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100 hours, still slightly worse than a stock ecu.
2 Attachment(s)
I have quite a bit of time invested into this thing now and it still runs like dog shit. I have what I think is a pretty solid fuel, timing and AFR map. It refuses to idle any lower than 45 kpa, shakes and wants to self destruct at anything leaner than 14.5 afr at idle and has an off the chart lean spike when you get into the throttle( slow or fast, doesn't matter either way its going to 19 AFR for a split second). Why does there seem to be so many different versions of tunerstudio?? every time I search for help in threads, someone refers to a chart or setting that i do not have. Most recently is AE wizard. who is this guy and why don't I have access to him? Does anyone near Virginia want to tune this for me plea$$$e? Attachment 111715
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What MS do you have? Have you paid for TS? That's when all the options unlock.
Also, if you have an older MS, such as an MS1, you'll rarely see your version of TS posted. Unless I'm posting. MSII and MSIII have completely different menus. |
msextra says to start with a large value in the accel bins. I don't have accel bins and what is a large value anyway? 1,10, or 10,000??? I just have a map and a few inputs below.
kpa threashold,time, pulse width and taper time. |
yes, paid version. diypnp. ms2extra?
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A lot of the time its not an issue of being locked or unlocked. I just don't have. such as mr. AE wizard, or these enrich bins I read about. These small differences are making learning this thing just insane.
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There's a little box with "..." in it. Click it and you'll open up your table.
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your right. I wonder how many times I have missed that in other sections. thanks!
I cant wait to see how many negative points I get for this...Whats the record for negative props and can they ever be reversed? |
That's why we're here.
That'll be $19.99. |
You need a game plan. Do things in order. If you jump around trying to tune different things based on what you seen others do in other threads and don't do things in order you're gonna have a real bad time.
Been there, done that. Start with the basics - a solid base map. make sure your req_fuel is spot on and all sensors and thresholds are calibrated and good. Then work on a solid, no-nonsense idle. Then dial in solid VE map cells that are just stationary and revving. Make a solid spark table and leave it pretty much alone. That will be almost completely the last thing you tweak. Focus on a very solid and smooth ve table and make sure your afr targets are good. No spikes, no garbage. You'll have to do a lot of autotuning for this. Then when map is nice and smooth/solid make sure your warmup trims and temp corrections are good. note the temps you're tuning the base map with so that later you can taper up/down for temp changes hwen it gets colder and hotter. Then work on your ae and eae enrichments. MSextra is a very good source of info on that, as well as diyautotune writeups, and of course this place. Between the three, thats where I got all my MS knowledge, and I've been able to easily appy it to pretty much every version of MS I've worked with so far: mspnp, diypnp, ms2e, ms3, etc. Of course lots of people helped me along the way, but that was for the more advanced stuff, not for general tuning. Hope that helps. (PS: sorry can't look at your map I'm on a computer that doesn't have TS and can't download it right now) |
If it gets rid of this lean spike, I'll gladly pay it.
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lean spike is your accel enrichments most likely
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1127971)
You need a game plan. Do things in order. If you jump around trying to tune different things based on what you seen others do in other threads and don't do things in order you're gonna have a real bad time.
Been there, done that. Start with the basics - a solid base map. make sure your req_fuel is spot on and all sensors and thresholds are calibrated and good. Then work on a solid, no-nonsense idle. Then dial in solid VE mapo cells that are just stationary and revving. Make a solid spark table and leave it pretty much alone. That will be almost completely the last thing you tweak. Focus on a very solid and smooth ve table and make sure your afr targets are good. No spikes, no garbage. You'll have to do a lot of autotuning for this. Then when map is nice and smooth/solid make sure your warmup trims and temp corrections are good. note the temps you're tuning the base map with so that later you can taper up/down for temp changes hwen it gets colder and hotter. Then work on your ae and eae enrichments. MSextra is a very good source of info on that, as well as diyautotune writeups, and of course this place. Between the three, thats where I got all my MS knowledge, and I've been able to easily appy it to pretty much every version of MS I've worked with so far: mspnp, diypnp, ms2e, ms3, etc. Of course lots of people helped me along the way, but that was for the more advanced stuff, not for general tuning. Hope that helps. (PS: sorry can't look at your map I'm on a computer that doesn't have TS and can't download it right now) |
I'll check your map when I'm on my laptop. What are you trying to get it to idle at afr wise? what injectors do you have? what is the timing at idle? surrounding cells? have you done the iacv test to determine min and max values for it?
