Noob here just saying hi
 

Hey just stopping to say hi. I'll be lurking over everyone's post for the next little while. My profile states I own a 2005 MSM, but that is only because that's the one I want to have. :-) Sadly I do not yet own a Miata, but am currently in the market. I have been a long time Miata fan, but never had the opportunity to drive one until last week. (NA, all stock, it was in pretty rough shape) It was at that point that I discovered how much fun these things are to drive.

Anyway, I'm 35, with four kids, a minivan, and a motorcycle. I'm currently trying to sell the bike, to help pay for the Miata. I have an old Ford Escort as a winter beater as well. My previous car was an '01 Mustang GT. How on earth can I buy a Miata with 4 kids you ask? Well, the purpose of my car is really just to commute to work and back, and I rarely have to carry any other people in it. That's what the minivan is for. If I ever do have to carry a few more people, I can always take the Escort if needed. Plus, the Miata holds double the amount of people my motorcycle does! And a trunk to boot! :-D

I'm shopping for an NB, as those are mostly what are in my price range (sub $10k), and I think they're the best looking. I'm still researching, and am battling between buying a regular one for under $4k and then buying a FM turbo kit to put in it, or just buying an MSM. The MSM would be more wife friendly, as I don't think she'd take too kindly to me spending $3500-$4000 on go fast bits, even though a kit plus the car would end up being about the same price as an MSM. She also wouldn't be too excited about being a single mother for 2 weeks as I install the thing. I love the way the MSM looks and love the idea of a stock turbo with no work involved. But don't let that give you the idea that installing a turbo in a Miata doesn't sound like a hell of a good time to me. Honestly it would be a very fun project. Just hard to fit in with the kids, and that always makes me end up rushing projects, which I wouldn't want to do on this. The problem will be finding an MSM with low mileage in my price range. I'm game for traveling pretty much anywhere west of the Mississippi to get it, so here's hoping.

I'm not a mechanic, nor do I work with cars much on a regular basis. Just your average enthusiasts, but I do like to do my own work on my cars when I can. After researching it a bit, watching a few videos, and perusing through the FM installation manual, I think installing an FM turbo kit would be daunting, but not impossible for me. Either way, My goal is to end up with a reliable, 180hp+ Miata for daily use, whether that be through an MSM, or an after market turbo install. I'll probably drive it here and there in the winter just for fun, but mostly I'll be using the old beater during the winter.

So that's me, I'll probably be creeping on your posts, and sticking my nose in here and there where I'm not welcome, and asking some dumb questions. I'm looking forward to getting involved in the community here. This may be my first Miata, but it is FAR from my first time on an internet forum. (I'm in IT) :noob:

Welcome to the forum! Modifying a daily driver is tough due to the occasional down time while it is under construction. But it can be done.

Thanks! Yeah I would probably do it during the winter anyway, and I've got a second vehicle so that wouldn't be a huge deal.

Depending on their ages, you can get the kids involved, make them a part of the project rather than have them pushed aside because of the project. Every child is a potential gear head :)

Keith

You are so right. My oldest is 10 and she does enjoy working on the cars with me. My 7 year old boy would enjoy it but doesn't have the attention span for yet. So unfortunately that leaves the wife with the two little ones, but you couldn't be more right. I'm not even sure how I'd even present it to the wife anyway. "so... I've got $10k to spend on a car, I found a good one that is only $5k, which leaves me $5k for upgrades that I won't recoup on resell!"

OK I wouldn't put it exactly like that, but she would be much more appreciative of a turn key car rather than a project.

Ummm, I purchased a house without in depth discussion with my wife.... it is costing me a renovation a decade later, but sort of shows how I would handle it :D

Keith

paqman, congrats on signing up at the best site on the web!

Wow congrats on what's obviously a strong relationship lol.

From the Heavy Pig build thread. Works for Vlad, might not work for everyone.

Also, there is no economic justification for a 3rd vehicle Miata.

He is saying that a Miata is a toy. No matter how you try to justify it... so either treat it as a toy or don't purchase one. Fuel economy sucks for a sub 2500lb car, so that argument is out... get a VW turbo diesel if you want fuel economy.

Since it is a toy, you have to justify to your wife spending 10K on a toy. If she can't accept that then just give up and get an economical commuter car...

