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780racer 09-01-2011 08:13 PM

2003 White NB2
 
Alright guys,

My name is Ryan.

I own a white NB2 that i have in "dd/project" mode.

I don't know where my project is going to go exactly, but i know after reading a LOT on this forum that i want a miata with about 225-250 whp. I also want to add that having a up to 300 whp miata would be a lot of fun, although from what i read they can get a little squirrely from time to time, and require a rather fat tire to get any kind of traction, and can cause some not so much fun time with exiting a turn in 3rd and lighting the back tires up. I am not looking for a V8 swap really as i have a buddy who does LS1 swaps (hot rod revolution) and i know the price and its too much for my wallet, but i do want to DD this, and not have huge problems with reliability, although i do realize the more parts/power/boost i make the reliability starts to deteriorate. I want something to carve turns, but also be fun on a strait away, although I realize from the get go that a miata is not a drag car, and i am not looking for that in this project.

So, i also want to go ahead and say that i DO NOT know everything, and if a make a stupid comment, please correct me as i am willing to learn, just need direction.


So now lets continue forward.

I have a few idea's bouncing around in my head, and i also want to get some input from you guys after i explain each scenario and what it takes/means...

I have 3 idea's in my head,

A: i can turbo my miata with a turbo kit and try to make about 225-240 whp (do-able) with my 5 speed (until it brakes) and my stock motor with little add ons, but no internals. I have heard that if i don't beat the crap out of my 5 speed, it should hold with about 225 but not too much more...

B: i could get the FFS supercharger kit, and make "225 whp" and have a nice responsive car.....

C: this is one that i have looked into and have a motor sitting in a friends garage sitting... a Ecotec out of a pontiac solstice GXP. But from what i have been able to dig up with Google, and what not, it does not look like that great of an idea from one stand point and a good idea from another.

The Ecotech is a OK motor, and i can get a hold of the motor for free, and get the rest of the parts for about 4K and installed with my buddy so no real labor.

BUT here is the other edge of the sword about that motor, i would want a manual, and the transmissions used in the saturn sky/GXP was the Colorado transmission out of the trucks, so not the best gearbox i can think of bolting to a miata......

But the motor makes ~250 hp stock and make close to 300 and have a cool different car, but the thing is, I have read its really not worth the swap as that number is achievable in a miata with the 1.8 and a 6 speed.....

I also want to add my real price point on this part of my build is really about 4K. I look to this community because you guys really have the more performance oriented miata's and i feel i can learn a lot on here from what you think about what i want to do with my car.

I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say, and ill get picks up soon!

Quality Control Bot 09-01-2011 08:24 PM

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780racer 09-01-2011 08:36 PM

Let me go ahead before the flaming begins.


I AM NOT looking for a Turbo is better or supercharger is better thread. I also know what a 225 hp car costs and how i have to build it to an extent. What i more have made this post for is how you feel about those two options VS the ecotec swap.......

Plus I'm just stating what i want to do to the car and the options i have available to me.

18psi 09-01-2011 08:54 PM

Turbo the car.
The For Fucks Sake thupercharger kit will not make 225whp unless you throw every bolt on imagineable onto it. It plain sucks. If you been reading on here a LOT like you said you should already know this crap.
The ecotec swap has not been done before and unless you're a fabrication and swap guru that's just a pipe dream.

Seriously.....Turbo it

FRT_Fun 09-01-2011 09:06 PM

Needs turbo.

Also I like how you slipped in the thing about have a "nice responsive car"... Pretty sure a 2554 will give you plenty of "response".

gearhead_318 09-01-2011 09:18 PM

Fast Foreword Stupidchargers are a MT.net "inside joke". Do a search and you'll see why. The Ecotec engine swap is cool and all, but I think it kinda sounds like a huge headache. I'd recommend you go for a kit sold by either Begi (Bell Engineering) or Flyinmiata. You can also pick up a used kit in the "for sale" section.

780racer 09-01-2011 09:46 PM

ok i can look into turbo kits then. Now my next question is with the power point between 225-240 what kit would fit that bill without to much additional work? i know the Flying Miata FMII kit would do that but its also like almost 2K above my price point. What kits do you guys really like?

Also thank you for not flaming me about the FFS kit. I come from the MX5atlanta.com forum, but i figured these questions are better answered on here.

Thank you guys! I will continue to read and learn about what kits are good and go turbo.... since the super charger looks like a lot more work for the power goals i want.


