921040)
Green Beret @ 16-17? Now that is a stretch. There is certain level of maturity required for that kind of job that I really don't see in a 17-18yo. Just sayin'
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Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 921051)
He's asking for (large) charitable donations for a Veteran's charity I've been unable to find documentation on.
He originally had me almost busting out the wallet to donate to it, so there's some personal skin in the game. For the non military that is a big fuck up. 101st airbone is a FAMOUSLY honored and hard-to-get-in army airborne devision. E-9 for marines is a Master Gunnery Sergeant (you dont fuck that up with an E-7 Gunnery Sergeant in the marines, bad juju) E-9 for ARMY is Sergeant Major Claimed he was an Airforce pilot for his first ENLISTED 4 years on a F-4 Phantom Said his legs were blown up by a mine (believable) after fighting "skinnies" (believable) in Mongolia (LOLWUT?!) After calling this legless man bullshit on front of tons of people, he later admitted to have been born without legs during his raging rant. |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 921054)
:bigtu:
He served in Viet Nam and said there were guys who had lied their way into the service during the Viet Nam war, and I really have no reason to doubt his word. As to the experience part, replace "maturity" with "maturity and experience" |
Blaen, there are far more people that were in the military during the Vietnam era than were ever in Vietnam. And there are far more people that claim to have been
specialforcesrangergreenberettheonlywhiteninjameda lofhonorpurpleheartgoddamnedeasterbunnyfighterpilo tpow than ever were. There are some real noshit war veterans that make serious business about tracking down the frauds and setting them straight. So if you have the guy's full legal name and current location I'll pass it on. Otherwise, fuch him, and don't give money away to everybody with a sob story. I had the same deadbeat come up to me a year later with the same story about needing a to buy a water pump for his van and could I spare a nigga a dolla. My brother was with me the second time and I said to my brother (actual 82nd Airborne soldier), "You know this guy had the same story about a water pump for his van a year ago?" My brother bowed up and chased that nigga half a block before letting him get away, just to prove a point. And he aint get no dolla. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 921064)
Blaen, there are far more people that were in the military during the Vietnam era than were ever in Vietnam. And there are far more people that claim to have been
specialforcesrangergreenberettheonlywhiteninjameda lofhonorpurpleheartgoddamnedeasterbunnyfighterpilo tpow than ever were. There are some real noshit war veterans that make serious business about tracking down the frauds and setting them straight. So if you have the guy's full legal name and current location I'll pass it on. Otherwise, fuch him, and don't give money away to everybody with a sob story. I may throw it their way instead. I was planning to give his information to some local vets who wouldn't be very happy with his stories and charity-that-I-haven't-been-able-to-verify-anywhere* figuring they would know how to handle it way better than I ever would, but your solution may work a whole lot better. I'll have to mull it over. *: I don't think it's real. Any registered charity should have some documentation somewhere on it. |
My uncle signed up to the marines and hit bootcamp at 16 for vietnam, he however didnt get over there until after he way almost 18 due mainly to school (he did crypto)
not that same as your guy but not unheard of |
meh there are plenty of known places to give money than to take a chance on something you are not sure.
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The story here is just that... a story. The fact that there would be "controversy" about his age, and that he expect somebody to challenge him at some point is exactly what he's hoping for. From there, he really gets you hooked and ramps up his schtick.
I'm just a stupid flyboy, but I've had limited interaction professionally, and moderate friendships with several "operators" from various services. AN ABSOLUTE FACT OF BEING IN SPECIAL FORCES IS THAT YOU SIMPLY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. None of them do. It's not because they're forbidden in most cases, it's simply because warriors of that caliber have no need or desire to impress anybody with their actions in combat. Almost anybody "bragging" about the stuff they did when in the "the shiz" is lying. If he's your best friend and you guys get drunk together one night and the conversation naturally steers itself towards something he thinks you'll be truly interested in that he did, he may let something out, but it will be strictly from an educational-type point of view, never a "look what I did" aspect. |
Blaen,
I ran it up the flagpole and this is what I got back: Lies. For every man who served in RVN, there are now four or five who lie about having been there. Most of these clowns claim to have been snipers or SF... When you ask questions their “missions” were always “classified”, so there is, of course, no record of them having been there. Check this excerpt:: INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS & THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE "Been There": · 1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures). · During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958. · As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day. · During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not. · The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this erred index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365). No way in hell he could have been there, or even in the Army at that age at that time. Also, SF did not take children… they recruited mature people…and still do…. usually senior E-5 or an E-6 with excellent track records. In 1973 the SF community, like all of the Army was in the middle of a huge reduction in force. They were throwing out perfectly good seasoned people to meet the new lower force levels… not taking in kids. Tell him your old man is well connected with the SF community, has access to the data bases and is interested in hearing his story… Tell him that US Viet war history is a hobby of mine and we might end up using some of his material for a project we are working up. Ask him what SF group and team he was with, where he was based in country, and during what period he was deployed. Also ask him when he went to Ranger school and what class he was in. If you can find some of the stuff he wrote, pass it on to me. Any details about his stories would help. Re your e-mail. A “tour of duty” can mean anything… a tour in RVN? An enlistment? I can assure you that there were absolutely zero US Army personnel on the ground conducting ops in RVN, Laos or Cambodia after 27 January 1973, because that was the drop-dead date Kissinger negotiated at the Paris Peace Accords and Henry put his balls on the dotted line when he signed. The only uniformed US troops were the guards at the US Embassy in Saigon and they came out under fire in April 1975… They were Marines. There are some stolen valor organizations and websites that track these bastards down and make a show out of publicly humiliating them. There is also supposed to be a new data base listing 100% of the people who served in RVN and when they were there. I need his full name and where he lives. If I have time, we might be able to fire him up… Sounds like fun. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 921122)
Blaen,
I ran it up the flagpole and this is what I got back: So, if you want to pursue this, get his info. |
Good call blaen99. People who lie about this stuff make me sick. :mad:
Really hope the people you hand him over to get some positive results. |
Originally Posted by blaen99
(Post 921051)
He's asking for (large) charitable donations for a Veteran's charity I've been unable to find documentation on.