Keith

Shh, don't tell her it's a toy. No but seriously, I currently ride a motorcycle, and my previous car was a Mustang GT. I think it's pretty clear I'm not worried about economical justification. My third vehicle barely counts as a vehicle at all. That thing has a salvage title, no AC, no power anything, and is worth about $500. But I've had it for over 10 years, it's dead reliable, and I'll never sell it. So we don't really count that as a third vehicle. Which is why my wife is fine with me buying a "toy" to go back and forth to work in. And it's not that she'd say no to me buying a separate turbo kit and installing it, it's just that she wouldn't be too hot on the idea.

Also, if you think about the value of these cars, most of them at the age I'm looking have already deprecated drastically, so you can easily buy one, enjoy it for a few years and probably get out of it what you bought it for. Not so if I spend a bunch of money on a turbo kit. Granted if I buy a $10-$12k MSM, it probably has a bit of depreciation left in it, but they have the advantage of being rare, so can still hold value pretty good.

Sorry for rambling. I did get to go and test drive an '04 MSM yesterday with only 45k mileson it. It is really the only one for sale in Utah, so I had test drive it even if it was a bit out of my price range. However, at $12k, it's not a bad deal, and man it is in good shape. And driving one has only solidified that as my choice. I was hoping to pay cash for my next car, but I may be tempted into taking out a small loan for this one. :-D

I was kinda stunned to see my picture in a random noob into thread lol

I was going to sell it. But just couldn't do it.

Welcome to the forum lol

Thanks! She is very pretty. The girl's not bad either.

Welcome buddy. You crazy if you spend 12k on an NB even if it is an MSM. Be patient and I'm sure you can find one for a lot less than that.

I hear ya, I'd rather not. I have found quite a few on CL for $10k and under, but they've all got pretty high miles (over 80k), and there is the issue of having to travel longer distances to pick them up. This one only has 45k miles on it, and it is 20 minutes from my house lol. I'm not saying I'm going to go for it, but it sure is tempting. It is in pristine condition. Even if I can find something with lower miles under 10k, I'm not sure how much I want to risk it's condition site unseen.

That being said, I have found on in Colorado that has 45k on the clock, looks pretty good from the pictures, and the guy is only asking $10,500 for it. And it's only about an hour away from my brother, so I could have him go look at it. So I may try to consider that one. It's only about an 8 hour drive from me.

One really important thing to keep in mind:

a bone stock MSM will require quite a few things to feel and be "proper". stock ecu is beyond terrible and should be swapped out asap, stock intake and bpv are known to suck, and stock tb elbow is a known failure point on those cars.

After you upgrade those things you'll be another 3-4k into the car to make it feel like it should have from the factory, and more importantly to make it reliable. So really you'll be way over 10k all in on an MSM. Unless you find one with all those things already addressed, which is rare.

While I could see over time upgrading a few of those things as I get the time/money, I wouldn't dream of doing that stuff all at once right after buying the car. I think it is great just the way it is. Intake is not a big deal to replace, and as for the bpv, I don't really plan on increasing boost, so I'm pretty sure I could settle with the stock one until it starts to leak or something, at which point, I can upgrade. I really am more of an "upgrade when something breaks" kind of guy. I did read about the throttle body elbow, and would be sure to keep an eye out for that, but again, not a big deal with a lower mileage MSM. I'm not really into customizing a whole lot and am sure I would be fine with it just how it is for now. With a plain NB, I'm sure I would want to do more, simply because I would want more speed, but the MSM is pretty much where I would want a regular NB to be anyway, and I think that is the easier route to go.

The ecu issue I mentioned makes the MSM just as slow as a regular NB until you get to about 5k rpm. Some have it less, some have it really bad, there is no rhyme or reason to it. I'd hate to get low 20's mpg city and be as slow as a n/a miata until 5k. And redline is 6500, and of all the 6 speed miata's, the msm has the shortest gearing due to the 4.1 fd.

But if you're ok with all that, then cool.

Rain, meet parade.

lol

Better you know what you're getting into, than find out 10k later that I know what I'm talking about.

There are a bunch of them sold with all those things addressed though. So there is hope :)

A good NB with a homebrew turbo kit is a better option in a lot of ways, depending upon its options.

A better option in a lot of ways, but the MSM is the way to go.

Not a mechanic, not used to working on cars.

Swapping out parts /while driving/ is dipping your toe in. Great feeling results, little worry for car going down.

Buying an NB to put a turbo kit on to learn cars, is like learning to swim by jumping off a cliff.

Little mods feel awesome, are easy. Great risk to reward.

Both above statements are true actually.

I guess the final decision depends on your level of knowledge and comfort working on cars.

