from CT with a miata powered project
03-12-2015, 12:47 PM
#1
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from CT with a miata powered project
I want to introduce myself I am a long time car builder but have never played with turbos, except for a stock 93 rx7, and this build is going to be my introduction to turbos. Also my first time really doing too much to a 4 cylinder always been a V8 powered guy. I just did not seem right to do that to the sunbeam though.
I have owned a 2001 stock DD and co-owned a 1994 track day car. I enjoyed both of those cars and thought the motor and Trans would be a good fit for my next project, a 1964 sunbeam alpine. Having fallowed the rules for racing I always was envious of the guys that did not have to and made a lot more power.
This is how things stand right now, I have a 1999 stock California motor that has 80k miles on it compression is good and is real clean. No a/c or PS. Thinking about keeping all internals stock. (Outside of the exhaust and ecu is the cal Miata any different?)
And its matching 5-speed
I have gone thru a lot of builds and think I have a general Idea of what to do.
With the FI is it worth taking off the head to do any port work? I have done quite a few set of heads mostly LS motors where there is a lot more material that needs to be taken out. The Miata heads look like more of just a cleanup then real port work.
Does not seem like I will need aftermarket rod for my goals but are arp a good idea?
I know the motor has 9.5 compression ratio, would it be worth it to deshroud the valves for better flow and lower compression? Or to go bigger valves?
The sunbeam is smaller than a Miata and was looking at doing just water injection no IC (I know you leave you self open to failure but I just don’t see any room for a IC.
The sunbeam has been sand blasted and is in primer waiting for the engine bay modifications to start.
My power goals are 200hp, and very street able/quick spool up.
T25 sr20 looks to simple and cheep for my goal. It has a integrated waste gate. I am Still open to suggestions. I am going to try to keep it somewhat affordable.
Mega squirt seems to be the preferred engine management on the forum and open to learning a different tuning program (I have hptunner for LS motors and have done 5 motors).
Looks like the rx7 injectors.
Thinking on keeping stock coils colder plugs.
And custom turbo back exhaust.
I will take all suggestions thanks for reading threw my first long post. And thanks for your help.
I have owned a 2001 stock DD and co-owned a 1994 track day car. I enjoyed both of those cars and thought the motor and Trans would be a good fit for my next project, a 1964 sunbeam alpine. Having fallowed the rules for racing I always was envious of the guys that did not have to and made a lot more power.
This is how things stand right now, I have a 1999 stock California motor that has 80k miles on it compression is good and is real clean. No a/c or PS. Thinking about keeping all internals stock. (Outside of the exhaust and ecu is the cal Miata any different?)
And its matching 5-speed
I have gone thru a lot of builds and think I have a general Idea of what to do.
With the FI is it worth taking off the head to do any port work? I have done quite a few set of heads mostly LS motors where there is a lot more material that needs to be taken out. The Miata heads look like more of just a cleanup then real port work.
Does not seem like I will need aftermarket rod for my goals but are arp a good idea?
I know the motor has 9.5 compression ratio, would it be worth it to deshroud the valves for better flow and lower compression? Or to go bigger valves?
The sunbeam is smaller than a Miata and was looking at doing just water injection no IC (I know you leave you self open to failure but I just don’t see any room for a IC.
The sunbeam has been sand blasted and is in primer waiting for the engine bay modifications to start.
My power goals are 200hp, and very street able/quick spool up.
T25 sr20 looks to simple and cheep for my goal. It has a integrated waste gate. I am Still open to suggestions. I am going to try to keep it somewhat affordable.
Mega squirt seems to be the preferred engine management on the forum and open to learning a different tuning program (I have hptunner for LS motors and have done 5 motors).
Looks like the rx7 injectors.
Thinking on keeping stock coils colder plugs.
And custom turbo back exhaust.
I will take all suggestions thanks for reading threw my first long post. And thanks for your help.
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03-12-2015, 01:17 PM
#3
I want to introduce myself I am a long time car builder but have never played with turbos, except for a stock 93 rx7, and this build is going to be my introduction to turbos. Also my first time really doing too much to a 4 cylinder always been a V8 powered guy. I just did not seem right to do that to the sunbeam though.
Welcome!
I have owned a 2001 stock DD and co-owned a 1994 track day car. I enjoyed both of those cars and thought the motor and Trans would be a good fit for my next project, a 1964 sunbeam alpine. Having fallowed the rules for racing I always was envious of the guys that did not have to and made a lot more power. This is how things stand right now, I have a 1999 stock California motor that has 80k miles on it compression is good and is real clean. No a/c or PS. Thinking about keeping all internals stock. (Outside of the exhaust and ecu is the cal Miata any different?) And its matching 5-speed
Don't think its any different
Cali fuel is the only thing that comes to mind.
I have gone thru a lot of builds and think I have a general Idea of what to do.
With the FI is it worth taking off the head to do any port work? I have done quite a few set of heads mostly LS motors where there is a lot more material that needs to be taken out. The Miata heads look like more of just a cleanup then real port work.
Does not seem like I will need aftermarket rod for my goals but are arp a good idea?