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1127974)
lean spike is your accel enrichments most likely
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1127977)
I'll check your map when I'm on my laptop. What are you trying to get it to idle at afr wise? what injectors do you have? what is the timing at idle? surrounding cells? have you done the iacv test to determine min and max values for it?
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Stock I jectors
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13.5-14 is the best you'll get on stock injectors
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1127989)
13.5-14 is the best you'll get on stock injectors
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Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
(Post 1128033)
This explains why it feels like junk at 14.5-7. Thanks guys.
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Well mine feels like its going to self destruct at 14.7.
I just got a smooth steady idle at 13.2 this morning. |
What kind of dead times are you using?
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6 Attachment(s)
[ATTACH][ATTACH]Attachment 111754[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]
I got it running much smother today. Idle set at 13.2 ish, but just realized that i have been driving around all morning with out the iacv plugged in. The idle is more stable than ever and now Im afraid to plug it back in! Right now I have the iacv unplugged, ergo set at zero (0) and enrich turned off. currently it goes off-the-chart lean for a half second, then two numbers under target for about a second and a half AND then hits the target AFR. so two big swings to both sides of target AFR before locking on. Hold my hand and guide me to my next move, please? |
Originally Posted by furrycurry33
(Post 1128070)
What kind of dead times are you using?
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2 Attachment(s)
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I have an ms3 so my menu is a little different, but the dead times should probably be closer to 1. The battery correction I'm not sure about.. might be right, might need to be .1
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With stock injectors, 1.3 isn't terrible. I know the newer RX8 or '99+ miata injectors really like dead times closer to 1.0. You could try that, but I'm guessing it won't help. Unless I missed somewhere that you have an NB, in which case yes, change that to 1.0. But it wouldn't help accel enrichments.
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So after tuning off the ergo control, I think I am starting to understand what you guys mean when you say " tune, tune,tune"! Hitting AFR targets with ergo is easy. It seams to fix your mess. Endless amounts of cruising, tuning, wot, tuning, cruise, tune...I think I am getting it now.
I still have lean spike but have not addressed it yet either. AE is still off as well. Which brings me to my new question.... With AE turned off ( by off I mean that I have it set at 100/100 min max) why does the engine go super rich for a second, when I step on the throttle? |
probably because you dont actually have it off and the table it poorly tuned.
a car without AE turned on is almost undriveable, turn it on and tune it. |
Because when you step on the throttle you enter a different part of the VE table, presumably this area is far richer. It needs to be tuned.
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Tuning....
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1127971)
You need a game plan. Do things in order. If you jump around trying to tune different things based on what you seen others do in other threads and don't do things in order you're gonna have a real bad time.
Been there, done that. Start with the basics - a solid base map. make sure your req_fuel is spot on and all sensors and thresholds are calibrated and good. Then work on a solid, no-nonsense idle. Then dial in solid VE map cells that are just stationary and revving. Make a solid spark table and leave it pretty much alone. That will be almost completely the last thing you tweak. Focus on a very solid and smooth ve table and make sure your afr targets are good. No spikes, no garbage. You'll have to do a lot of autotuning for this. Then when map is nice and smooth/solid make sure your warmup trims and temp corrections are good. note the temps you're tuning the base map with so that later you can taper up/down for temp changes hwen it gets colder and hotter. Then work on your ae and eae enrichments. MSextra is a very good source of info on that, as well as diyautotune writeups, and of course this place. Between the three, thats where I got all my MS knowledge, and I've been able to easily appy it to pretty much every version of MS I've worked with so far: mspnp, diypnp, ms2e, ms3, etc. Of course lots of people helped me along the way, but that was for the more advanced stuff, not for general tuning. Hope that helps. (PS: sorry can't look at your map I'm on a computer that doesn't have TS and can't download it right now) |
Crap! I just realized that if AE is set at 100/100 and the rpm threshold is in the operating range, I am getting AE !
