DNF Racing Team (24h of Lemons) "Cheat to Win" NA Miata
 

Good morning all,

I have been a lurker for some time but have finally decided on becoming a member here.

My name is Chris, and I'm a member of a 24 hours of lemons team called DNF Racing

We are located in northern Connecticut.

Although we have been a team since 2011 we were finally able to finish our second attempt at a car (changed from a subaru to a miata) and raced in the August race "There goes the neighborhood" at NJMP running the usual configuration of Thunderhill raceway (with the chicane).

I think I'll post a build thread at some point soon but I at least wanted to start the ball rolling.

Also I'll note that although of us are mechanically inclined, this is our first mazda platform, so tips, and tricks you have would be helpful.

We will be racing at Loudon in October for Halloween Hooptiefest.

and some pictures to hold you over until the build thread.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1411395885dnf profile by CTSparky1, on Flickr

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141139588510314637_10100123091989886_7561577380401277225_n by CTSparky1, on Flickr
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141139588524Hours92-4 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

Welcome. I really want to get into chump or lemons racing. What's your experience with it so far. Any advice when starting to form a team and get started?

make it FWD

getting into Lemons/Chump
 

Caveat: Understand that we have 1 race under our belt.

The questions you want to ask yourself are:
Do I really like racing (karting, Auto x, etc)
Do I have money to spare? If no then you'll have to rob a bank... just focus on the community ones since they have less security..
Do I want to turn a large fortune into a little one? then yes.... racing is for you.

But seriously;
Lemons/ Chump are probably some of the cheapest forms of wheel to wheel racing that is available. But that cost isn't cheap, so you need to be prepared to spend time and money in order to race.

The first thing you should do is what is called an "Arrive and Drive". This is where you spend a nominal fee (usually around $400 to $600) for a share of seat time on an already established team, usually racing one of their hoopties around the track.

Often these aren't the super fast, or super cool cars, but you are out on the track, mixing it in with traffic, and absolutely having a blast.

When you are doing this you will get to see firsthand how a successful team operates, and what it takes to race in this environment.

And for this first race you can rent equipment... You will need personal safety equipment:

• SA 2005 or above Helmet (not a motorcycle helmet)
• SFI Fire suit, a single layer with under layers, or a multilayer suit
• SFI gloves
• SFI shoes
• Nomex or better socks
• SFI neck protection or Hans or similar

Then if you have done a race, and want to form your own team that is great. But do understand that most cars are going to cost $5000 or so to get into "Basic" race trim, and it will be at least 100 man hours worth of labor to do so.

Those costs don't include race costs, or registration costs as well.

Ya, based off what I've read its pretty consistent with your input. What do you recommend for team size driver wise? I guess that would probably depend on the length of the race you plan on entering. It seems like once you get a built car the fees for each race and consumables aren't too bad.

I was hoping to get four people and get a car built for about $1.5k investment per team member to get a running car. Hopefully I can find a caged spec Miata shell or something else already caged since that will probably be the biggest cost.

Thanks for the info and good luck with the races.

additional info
 

Well let me address a few issues....
We had one driver quit, because he couldn't fit inside the cage (A miatacage spec cage) and we have the 20 degree seat reclined back an additional 10-20 degrees.... I'd recommend a driver be no longer than 5' 11". We also had to extend the steering column with hexagonal bar stock.

The cost of miata's that are already to a spec state are not cheap. Also a miatacage spec cage is not enough for the safety rules of lemons. Now miatacage did give us additional stock to reinforce the cage but lemons is VERY SPECIFIC when it comes to safety.

personally I'd recommend geting an already prepped car: Road Racing Cars, 24 Hours of LeMons: Cars for Sale for sale on RacingJunk Classifieds - 21 available take note that the owners will sell the car for $500 and the safety eqipment inside the car for the remainder of their asking price.

and having a go from there. Now a miata is a great car for racing, but you will be put into class A, hence racing with the big boys.. from your first time out. and if you do go with a miata make sure you have a good theme..
LeMons New Jersey Inspections: Jurassic Park Ford, Smokey and the Bandit BMW, Game of Thrones Acura | Car and Driver Blog

We made C&D.