Edit: After looking at the begi kits i think i want to go with the S1 kit and getting the Xede ECU.... Thoughts? i know MSM is used a lot, and i have not used it before, but i see that the Xede also is "recommended" for the 99-04 miatas. and it also comes with 550cc injectors....

buffon01 09-01-2011 10:05 PM

FFF is shit, serious. You want 225whp, how good are you at putting shit together? Cheap way to do is:

Starter kit from FM/Begi (or you can have one of the fab members make you a baller mani)
Cheap used 2560 garret or new chinaturbo from ebay with similar specs
MS/AEM/whatever you want
Injectors
Wideband
Random shit (gauges, etc)
Ebay intercooler and piping

And you should be 90% set (I am forgetting shit ATM)

OR, you could buy a whole kit from either of the previous vendors and save the time piecing shit together.

gearhead_318 09-01-2011 10:13 PM

I'd go with a megasquirt, it seems to be the favorite of most users here and if it wasn't any good ppl here wouldn't want anything to do with it, plus since so many members are familiar with it theres more info on the sight about how to use it and more people to ask if you have a question. You can get a kit to build one at DIYautotune.com, buy an assembled kit from Braineack who is an Administer here or from the for sale section. There are probably other places to get them too.

FRT_Fun 09-01-2011 11:08 PM


Originally Posted by buffon01 (Post 766778)
FFF is shit, serious. You want 225whp, how good are you at putting shit together? Cheap way to do is:

Starter kit from FM/Begi (or you can have one of the fab members make you a baller mani)
Cheap used 2560 garret or new chinaturbo from ebay with similar specs
MS/AEM/whatever you want
Injectors
Wideband
Random shit (gauges, etc)
Ebay intercooler and piping

And you should be 90% set (I am forgetting shit ATM)

OR, you could buy a whole kit from either of the previous vendors and save the time piecing shit together.

Clutch.

780racer 09-01-2011 11:09 PM

well my question about MS is this...... they don't have a PNP kit for the 01-04 miata's assume because of the VVT. So if i wanted to use MS i also have to get the VVT control box as well as the MS PNP kit for a 99-00?

i Dont like wiring..... So a PNP or something close would be proffered.....



Originally Posted by FRT_Fun (Post 766800)
Clutch.

I have a stage 3 F1 racing clutch and lightened flywheel already.... the clutch on my miata was going, and i knew i wanted FI in the future so i bought something that could handle 250 hp or so it claims....

gearhead_318 09-01-2011 11:46 PM

I don't think Braineack builds PNP MS for VVT cars, but I think Reverant does. I'm sure somebody else will know.

thirdgen 09-02-2011 01:05 AM

Follow the mistakes me and many other members have made and save time and money.
In my opinion, to support your goal of 225-250whp, this is what I feel you should do.
1) Install a FM Level 1 clutch $350
2) Get this: http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...%20BLK%20GAUGE
with the GT2560. $2995
3) Get a set of RX7-460 injectors, #195500-2210 for under $100 from someone on here selling them.
4) Get a fuel management that isn't a pain in the cock to set up, and can control your car's VVT.
5) This should easily yield 240whp at under 12psi, and cost under $5,000. Your car should get better fuel mileage than it did stock, and you'll make stock LS1 cars your bitch. The most important part is, you'll have a dependable setup that you can get parts for, and it'll be completely upgradeable when you feel necessary.

You can easily eliminate step #2 to make your wallet not so empty, but that's up to you if you want to find individual/ used/ etc, parts.

buffon01 09-02-2011 01:38 AM


Originally Posted by 780racer (Post 766801)
well my question about MS is this...... they don't have a PNP kit for the 01-04 miata's assume because of the VVT. So if i wanted to use MS i also have to get the VVT control box as well as the MS PNP kit for a 99-00?

i Dont like wiring..... So a PNP or something close would be proffered.....




I have a stage 3 F1 racing clutch and lightened flywheel already.... the clutch on my miata was going, and i knew i wanted FI in the future so i bought something that could handle 250 hp or so it claims....

Your F1 will hold 300whp like a boss. No need for the FM1 clutch.

780racer 09-04-2011 07:38 PM


Originally Posted by buffon01 (Post 766844)
Your F1 will hold 300whp like a boss. No need for the FM1 clutch.

Yay! i knew my Ebay purchase was a good one! haha

so right now im in a legal battle with one of my old project cars that was sold without my consent and im not being given any money funded toward the car, or my aftermarket parts i brought it in the shop with either...... So once i am able to get the money i am owed i will be building my MX5+T and shoot for about 250 WHP. Now one other question, i have to pass emissions since i live in a county that requires it, and its OBD2..... My question is will MS2 work with that? Can i pass OBD2 emissions if i am running MS or how would i go about doing that?