He originally had me almost busting out the wallet to donate to it, so there's some personal skin in the game. Same deal with all the old-timers I know that saw action in WWII, Korea, etc. If you want to donate something to a good cause with a military bent, we give to Wounded Warriors and to our alma mater which has some scholarship options for military members and vets that may not qualify for a GI Bill option. |
Pure BS.
I agree with Sam. All the real vets I've ever talked to (Friends, Co-Workers and Family)will tell you stories about this football or soccer game that they played at what time on base or how to fly Cobra missions or something funny that happened to them or their friends. Maybe even be pissed off that their mission was declasified and they got a bronze star for it. None of those people will ever brag about missions. You might get an overview of what happened, no details though, and they are NEVER hero's. My Father in-law went into the Air Force at 17 durring Vietnam...but that is realy as far as it goes. |
Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack
(Post 921209)
If you want to donate something to a good cause with a military bent, we give to Wounded Warriors and to our alma mater which has some scholarship options for military members and vets that may not qualify for a GI Bill option.
CSB time. I had an uncle who lost the use of his left side in Korea. Sadly, he died a few years ago, but he received regular help from local Veteran's charities. As a result, I have a very soft spot for any kind of vet's charity. I don't think any other cause can get me to donate money without a lot of research and mulling over it. |
My grandpa was 82nd with jumps in WWII. He died when I was about 15, and I was very close to him. He was very extroverted, and he flew the American Flag on a 40 ft. flagpole in his front yard until the day he died. I never once heard a single military story from him.
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Originally Posted by MicaCeli
(Post 921291)
All the real vets I've ever talked to (Friends, Co-Workers and Family)will tell you stories about this football or soccer game that they played at what time on base or how to fly Cobra missions or something funny that happened to them or their friends. Maybe even be pissed off that their mission was declasified and they got a bronze star for it.
None of those people will ever brag about missions. You might get an overview of what happened, no details though, and they are NEVER hero's. I spent 3 years (about 6 years ago) as a Shooting Sports Director at a Boy Scout camp and I've had about 10-15 current service members come hunt me down and thank me for teaching them the basics. I'm actually not that great a shooter, but apparently I can teach. It freaks me out to know that I gave them the foundations of a skill that they use to protect their lives and those of their buddies. These incidents usually end with lots of beer and talking about anything other than military service. I have a lot of respect for people who can do what they do, and nothing but disdain for the shitbag liars who try to take advantage. |
Just to reaffirm the message that vets do no talk about combat often.... my grandfather was drafted into the German army at 16 and was sent to the front lines during WWII and was later captured as a POW by american forces in France. I just recently got to hear him talk about it for the first time ever and the stories he told were about life when the war started being a POW and the farmer he worked for after he was released and his journey to the states. He never once mentioned combat. In 22 years of living 5 minutes away from him that is the only time he has every talked about it and it was because the conversation kind of fell into it.
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My uncle was airborne in WWII. 82nd? 101st? Which ever one wasn't Band of Brothers. He jumped into Africa and later Italy. In spite of getting a silver star, and a purple heart, he won't talk about it. Not even when asked.