Your budget sounds good for prepping the car.. How are you going to transport it? Most lemons races are around 16 hours of racing.

We planned on 80 gallons of 93 octane gas
tires will last a season BFG Rivals 205/50/15
brakes and rotors will last a season HPS Blues
Oil changes after every day approx $50 per oil change (Amsoil heavy duty to keep the engine from blowing up) yes I know we are losing hp that way
Rear diff oil change every event $15 Amsoil...
Brake bleed after every event
replace water in radiator every event $$Free$$


etc...

FRONT RUNNING MIATA for Sale in LIBERTY HILL, TX | RacingJunk Classifieds


do it!

As much as buying a already built car would be make more financial sense, I don't think I ever would. To me building a car is just as fun as racing it and if something goes wrong you are the only person to blame and you get to learn from the failure.

But maybe getting a team together and buying a built car for the first race or two to get some experience, then building our own car later would make sense.

watch out on the spac miata cages. I raced Lemons with GRM @ barber. They had a miata cage..cage.. Lemons had just put a new rule out that stated the cage needs to be 2" taller than the driver. everyone knows a spec miata cage runs right past your head. they almost didn't let us race, but gave us a slide because the rule was new. If we brought that car back today it would not pass.

Yes we are aware of this rule. many a sleepless night actually, and it wound up that one of our drivers and friends had to quit the team because of this.

We solved it by mounting the seat to the floor and angling the seat back so that we gained the amount needed to secure the 2 inches.

Our seat is really laid back.

you can see in this picture how far back the seat is positioned: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141141637720140724_115414 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

also we brought up the middle bar to raise up the clearance.

The rule specifically states that you need 2 inches from the top of the bar to the top of the helmet and we achieved it barely.

Chris.

Figured I'd share this also... part of our theme...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141141652505-UG-NJMP_Fall_14 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

CTSparky, congrats on signing up at the best site on the web!

that sucks!! that rule hurt a lot of teams that were currently running. on the flip side it is a good rule to have. word or warning to people building cars, take it to a cage builder, with your seat and tallest driver.

As someone that bought and started to build a chump car, I cannot wait to read more about this whole process.

Did you have any racing experience before this?

replies
 

OG,
AS I'm sure YOU know, but to others in the process you need to select and purchase your seat first, and then fab up the roll cage. We bought our cage from Miatacage.com, and we happen to have as friends two people that helped us immensely.

First is Rokkit: NASA multile race winner, and great driver. If you are in the northeast you know him as Mike. He used to race a subaru rs (and yes some of us have subaru's) and now races a E36M3. Here is his youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdm...X5d2YhWsHEmf5A

Another great friend is Miata Mike He is a welder, and fabricator. He has worked as a technician in performance automobile shops, and welded a spec miata cage for EFILogics, a subaru based tuning and performance shop in the Northeast.
we honored both of them by putting their names on the car:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141156655220140724_123701 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

Both of them helped us put in the cage. We paid in beer, food, and in support on New Years eve..... you know who you are.


Our group had minimal experience driving before this. Our captain was in a Formula SAE, and one of our drivers has done some driving schools.

I, myself do karting when I can, have done a very little drag racing, but in my defense I'm a student of race driving. Also with the help of other racers we talk about the race line, and driving in traffic.

Here is a time lapse of starting the roll cage.

Some early pictures
 

here are some early pictures when we got the car:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=14117617291913491_955051796806_569391883_o by CTSparky1, on Flickr
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=14117617291421021_927122247846_129581741_o by CTSparky1, on Flickr

We ultimately decided on having the shorter ram setup.

The super cold air intake. nice.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1411763901

Welcome to the forums, we race a 94 in ChumpCar! When and where is your next event?