Yeah while I would enjoy the challenge of installing a turbo in a N/A NB :-D, I agree with you. I am more of a strong DIY'er than a mechanic, and right now I think the MSM would be the better choice for me. And then make small mods/improvements as time goes on.

I love the colors on MSM's. The gray is excellent, pretty much can't go wrong with that color ever, and the red...well I fell in love with the red this weekend at MRLS where there were dozens of really well kept red MSM's, the pearl looks amazing.

can't go wrong with either:party:

Lol I was thinking the same thing. As I was researching them I was really drawn to the titanium, and the one I saw in person was that velocity red mica, and man that looked good too. Honestly all the colors look good and will probably be around the the last factor in finding a good MSM, but I sure wouldn't complain with either one of those. But lower mileage and condition will have to take precedence over color sadly. :-(

If you are not that confident in doing your work yourself starting off with a "factory turbo" setup is a good way to ease into it. It starts with little things, boost controler, exhaust system, BOV, intake... what have you... and then you end up going to a full aftermarket turbo setup and FMIC :) At this point you think to yourself "I wasted so much $$$ getting the MSM and then a Flyin' Miata / BEGi system, wish I had started with a non-turbo NB"...

In reality if you are not confident in doing your own work to start with you would never pull the trigger on a full turbo kit for a regular NB, and you would end up with it staying near stock for life.

You are better off starting with the MSM and building up to doing major engine work over time :D

Keith

It's not that I'm not confident, I'm pretty sure given the time I could probably do an ok job installing a FM turbo kit, but the time and probably issues I'm going to run into don't really fit into my lifestyle right now. A turnkey car is a better option for me right now.
That is not to say that I am not still keeping my eyes on a good deal for a regular NB with maybe plans of installing a turbo years down the road. But the MSM is more tempting. :-)

Keith, I still can't believe how quickly yours came together even after all of the issues you had with your "kit".

Really? Seemed like it took forever to me! A well engineered kit with good instructions and someone mechanically competent doing the installation should take about 2 days if you don't break a stud or something like that. This is how long it took me to install my M45 supercharger... and that was a used unit that I had to get a bracket re-welded on!

Having to source parts locally that were either wrong, or missing from the kit combined with zero instructions on my kit on my car added huge delays. I started my build on the 19th of Aug and was in "running but not complete" condition by the 29th. Car is still not complete. Intake pipe is wrong, heat shield is wrong, bunch of incorrect sized bolts, the supplied radiator cap leaks bad, using the one from my stock radiator.

A bunch of the parts are simply poorly engineered, like the replacement mixing manifold. It is designed wrong, and the answer from Stephanie is "hmmm, looks like yours was built wrong"... this is 100% bullshit, mine looks identical to all the pictures I have seen of them, it is designed for a car without power steering, and if you have power steering you have to cobble together a solution on your own... BEGi sure as fuck isn't going to re-design the parts to actually work correctly. I think Stephanie just drops the ball on things like this and Corky never hears about the poor fitment issues. The question is, does Corky like it that way?

As far as I know Corky lets Stephanie run roughshod over the customers, and I am amazed they stay in business. For all my troubles and delays I have received jack shit in consideration. I knew about the customer service issues and part production delays going in, but when you add to that the fact the S6 system is poorly engineered and has boost creep issues I am totally disgusted with BEGi.

Corky needs to put Stephanie on the back burner since he can't fire his daughter, put someone competent in charge, and hire a fucking welder. If you have someone on staff as a welder, and a jig made up for manifolds and downpipes, they can knock out at least one a day... put finished parts on a shelf and have zero delay on a kit going out the door on it's way to the customer rather than 4 months delay.

Keith

PS: Dyno session Friday and drag strip this weekend!

amen

After visiting Flyin' Miata a month ago I am very impressed with their stuff. I used to have a thing for BEGI but no longer.

If I were to do it all over again I'd be using mostly FM parts. That said, I did mine "jumping off a cliff" and I built my MS3x ECU and wiring harness myself. All parts except turbo and a few small parts were bought off of craigslist over several turbo kit buys (keeping the good, selling the bad). Most of my issues were related to ECU stuff. To me, easy mode is FM kit plus model specific reverent built megasquirt. I over paid for my NB three years ago ($9,200, but only 40k miles, LS with big brakes and 6 speed, and MINT) and since then I have put about $5k into it including clutch and suspension.

Even with all the random parts, my turbo install took a 4 day weekend working by myself, not including ECU stuff. The ECU stuff I did over several months and always had the option of switching back to the stock ECU if something didn't work right.