I have the wool shirt he wore in Italy, complete with shoulder patches. I wear it hunting. I also have his OD cotton shirt, which survived 3 years of combat, but was chewed up one night at hunting camp by mice. |
Heck even my best friend that was in the Army when asked what he did the answer is always "Computer stuff"
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Ryan_G your grandfather was very lucky to fight on the American/English (Western) front. Had he been captured by the Russians it would have been a very different story. I have a long history of family in the military and both my Father and Grandfather early enlisted before the age of 18. My father was 17 and had a special waiver signed by his parents, my grandfather was also 17 and no doubt just lied to get in. Gramps served over in Europe from D-Day to VE-DAY and then went back on to server in Korea. I being a huge history buff could get him to tell a few stories, but never about Korea and never would he brag as mentioned above.
My cousin has been in the Army since 2000 and has gone on 5 deployments over there. He too doesn't tell many stories even though he has a huge mouth and I don't pry. |
Originally Posted by flying_solo
(Post 921366)
Ryan_G your grandfather was very lucky to fight on the American/English (Western) front. Had he been captured by the Russians it would have been a very different story.
BTW, one thing that almost all veterans will have is discharge papers (known as a DD214 since at least the 80s). We make copies of them. We don't lose them. They are important for all kinds of things. Prospective employers will often ask for them to see what kind of discharge you had. If you want a VA loan or VA benefits, you need them. Etc., etc. The DD214 will list your military specialty and also awards. In the awards, campaign medals (indicating that you served within a certain theater of action) will be listed. For example, mine states Southwest Asia Campaign Medal for Desert Shield/Storm. Not saying DD214's can't be falsified, but most of the pretenders are not that sophisticated. And if they say the papers are lost . . . not likely. |
Perspective:
My great Uncle was an engineer for Kelly Johnson in the late50's and early 60's and retired from Lockheed in the late seventies. My Dad asked him once after he retired if he ever did any work on the cool shiz, SR71/U2? The only words he would ever say were "I parked next to some of those guys"... knowing what I know now, he probably shouldn't even have said that much. |
Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 921377)
The fact that he immigrated to the US first chance he got speaks volumes. I would wager (and hope) that his treatment as an American-held POW was relatively humane, especially compared to the treatment he would have received on the Eastern Front.
BTW, one thing that almost all veterans will have is discharge papers (known as a DD214 since at least the 80s). We make copies of them. We don't lose them. They are important for all kinds of things. Prospective employers will often ask for them to see what kind of discharge you had. If you want a VA loan or VA benefits, you need them. Etc., etc. The DD214 will list your military specialty and also awards. In the awards, campaign medals (indicating that you served within a certain theater of action) will be listed. For example, mine states Southwest Asia Campaign Medal for Desert Shield/Storm. Not saying DD214's can't be falsified, but most of the pretenders are not that sophisticated. And if they say the papers are lost . . . not likely. If a claimed vet under questionable circumstances refuses to show his DD214, can anything be assumed? |
If you mean vis-a-vis VA benefits, I'm not sure. VA probably has regulations out the yingyang that cover this. Hopefully, those regs aren't routinely ignored like our border.
Vis-a-vis an employer, if I were interviewing a veteran and they claimed lost papers, I'm either thinking: 1. Irresponsible dumbass; or 2. Other Than Honorable discharge or worse (i.e., a criminal). |
havent been on in while, but damn.
I completely agree with the whole "no one real talks about it" scenario. My grandfather was a P-38 pilot in germany and thats all I know about it, he has pictures of him in front of the aircraft, his squadron and himself in uniform, but he doesnt talk about any of it. The only stories ive heard were OCS and flight school stories, but never anything about actual WW2 missions and action. He gets all serious and scary looking when you ask. He also gets very teary eyed when you bring him around a USAF flightline, or a military aircraft museum, but always says its nothing and he is fine. I am really glad that Sixshooter was able to get the connection to veteran affairs and/or military history department I am all for all fake pan-handling veteran claiming assholes be arrested and charged with its own crime. Because there is nothing in this world that pisses me off more than a fake vet. |
Oh yeah? Well, I don't like to brag, but I was the one that really killed all those Germans. Audie Murphy got all the credit, but I did all the shooting. And I held off 10,000 Chinese at the Chosin Res. single handedly. Later, after I broke the seige at Khe San, I stalked the jungles of Cambodia and shot half a million gooks all with one shot and at over 2000 yards. Oh, and it was me who took out Bin Laden, too. I have 83 purple hearts, and 14 Medals of Honor. All with gold clusters, that are only awarded to the most humble of super soldiers.
But I'm just an E-9 in the Navy Rangers. |
Originally Posted by rleete
(Post 921498)
oh yeah? Well, i don't like to brag, but i was the one that really killed all those germans. Audie murphy got all the credit, but i did all the shooting. And i held off 10,000 chinese at the chosin res. Single handedly. Later, after i broke the seige at khe san, i stalked the jungles of cambodia and shot half a million gooks all with one shot and at over 2000 yards. Oh, and it was me who took out bin laden, too. I have 83 purple hearts, and 14 medals of honor. All with gold clusters, that are only awarded to the most humble of super soldiers.