Our next event is at NHMS at Loudon New Hampshire.
It is October 25th and 26th.

We will have the same livery but with the addition of these:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141247445820140918_145705 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

work from yesterday
 

So yesterday we worked on the car.

What we are doing between our last race, and the one coming up in two weeks are:

• Flush radiator (water)
• Change Rear diff gear oil
• remove key mechanism and install ignition switch and starter button
• Move the fuel pump wiring to the center of the car
• add cigarette lighter outlets and power to the rear main tube for GoPro and Radio
• Purchase and install a radio communications system
• Replace and install Bilstein suspension
• Slot lower control arms to get more camber adjustment
• add aerodynamics (Front Splitter, undertray, rear spoiler)

There may be things I'm missing as well. :vash2:

So we are halfway through the list.

and here is a short time lapse of what we did yesterday.

Nice to see your progress! If I may offer a couple of tips that we have learned :2cents:

Add a splash of coolant to the water for corrosion resistance. Also water wetter if you have it.

Curious for my own knowledge, why are you moving the fuel pump wiring?

Instead of cigarette lighter outlets, you can also add in "gps power" adapters that hardline into your 12v system. We run a camera and a GPS booster off these that way you can tie them into an external fuse block setup.

I would consider offset bushings in the control arms so that replacements can be had easier.

I've also got some recommendations for a great cheap radio setup as well. PM me if you're interested

replies..
 

We aren't allowed to run anything other than water in the radiator system... Lemons rules.. We may splash a bit of water wetter, but we are content to just flush after every event.

For our communications we are using chinese radios, and they come with a battery eliminator that plugs into a cigarette lighter. For the gopro we are also using a common usb cigarette lighter adapter to provide power to it.

Both of these are tied to a fuse block that we put into the car last race. The following things are powered from that block: our gauges, and the radio and gopro.

For offset bushings: We may use that in the future but it was cheaper ($free$) to just take an air hammer and slot the arms. there is no limitation for what we can do there in terms of rules, so if we wanted to get 5 degrees of camber we could. (not that we want to) For our first race we had the stock suspension maxed out at just over 1 degree of camber. Now we will have more.

We do seem to have an "issue" tho. Our bilsteins were meant for a NB. We did put the NB tophats on, but when we set down the car we are very high in terms of wheel gap. As much as 4". while the spring rate should still be good, do you advise cutting the springs to get a lower CoG?

You're not allowed, but it's helpful to run a bit of coolant, just a splash in equivalent to what you would have leftover from a drain and refill with water. Helps you detect leaks from the distinct smell too.

On the wiring we found the cigarette lighter connection with the usb adapter to have robustness issues, this is similar to what we moved to
Chinese radios paired with a nice PTT car setup like from NerdieRacing.com (Talk to Troy and tell him I sent you) works great.

Yes the stock NB springs will hike up the NA ride height a bit. I would definitely cut them to get the car down to 12-13" range and make it a bit stiffer as well. You can also remove the lower rubber noise isolator in the NB top hat giving you more shock travel and helping you get towards 12". Here is a now famous article on trimming springs and the resulting change in spring rate FrankenMiata - Handling with a Hacksaw > MotoIQ - Automotive Tech, Project Cars, Performance & Motorsports

Funny enough but where did you think I got my radio equipment from... Troy. and boy can he talk your ear off.

I'll pass along the information about the springs to the rest of the team members.

Thanks!

Chris.

Why couldn't I find people like you when I lived back in New England?! Good luck with the car and your upcoming races!

Where are you at now? There are crazies like us all over!

barbie,

If you are serious... then follow the link.. register and start asking away.

Drivers/Wrenches Looking for Teams (Page 1)

Halloween Hooptiefest 2014
 

A couple of weeks later, but my report:

DNF Racing NHMS Oct 2014 24 hours of Lemons "Halloween Hooptiefest"

So a couple of weeks ago me and the rest of the team headed up to Loudon NH for the lemons race.

