Miatamaniac92

There's two very close to H2R...

Chris

Savington

iTrader: (31)

"What drove you to enlist? Patriotism? Desire to help your country in a time of need? Wanted to pay for college or learn a new career?"


"....no, I wanted access to the E85 pumps on the base."

webby459

iTrader: (8)

You are saying 13 when read from a wbo2 gauge calibrated for gas, important distinction needing clarification if anyone reads this. More accurate would be to call this .884 lambda, or ~8.6:1 real afr of E85. In my research, .86 lambda is max power lean for E85, .71 for max power rich. So 13 on a gas wb02, .884 lambda is, if you believe what's written out there, a little lean.

I spoke with Emilio a little about E85, and actually wanted to talk to you about it since, because I knew you were using it. Good timing. Copy/pasted from an email I wrote to Emilio at that time regarding fueling:
Injector sizing, from RC Fuel Injection I used the injector worksheet at the bottom of the page. Interestingly, RC doesn't specify what fuel you are calculating for, so I assumed it was gas and made adjustments to the bhp field to account for the difference between e85/gas. 300whp X 1.15 (15% drivetrain loss) X 1.4 (a conservative 40% more req fuel for e85 vs gas) = 483bhp. Other contants: .65 BSFC, 80% duty cycle, 60 psig base fuel, 4 injectors=878 cc/min. BTW, I will probably be using a Bosch 1000cc, highly recommended by my tuner.

From this, bumping up the base fuel pressure to 75, a less conservative 30% more req fuel for e85, driving the duty cycle up a little, may get away with a 750 to make 300 wheel. I already have one set of too small injectors to find new homes for, I don't want that to happen again. Considering the 1000s are reported to idle well, I think this may be a reasonable choice.

Bellwilliam, I'd be very interested in what your base fuel pressure is, and what your injector duty cycles were at the big end of your 232whp dyno run on those 550s. And by the way, is your fuel consumption gross on the track.

Thanks for the input.

ZX-Tex

iTrader: (15)

HA!

ZX-Tex

iTrader: (15)

Good to know. That would work for track days, but not for a daily commuter. The track car is an LS1 so I don't need E85 for that, at least not until I turbocharge it

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Will is seeing around 90% DC from RC550s at 60psi base pressure. That was at 240whp (260whp on Church's dyno).

Will, what were the percentages when the car made 280 on Church's dyno?

If I have to buy injectors again, I'm not stopping at 1000ccs - I'll look for a 1200-1600cc injector. To hell with the idle.

Rennkafer

iTrader: (3)

Race cars don't idle at 750rpm...

JasonC SBB

Yes.

bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

is that a trick question it never made 280 on Church's dyno. it made 260.

bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

60psi FP. it was 90% DC on the dyno. but we've leaned it out since then. it was running a bit rich before, engine was running too cool (if there is such a thing) from E85 and Rotrex. funny thing was I accidentally loaded a gas fuel map, and other than puffed a lots of black smoke from running rich (high 10s), it made almost the same power (5whp lower) as leaner setup. I guess E85 just don't care.
I will test it to see what mpg is this weekend at Buttonwillow. I believe I was getting ~6mpg at AAA Speeway (don't have a working speedometer), a lots of WOT on that track. I am guessing around 7mpg elsewhere.

don't forget on E85, you are running ~1 point leaner.

I am sure you are right about the lambda. I am currently at 12, which is 0.816 lamda. hopefully that would be good. it is strange that 0.71 (10.44) lambda for max power rich, as it was making a ton of smoke at anything in low 11s (0.76) .I also have a lot of timing pulled (~15 at max peak tq). EGT peaked at 900F on the dyno, 1,200F at AAA Speedway.

I just did a dyno pull at Kraftwerks 2 days ago. it is now only 232whp. if I pull the restrictor out, add a bigger injector (750cc ?), it looks like it will go to ~280-290whp on that dyno (before it goes kaboom on my stock block).
KraftWerks Rotrex Race kit prototype on E85 - MX-5 Miata Forum

excuse me if I don't make some technical sense, I am just learning it all.

I am Jack's NA

Wow, this thread is a wealth of information! I'm new to Miata's and this really helps my decision process on to turbo vs not to turbo.

If you are really serious about controlling your fuel delivery, talk to Tony at T1 about Racing Dynamics Bosch Injectors.

Fuel Injectors

You will not find a better performing and matched injector.

The 2200's are pretty huge, but you can run the 1000's at much higher base pressures than you may think. Tony told me that he has run them in 1000+ whp Supra's at 90psi base pressures. Obviously they are running giant fuel pumps, but you get the idea. The ID Bosch injectors love pressure.

Not sure if it was you that was talking about the Walbro 255, but skip it and go straight to a Bosch 044, especially when e85 comes in the mix. The Wally's have questionable resilience to e85 and the Bosch will out flow it and run higher pressures more reliably. It's better in every aspect.

You're peak timing under boost is insane, even with water/meth injection. You really need to dial it down and turn up the boost to compensate. You can make a lot of power safely with more boost and less timing. Timing kills motors much sooner than boost does.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

Tony Palo wouldn't tune my car or even let it on his dyno, lol.

JayL

iTrader: (12)

Please do explain, sounds like a good story.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

Unfortunately its not. I called him up to see if he'd tune it and tried to sell me $8k in Motec and then told me the car would burst into flames, told me I didn't need a steady state dyno, and then told me how great he was at tuning and that I was wasting his time.