He clears the chalk board and starts over.... |
Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
(Post 1128537)
Crap! I just realized that if AE is set at 100/100 and the rpm threshold is in the operating range, I am getting AE !
He clears the chalk board and starts over.... your spark table is pretty aggressive, btw. I'm assuming n/a for life? |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1128541)
just tune AE. Don't keep it off, there's no reason whatsoever to have it turned off.
your spark table is pretty aggressive, btw. I'm assuming n/a for life? |
your spark map is like the equivalent of running 20° static timing; if that puts it in a better perspective.
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I understand. What I don't understand is why that is bad if I can get the AFR without detonation? Or is it just hard on the engine without any performance gain?
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that.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1128587)
that.
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Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
(Post 1128590)
And this is why I need a dyno to tune the spark table?
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Spark table= 500 threads.
Proven spark table= 7 with useless content. This is going to take a while. |
Can I apply turbo spark tables, up to 100kpa?
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A turbo car even at 100kpa will be flowing more than an all motor car. (lower spark values)
Depending on the turbo, some will flow more than others. Pressure =/= flow |
A couple hours searching has only resulted in a few spark tables that don't seam to apply to my build.1995, no turbo 1.8.although don't expect anyone to just hand one over, some simple direction towards one would be awesome.
searched- spark table, good spark table, solid spark table, can i see your spark table, spark, na spark table.. Am I just this bad at searching??? |
1 Attachment(s)
Here ya go
Conservative spark table - pretty sure it is the basic MSPNP table https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1399433031 |
Originally Posted by Togeneral99
(Post 1128821)
Here ya go
Conservative spark table - pretty sure it is the basic MSPNP table https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1399433031 |
Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
(Post 1128823)
I did have this one. It just seemed like a REALLY conservative map. 14* at wot just sounds weak. I guess I need to search more along the lines of how much spark is beneficial. I think I remember seeing something like that a couple weeks ago.
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G
(Post 1128828)
You will never reach that part of the map as N/A. Notice the kpa on the left is at 230 which is ~19psi. You will only ever get to 90-110kpa from and N/A engine depending on the altitude.
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One thing is unclear to me though. If my map is basically 20* static, what is the difference with this base map, besides the fact that it tops out 10* less? Right after idle it quickly jumps to 20 as well. I don't get it. Please teach me.
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They are only referring to base timing. Which is something you have to set with the factory ecu. With megasquirt you only have to ensure that the commanded timing is what you are actually running.
With the factory ecu picture the above map but instead of the cell saying say 18* of timing it would be like 3* and that would be added to your base timing. So if your base was 14* vs 20* then you add 3* to each and you get vastly different numbers You would have to know exactly what the factory map added to the base timing to compare the maps. Hopefully this makes sense to you |
Originally Posted by Togeneral99
(Post 1128881)
They are only referring to base timing. Which is something you have to set with the factory ecu. With megasquirt you only have to ensure that the commanded timing is what you are actually running.
With the factory ecu picture the above map but instead of the cell saying say 18* of timing it would be like 3* and that would be added to your base timing. So if your base was 14* vs 20* then you add 3* to each and you get vastly different numbers You would have to know exactly what the factory map added to the base timing to compare the maps. Hopefully this makes sense to you |
Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
(Post 1128878)
One thing is unclear to me though. If my map is basically 20* static, what is the difference with this base map, besides the fact that it tops out 10* less? Right after idle it quickly jumps to 20 as well. I don't get it. Please teach me.
IIRC the stock 90-97 spark map tops out at around 25° at 100kPa. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1128909)
I was suggesting your map is advanced about 10° over the stock map. Some people cant wrap their heads around full control of the map based on load and rpm and still think in terms of advancing by the CAS.
IIRC the stock 90-97 spark map tops out at around 25° at 100kPa. |
So you were referring to the top end of my map and how quick it climbs to 40 and 50*, not necessarily the low end?
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Update:
The car is running pretty darn good now. I think it is time to schedule some dyno time to find out for sure. good mileage, good power and just a tiny-tiny hesitation off idle (800) when I blip a quick full throttle. I think this may have something to do with the strange map pressure that I have at idle (still unusually high at 40-45). Thanks MIataTurbo.net users. |
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