Not much material to really remove, but smoothing it all out has some slight gains. Increasing the valve size +1 intake or +1 or 2 Exhaust helps a lot with turbo builds. Honestly I'd have the head intake/exhaust smoothed out, and focus more on the valve sealing over flow. If you go with upgraded valves (+1/+2) this would still be my go to thing to have the valves seat properly. Not 'tooo' much more flow can be had but slight improvements are noticeable.
Do get ARP EVERYTHING
I know the motor has 9.5 compression ratio, would it be worth it to deshroud the valves for better flow and lower compression? Or to go bigger valves?
The sunbeam is smaller than a Miata and was looking at doing just water injection no IC (I know you leave you self open to failure but I just don’t see any room for a IC.
See above ^^ for valves. Do not worry about flow for valves, just seal. Bigger is better etc.
Stock pistons w/ 9.5 CR, Not sure what a 'safe' boost psi would be honestly. But connecting rods should be on your list, (maybe pistons if you go down to 9.0 CR, plus they'd be stronger than cast)
You will NEEED an IC. Try looking for a used mazdaspeed miata one to start. They're tiny, may just work for T25 & your setup if you can find a spot.
The sunbeam has been sand blasted and is in primer waiting for the engine bay modifications to start.
My power goals are 200hp, and very street able/quick spool up.
T25 sr20 looks to simple and cheep for my goal. It has a integrated waste gate. I am Still open to suggestions. I am going to try to keep it somewhat affordable.
Try to find a BEGi or FM cast manifold & downpipe for the T25 turbo. ARP exhaust studs, TSE inconel kit -- Rock solid hot side
Mega squirt seems to be the preferred engine management on the forum and open to learning a different tuning program (I have hptunner for LS motors and have done 5 motors).
You will do fine with the megasquirt if you have previous tuning ability. These forums have a great support section
Looks like the rx7 injectors.
No, Find at least rx8, Injector Dynamics 725/1000s, GT500 Injectors (Buy some NOW 1 set Left
)
Thinking on keeping stock coils colder plugs.
I may be mistaken but I hear the NB1 coils are actually pretty weak. Upgrading to NB2 should be ok for low boost 8-12psi. Look around here for cold plug suggestions
And custom turbo back exhaust.
I will take all suggestions thanks for reading threw my first long post. And thanks for your help.
Welcome!
I have owned a 2001 stock DD and co-owned a 1994 track day car. I enjoyed both of those cars and thought the motor and Trans would be a good fit for my next project, a 1964 sunbeam alpine. Having fallowed the rules for racing I always was envious of the guys that did not have to and made a lot more power. This is how things stand right now, I have a 1999 stock California motor that has 80k miles on it compression is good and is real clean. No a/c or PS. Thinking about keeping all internals stock. (Outside of the exhaust and ecu is the cal Miata any different?) And its matching 5-speed
Don't think its any different
Cali fuel is the only thing that comes to mind.I have gone thru a lot of builds and think I have a general Idea of what to do.
With the FI is it worth taking off the head to do any port work? I have done quite a few set of heads mostly LS motors where there is a lot more material that needs to be taken out. The Miata heads look like more of just a cleanup then real port work.
Does not seem like I will need aftermarket rod for my goals but are arp a good idea?
Not much material to really remove, but smoothing it all out has some slight gains. Increasing the valve size +1 intake or +1 or 2 Exhaust helps a lot with turbo builds. Honestly I'd have the head intake/exhaust smoothed out, and focus more on the valve sealing over flow. If you go with upgraded valves (+1/+2) this would still be my go to thing to have the valves seat properly. Not 'tooo' much more flow can be had but slight improvements are noticeable.
Do get ARP EVERYTHING
I know the motor has 9.5 compression ratio, would it be worth it to deshroud the valves for better flow and lower compression? Or to go bigger valves?
The sunbeam is smaller than a Miata and was looking at doing just water injection no IC (I know you leave you self open to failure but I just don’t see any room for a IC.
See above ^^ for valves. Do not worry about flow for valves, just seal. Bigger is better etc.
Stock pistons w/ 9.5 CR, Not sure what a 'safe' boost psi would be honestly. But connecting rods should be on your list, (maybe pistons if you go down to 9.0 CR, plus they'd be stronger than cast)
You will NEEED an IC. Try looking for a used mazdaspeed miata one to start. They're tiny, may just work for T25 & your setup if you can find a spot.
The sunbeam has been sand blasted and is in primer waiting for the engine bay modifications to start.
My power goals are 200hp, and very street able/quick spool up.
T25 sr20 looks to simple and cheep for my goal. It has a integrated waste gate. I am Still open to suggestions. I am going to try to keep it somewhat affordable.
Try to find a BEGi or FM cast manifold & downpipe for the T25 turbo. ARP exhaust studs, TSE inconel kit -- Rock solid hot side
Mega squirt seems to be the preferred engine management on the forum and open to learning a different tuning program (I have hptunner for LS motors and have done 5 motors).
You will do fine with the megasquirt if you have previous tuning ability. These forums have a great support section
Looks like the rx7 injectors.