We were going to be doing testing on Friday and then racing on Sat/Sunday.

Thursday it rained and was cold so we arrived in the cold and dark and had to unload the car:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3943/...56c68ef8_h.jpg20141023_122040 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

Then on Friday we got to try ot the new all season tires for the rain. Well they weren't much better than our dry tires (BFG Rivals) and since we didn't do a full bolt check on Friday this happened during my stint:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3955/...7104efd5_h.jpg20141024_111558 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3952/...886f160e_h.jpg20141024_111606 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3952/...54532042_h.jpg20141024_112142 by CTSparky1, on Flickr


The rear caliper bolt loosened causing the caliper to slide forward and rub the wheel eventually puncturing the inner barrel.

We changed out the wheels/tires; ordered a new wheel to be brought up by a friend and checked the rest of the drivetrain.. the caliper was still good so we went out on the dry tires.. and the course dried and warmed up allowing us to complete some good test laps.

Saturday dawned and we were ready to race. For this race we had in car communications and although it wasn't perfect it did help several times... While we were getting ready for the race we had the old tire mounted on a new wheel.

Then during the race we had another event: While I was driving all of a sudden my windshield was covered in water...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1415046012radiator blow by CTSparky1, on Flickr

I drove the car into the pits after ANOTHER lap, and we went to work putting in a another old radiator from a Miata... that was just lying around waiting to be bought by a lemons team trying to run one. $500 later and we bought the radiator complete with another car.

Then we were back out in 18 minutes.... and ran the rest of Saturday mostly penalty free.

Sunday came and we started really driving the car... Some would say driving too hard, and we kept accruing penalties... that caused us to do silly things like carve a pumpkin with our car symbol on it:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141504601220141026_153030 by CTSparky1, on Flickr
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=141504601220141026_135137 by CTSparky1, on Flickr


And we finally wound up finishing the race with the car in THIS condition:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5604/...4c59f0c9_h.jpg20141026_163519 by CTSparky1, on Flickr
So thoughts on the race:

Loudon is a nice course... it takes a bit to get used to it but it was fun, and once you get the hang of it you are constantly doing something in the car.

Going up the hill on turn 3 we need a limited slip differential. We kept loosing traction and having our car slide a bit.

The new aero mods were fine, and the car stayed balanced.. at least up to 95 mph. more testing will need to be done with higher speeds at the next event.

The new to us suspension is still soft, but not too soft and we like the compliance with the car. The bilsteins are not blown.

We need a front sway bar and possibly endlinks to stiffen up the front and correct a bit of understeer in turning on acceleration. Either that our we bump up hot tire pressure by a few pounds up to 34psi.

We need to quell getting penalties, and work on being ready unexpectedly in case the course goes full yellow to do pit stops faster.

We will invest in true high flow fuel canisters.

Sparky.

So it has been a while
 

So it has been a while since I posted last in here, and at the end of this post I have some questions for the group mind.

First from the October Race this is where the radiator blew. Thank goodness we run heavyweight oil 20w-50 in there since when I took the car in all we had to do was replace the radiator and go.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1424100730radiator blow by CTSparky1, on Flickr

and now to the off season. As part of getting a new radiator we bought a whole parts car for $500. It just so happened that a fellow racer brought along his rolled miata to sell to some lemons team, and well he parked it right next to us.

So we took the car and afterwards brought it back to the garage to take all the spare stuff we could use on it.

a month and a half ago we stripped the car, and cut the shell. This isn't our first shell cutting, and as usual it was fun.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=142410073020150106_184433 by CTSparky1, on Flickr
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=142410073020150106_185048 by CTSparky1, on Flickr
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=142410073020150106_190918 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

Then we started doing work on the car again this weekend to make some repairs:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=142410073020150125_125806 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

and also put in some parts that we happened to find on the spare car. of course we needed to "Fix" the frame rails.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=142410073020150215_122047 by CTSparky1, on Flickr
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=142410073020150215_122108 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

and now we are on a quest to get new bushings put in. So I need your help.