FRT_Fun 09-04-2011 09:57 PM

I'm gonna say if you want to pass emissions you need to run parallel. But others will prolly chime in with your real answer :D

780racer 09-04-2011 10:44 PM


Originally Posted by FRT_Fun (Post 767702)
I'm gonna say if you want to pass emissions you need to run parallel. But others will prolly chime in with your real answer :D

If i run parallel, wouldn't it be the same as a piggy back then? reason i ask is if that's the case, then the MS sounds better than the XEDE kit they have since it is also a piggy back and most likely twice as much as MS2 from Reverant. Thank you guys for the information as i start to piece together what i need for this build of epic and awesome proportions, haha.

Also on a side note, i have herd from a few miata owners that the 5 speed is in fact weaker than the 6 speed. My question is how much power would you recommend to not blow my trans up immediately....... I am going to look now, but feel free to chime in if i cant find it before i find it.

Savington 09-04-2011 10:53 PM

Where are you located?

BTW, the amount of reading you've done shows. Bravo, model noob.

780racer 09-04-2011 10:53 PM

Ok, i solved my own question, from what i have read thus far it looks like 300 whp is about the highest point before it goes boom, although my driving style can also make the trans last longer or shorter. It seems that my 5 speed will be just fine for my build, and i have also read that most people prefer to drive a 5 speed in a miata vs. a 6..... THAT i cannot really say anything about as thats opinion, and i have not driven a 6 speed, but i like the way my 5 speed feels...... Anyways guys thanks for the help!

Edit:

Originally Posted by Savington (Post 767728)
Where are you located?

BTW, the amount of reading you've done shows. Bravo, model noob.

I thought it was in my thread name? 2003 5 speed miata with torsen rear end, sport brakes, sport bilsteins, coil overs, the car has just about 60K on it. Have not done a lot of stupid stuff in it, i beat on it, but try not to beat on it too badly...


Also i live in Atlanta, GA

Edit: also checked the rear end, and it seems it should be suitable for my power levels as well as it looks they can handle almost 325 from what i read on M.net?

780racer 09-05-2011 12:12 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 767728)
Where are you located?

BTW, the amount of reading you've done shows. Bravo, model noob.

Cant tell if that was a compliment or a little bit of flame...... -_-

But i will take it for whatever it is worth..... IF i ask a stupid question, and i solve it i feel that I have redeemed myself to an extent....

Edit: read that i can run parallel and pass emissions.... My REAL question then is this, can i run it standalone until emissions time then swap it to parallel? What amount of work would that take? Thanks again guys!

Savington 09-05-2011 02:35 PM

No flame, genuine compliment. You nailed all the power limits, even the 5-speed's dependency on being nice to it. Either you're making very lucky guesses or you did your homework.

The '03 has the crappy TF diff, which is different from every other 1.8 diff out there. They aren't known to be as reliable as the Torsens so just keep that in mind.

The 6-speed is way, way stronger than the shitty 5-speed. The 5-speed has been around since the late 70s in Mazda and Ford trucks - the 6-speed is a much newer Aisin AZ6 box. The same gearbox (with different bellhousing/tailshaft) came in the JDM IS200 6-speed, as well as the S15 Silvia. The Silvia guys typically start to break the transmissions starting at ~325-350whp, with increased transmission as you start turning the power up.

The 6-speed should hold up to ~350whp reliably in the Miata. The 5-speed will cry uncle at ~250 eventually.

780racer 09-06-2011 03:32 AM


Originally Posted by Savington (Post 767870)
No flame, genuine compliment. You nailed all the power limits, even the 5-speed's dependency on being nice to it. Either you're making very lucky guesses or you did your homework.

The '03 has the crappy TF diff, which is different from every other 1.8 diff out there. They aren't known to be as reliable as the Torsens so just keep that in mind.

The 6-speed is way, way stronger than the shitty 5-speed. The 5-speed has been around since the late 70s in Mazda and Ford trucks - the 6-speed is a much newer Aisin AZ6 box. The same gearbox (with different bellhousing/tailshaft) came in the JDM IS200 6-speed, as well as the S15 Silvia. The Silvia guys typically start to break the transmissions starting at ~325-350whp, with increased transmission as you start turning the power up.