No, Find at least rx8, Injector Dynamics 725/1000s, GT500 Injectors (Buy some NOW 1 set Left
)Thinking on keeping stock coils colder plugs.
I may be mistaken but I hear the NB1 coils are actually pretty weak. Upgrading to NB2 should be ok for low boost 8-12psi. Look around here for cold plug suggestions
And custom turbo back exhaust.
I will take all suggestions thanks for reading threw my first long post. And thanks for your help.
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03-12-2015, 08:52 PM
#4
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^Pretty good advice. What are your power goals though? With that turbo, your stock internals are probably going to be safe, assuming you have a good tune of course.
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...o-miata-81626/
Edit: I somehow missed that you said 200HP. Stock internals should be totally fine.
You might even be able to get by without an intercooler as long as you don't go over about 6psi. I don't think you'll reach 200 though.
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...o-miata-81626/
Edit: I somehow missed that you said 200HP. Stock internals should be totally fine.
You might even be able to get by without an intercooler as long as you don't go over about 6psi. I don't think you'll reach 200 though.
Last edited by Monk; 03-12-2015 at 09:38 PM.
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03-13-2015, 08:50 AM
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Thank you guy for the welcome I am sure I will have a ton more questions as time goes on. I hear you about the IC and I know life will be better with one but we will just have to see what can fit and what can't. Happy to hear about the rods. I will pop the oil pan off this week end and see what the honing and bearings tell us. If the motor is coming apart then this build may change quite a bit but I am hopping that every thing will stay together.
Monk sounds like a very similar build thanks for posting wish their was a bit more how to in it.
Why dose every one say to go with the cast iron exhaust manifold for my build? Are they just tried and true and an easy answer? My concern will always be space that is why I ask.
Monk sounds like a very similar build thanks for posting wish their was a bit more how to in it.
Why dose every one say to go with the cast iron exhaust manifold for my build? Are they just tried and true and an easy answer? My concern will always be space that is why I ask.
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03-13-2015, 10:40 AM
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Monk sounds like a very similar build thanks for posting wish their was a bit more how to in it.
Why dose every one say to go with the cast iron exhaust manifold for my build? Are they just tried and true and an easy answer? My concern will always be space that is why I ask.
Why dose every one say to go with the cast iron exhaust manifold for my build? Are they just tried and true and an easy answer? My concern will always be space that is why I ask.
It might make more sense for you to get a no electronics kit minus a few things like the lower downpipe section, as you'll likely have to fab something up anyway.
Also, you can subtract the turbo if you already have one from an SR20det. It's basically a journal bearing 2560 iirc. That will save you a good chunk alone. Call them up to piece together a custom kit.
Here's a thorough how-to: http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/in...all_turbos.pdf
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03-13-2015, 11:47 AM
#10
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I do not have a turbo yet just alot of people seem to use them and be happy for the 200 mark.
I have read their instruction and once you get to usable parts for me you have the cast exhaust and oil lines that is it. All the duct work and ic and possibly even the cast iron exhaust I am afraid of the cast iron because I cant cut it up and make it fit. with a tube/ log I can move the turbo to where I need it. I know I am going to have to do a lot of cutting into the sunbeam ant fabbing up my own stuff.
is their a good source for flanges hear or a company people like to use?
thanks for the help.
I have read their instruction and once you get to usable parts for me you have the cast exhaust and oil lines that is it. All the duct work and ic and possibly even the cast iron exhaust I am afraid of the cast iron because I cant cut it up and make it fit. with a tube/ log I can move the turbo to where I need it. I know I am going to have to do a lot of cutting into the sunbeam ant fabbing up my own stuff.
is their a good source for flanges hear or a company people like to use?
thanks for the help.
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03-14-2015, 01:50 AM
#11
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Started to clean up the motor. a little porting and polishing the intake, and bull nose the butter fly on the variable runners. Hope that will help with some throttle response, top end looks clean and the oil was not black looks like a good start.
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03-14-2015, 09:09 AM
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Welcome.
Looking good so far. You should start a build thread, put your location in your info and post pics of the project in the back ground too.
Some good pics of the engine bay of the Alpine might get some feed back on the manifold choice.
What are your thoughts on the rearend?
Looking good so far. You should start a build thread, put your location in your info and post pics of the project in the back ground too.
Some good pics of the engine bay of the Alpine might get some feed back on the manifold choice.
What are your thoughts on the rearend?
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03-14-2015, 01:25 PM
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Thanks I will start a build thread this just this kinda turned into the beginning of on quickly a lot of people trying to help. I will take some time to organize some pics and try to make the build thread as clean as I can. as far as a rear end I do want to do a miata/rx7 IRS but cant see myself cutting up the tub on the sunbeam to do that. The live axle is good to about 300 torque but is an open rear end,has 3.89 gears and is on old leaf springs. I am looking at doing a shorten ford 8 inch so I can get disks in the back 4.11 gears and posi. Also do a 3 or 4 link.
Last edited by DemkoG; 03-14-2015 at 01:38 PM.
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