But i'm just an e-9 in the navy rangers. |
LOL, You get around there rleete.
Lots of cool history in this thread. A few years back while visiting my wife's family in Hong Kong, I saw a photo of a Naval Officer receiving a medal from the mayor of Hong Kong. It turns out that, that was her Grand Father. He was a decorated Chinese Office in the Royal Navy per her uncle. But, nobody could tell me his story. I was very disappointed. Next time we go back I'm going to do my best to learn his history and record it for my kids. |
i am a tactical aerial transporter, many times have I gone beyond the line, jumping from a C17 with 2 HALO jumpers to secure the cargo behind enemy encampment, how else do you think that we get the items secured and airlifted back to base? I have faced the enemy, and killed all those who wanted to keep the cargo for themselves. Then we tactically drop 60k Tunners and 10k AT forklifts with 5 463L pallets, so we can palletize, load onto the tunner (which has been combat converted with 2 forward facing 60mm Grenade launchers, and 6 mounted guns on deck; 2 .50 cals and 4 240s.) and drive it to the awaiting C-5 on the designated temporary landing strip for a commander approved EROs onto the aircraft.
The memories haunt me as the flash of muzzles lighting the night sky and cannons going off in the distance. We lost many airmen that day. |
Airdrop a 60k Tunner?
60mm grenade launchers? Both grenade launchers facing the same direction? On a platform capable of a top speed of 23mph? Suspicion sets in... |
Originally Posted by fooger03
(Post 921530)
Airdrop a 60k Tunner?
60mm grenade launchers? Both grenade launchers facing the same direction? On a platform capable of a top speed of 23mph? Suspicion sets in... FUCK YOU!! FUCK YOUR COUCH! I was the driver and the .50 cal gunner all at the same time!!! I KNOW! THEN when we drove up onto the C-5, I kicked the captain out of the pilot seat because he wasnt effective at getting us out of the hot zone!! I AM A SENIOR MASTER GUNNERY AIRMAN!!! DONT YOU TELL ME |
My father was in Vietnam and has seldom said anything about it my entire life. He has quite a few medals I know are important but when asked for specifics I get the "there are a lot of men who deserved them much more that didn't come back home" kind of response that always stops me from prodding further. Anybody who has earned a medal seems to think the other guys that they were there with and trying to help were more important than the hardware that gets hung on their chest later on.
Anyone who is interested in a real story about a pilot shot down in Vietnam should read "Into the Mouth of the Cat" by Malcolm McConnell. I read it in Jr High for the first time. I've never read anything like it. Cannot recommend it enough. |
I know I'm late, but I'll reiterate what Sam said. No SF guy I know likes to brag about the high-speed stuff they do.
(except maybe PSYOPS.. Some of them are insufferable.) MicaCeli - That's what I've taken to telling people too, "computer stuff". It's a lot easier and tends to end talk on the "what do you do in the Army" subject. |
Originally Posted by kotomile
(Post 944590)
(except maybe PSYOPS.. Some of them are insufferable.)
The fun, stupid stories are way more entertaining to talk about. Never liked playing the who has the bigger dick game. It's too cold for that now. |
On the other end of the "talk about it" spectrum is aviators. There's nothing we love to do more than talk about the shit we get to do in the plane. My best day ever was during the second week of OIF. I'm not going to write the whole thing out lest I end up on some terrorist hit-list, but I'll talk your ear off about it If you ask.
Although this is a bunch of Air Force warthog fags, the HUD video at 1:40 sums it all up no matter what you fly: |
Originally Posted by samnavy
(Post 945026)
On the other end of the "talk about it" spectrum is aviators. There's nothing we love to do more than talk about the shit we get to do in the plane. My best day ever was during the second week of OIF. I'm not going to write the whole thing out lest I end up on some terrorist hit-list, but I'll talk your ear off about it If you ask.
Although this is a bunch of Air Force warthog fags, the HUD video at 1:40 sums it all up no matter what you fly: |
rofl, some of those things said are things no Air Force says. I love pilots, they are the only non asshole officers on the flightline.
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Originally Posted by samnavy
(Post 945026)
Although this is a bunch of Air Force warthog fags, the HUD video at 1:40 sums it all up no matter what you fly:
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hehehehe...
As a current radio op that's flying frequently now... pilots are the bees knees man. People can hate on them all they want, they still buy my alcohol without a 2nd thought. |
Originally Posted by Reverant
(Post 945072)
Vulcan cannon and bitching betty screaming the Altitude warning at 2000ft?!?!?
True story, had a friend shoot himself down while flying the gun pattern too low. |
I guess I'm a chopper guy at heart. Used to flying at <30ft NOE for cover.
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