The 6-speed should hold up to ~350whp reliably in the Miata. The 5-speed will cry uncle at ~250 eventually.

I do want to add that the 03 miata's that were 5 speeds came with a torsen, not a TF which iirc is the tifigi Fugili or w/e...... My point is the 6 Speeds in 03 came with the viscus diff where as the 5 speeds came with the same tosen as any of the older models, but had to be a "checked" option.... This is at least what i have found out, I'm not saying it is truth as i only have opinions online to support my statement, but it could make sense. I believe your talking about the Viscus variable fluid diff, but that is from what i have learned THUS far is NOT in mine as it was a original 5 speed, and has the sport brakes but not the 6 speed, has the bose and the silver trim, but not anti lock brakes, nor does it have sport springs, from what i have herd they look like when i swapped my cheap ones im running now in there..... Anyways, I would like to thank you for your genuine compliment as it means a lot..... since most of the people only refer to Miata turbo as the intelligent but flamer group......

Anyways, i really want to thank you guys for the help and please let me know about being able to swap MS2 from parallel to stand alone!

Savington 09-06-2011 02:54 PM

There's no need to swap it from parallel to standalone - if you swap it, just swap the stock ECU back in. The point of parallel would be to not touch it ever - you still retain full control of fuel, spark, etc. but you leave idle, emissions, etc. with the stock ECU.

It's not piggyback where you modify stock signals - it's parallel, where you make your own signals for some stuff and leave some stuff alone.

Reverant 09-06-2011 03:07 PM

It takes 5 minutes to swap ECUs as my Megasquirts are fully plug and play. Injectors, it takes what, 1 hour? I mean, it takes more time to give your car a decent wash and detailing.

780racer 09-06-2011 06:19 PM

I want to thank you both for really helping me piece togeather what exactly i need, and now i know exactly what i need to do to make this beastly build. I cant say enough good things about you guys as you are very helpful, and i cant wait to be able to give input that will better this community. Thanks guys!

Faeflora 09-06-2011 07:04 PM

You are sexy noob.

My only input is to aim for as much power as possible and get a turbo manifold and downpipe on day one that can support all that power. More power is more fun. That's about it.

gearhead_318 09-06-2011 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by Faeflora (Post 768283)
You are sexy noob.

My only input is to aim for as much power as possible and get a turbo manifold and downpipe on day one that can support all that power. More power is more fun. That's about it.

OP, just don't do it like ^this guy^ did/is doing it.

PS @ Faeg
I thought you died in the hurricane. Skip to #49 and go from there. I think you where also mentioned in post #2 as well.

780racer 09-07-2011 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by Faeflora (Post 768283)
You are sexy noob.

My only input is to aim for as much power as possible and get a turbo manifold and downpipe on day one that can support all that power. More power is more fun. That's about it.


I dont know how i feel as i know your a dude, and so am i.... so i mean, ill take my car is sexy, but yeah.....

I will start looking into what the power level limits of the Exhaust mani of the FM II kit that comes with just hardware will go, as i do want to have headroom past 250, just for the sake of it, along with a intercooler that will allow that as well. The Intake mani, i will have to look into as well, maybe gut it, just for now, and later get a expensive one, as it seems no one has a lot of evidence about one intake mani being better than another.

On a side note, has anyone built a DIY intake mani and had good to great success with it? any links or someone i could contact to ask about it? thanks guys!

Sentic 09-08-2011 08:10 AM

Falcon is running an IM that another member on this site made. He runs a rotrex and whatnot, bu in this thread https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...=rotrex&page=2 you can see the difference in torque up top.

Mind that this is a NA though.

780racer 09-14-2011 10:42 AM

Bump with Pic
 
1 Attachment(s)
I said i would get pics up, here is the most recent that i just took....


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316011339

780racer 09-27-2011 06:50 AM

Ok, so as i get closer to parting what all i need togeather i have another question. The turbo size, after looking and thinking hard, i want a little bit of lag so i can still use liberal amount of throttle going into turn but by Apex or so be able to claw out of the turn with boost.... Its kinda how i drive, but what im more asking is, if a 2550 will be similar to a SC, what will have a little more "balls" to it, and have JUST a little lag....if that makes sense....... kinda of hoping someone knows of a good turbo a couple sizes up from the 2550 but isnt like 5K before i get boost... Also i know that this is a lose guess as many things can effect that BUT i still need good idea?


Thanks again for all the help guys!

Faeflora 09-27-2011 09:10 AM

There are only so many options. 2860, 2871 are next sizes up.


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