For a race car, what sort of plastic/ poly are you guys using? Do you know where to get stuff cheap? We have the dimensions to make the bushings, but need the material. Do you guys have any good links on the How to's to get and shape the material?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=142410073020150215_143218 by CTSparky1, on Flickr

Thanks guys...

Sparky

Lemons looks like so much fun. Thanks for documenting this adventure.

Good luck this weekend! I am planning to stop by and chat with you guys since building a 91 for 2016 Lemons season :)

updates
 

so there have been some things going on with the car since my last time that I visited this site.

First: The rest of the winter in preparation for the May race;

Since you saw us cut up the spare car for parts we spent the majority of our time in the winter to prep the car for the next season. The overall thought was that we would do all of the work over the winter and leave the car as is during the season with the only replacements being expendable parts. Then after this racing season we were to look at what improvements we needed to make to the car.

So the improvements for the May race were:

• rebuild the engine
• Put in cams for said engine OBX cams
• Tune said engine
• Big ass front sway bar and mounts

and we did just that in prep for the may race. In our tuning session we eeked out 122whp /120 wtq on a Mustang Dyno (EFI Logics) using resistors and other old school fangled contraptions.

Then the team packed up the car and headed to Jersey for the race. I Couldn't go since it was mothers day weekend, I have a new baby, it was my wife's first Mothers day, and the child wound up getting sick and we were in the ED all weekend.

So what happened to the team? Excessive oil consumption lead to blowing the engine. that ended day 1 and day two was stopped when lift off oversteer put the car into the tire barriers on the back end of Thunderbolt.

During the race the front end got crumpled and the lack of aero caused the car to understeer through the corners.

They brought back the car home battered and we had to go to work to fix it for the following race (August)

Cause of the engine death:
When we broke down the engine we noticed a few things. Some of the rod bearings were totally crushed, a nut in the throttle body backed out and spent time in Cylinder one, then cylinder 4 before exiting the exhaust; this bent the #4 sparkplug so that there was no gap, and inefficient cylinder scuffing and lack of rings seating caused myriad issues.

So a new list was made for August:

• Fix the body work
• Rebuild the engine again
• Cut the top of the doors so we don't need to open them
• Cut the lower part of the quarter panels to let airflow behind the wheels
• vent the top of the fenders
• replace the rear brake light with a LED light
• added wink mirror
• formed new roof without the side walls

So aside from maintenance, we started working on rebuilding the engine again. In the process we ordered all of the wrong bearings, and rings, and had to buy multiple sets, and finally got the engine in the car the day before we had to leave.
Also last minute we added in a cool suit cooler and shirts to keep us away from the red mist.

Here is a picture of the car in August racing at Thompson:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1439656461Pic-6360 by BPOS.P, on Flickr

Post race: We wound up in 15th place overall and 11th in class A (We had no lap penalties)

Also during the race we lost 3rd and at the end 4th gear so we have to replace the transmission for the next race.
The car did run well but we did consume oil, and we think this is due to not having a catch can/ aos setup. Thompson is a very difficult course with lots of compromise corners and little relaxation, and other teams were having oil consumption as well.

Finally we did hit some debris which caused the loss of the splitter, but not the air dam, front, and the car still behaved well. So our splitter doesn't do much, but as long as we have the front air dam we still have front traction.

So now we embark on prepping the car for the next race:
Our regular maintenance is to replace/ repack hubs
Change motor oil and filter
Change transmission fluid (Full flush after a season)
Bleed brakes/ add fluid Every race) flush after a season

and now change transmission.
Our cold compression is around 130# and although low seems even throughout the cylinders.
and finally make an air oil separator on the cheap and make it work well.

How confident you are that your aero is helping you? I believe there is an opinion that aero does not work at Lemons speeds. There is also an opinion that with aero you can reduce brake ventilation and ruin your brakes?

time for a turbo to get into top 5? :)