AE driving me crazy
 

My car is bucking and jerking non-stop.

I keep staring at the AE tables and charts, and it makes no sense to me.

Also the alternator control keeps shitting the bed. Been in contact with Rev about it, but it's not looking good.

Turn the threshold up. Way up. Bring it down until it starts bucking then back up a bit. Make sure your tps is steady, same with map sensor.

I tried a few different settings. 9, 12, 50, 100, 150, 200, and 300.

All three give me the same reaction more or less.

Anything below 9 gives me accel at cruising. Above it doesn't do it, but reacts way weird if I go straight to wide open

doesn't sound like the greatest way to tune...

sounds like a poor way to tune.



very poor.




much sad.

What would you suggest?

actually tuning AE.

Well it's a start to get it to stop bucking. It wasn't meant as a replacement for something lik DIY's writeup. But your suggestion, super helpful.

even if you turned off AE it shouldn't buck like crazy. methinks you've another problem. Can't open your msq from work or I'd look it over

turning AE off makes herky jerky.

tuning AE prevents it from going lean when you hit the throttle, which is what causes the poor response.

I've never had an issue with running with it off, as I did when my tps signal went wacko. Wouldn't keep it like that, but it's shouldn't be as jerky as a over reacting AE.

So question for you AE masters. I try to tune the lean spots down with AE, but the little graph below the chart shows a rich spike too. The more I tune out the lean spike, the bigger the rich spike gets.

I'm with Vlad. Sounds like your overall fuel tune (VE map) is lousy. I'd disable AE and work on that first. If you're well-tuned, you should need almost no AE at high RPM and just a bit at low RPM to get over off-idle flat spots.

I'll bet you're super-lean off-idle.

Are you using TPS-based or MAP-based AE? If MAP-based, be aware that MAP sensor noise can trigger an AE event. Use TPS-based if you can.

I am using 100% tps.

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards as well. I never really worked on my VE map. (been using the one rev supplied).

I was reading a few other posts, but I wasn't aware that I should have really dialed in my VE map first.

However, I would still like some explanations on AE. I truthfully don't know what the hell I'm doing. To my understanding, TPS Dot is the rate of change (based on time). So if I adjust that, it causes me to go way lean, then way rich, and if I adjust the TPSdot to a larger number, it causes it to go way rich, then it'll clean up.

If your VE map is not tuned, then your observations reflect the poor VE map, not the effect of AE. VE is, by far, the most important part of this.

All right. I've got the VE map dialed in pretty good.

I took my TPSDOT and turned it up to 1000 or something crazy to keep it from activating.

Now when I shift, it goes lean then comes back. It's really annoying when I'm trying to take off since it goes lean, and wants to bog.

So, should I now work on my AE? I feel like I've got my VE tuned well enough.

post your ve map

also

MegaSquirt Acceleration Enrichment Tuning

don't miss the bottom where it links to ms extra for more reading

http://i58.tinypic.com/25jutr6.jpg
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1427471773
http://i62.tinypic.com/2vifoue.png

I feel like I can add a bit more timing, but am a little scared. I haven't quite figured out the knock sensor settings yet, so I get a lot of noise even at low RPMs.

So probably no more timing until I can get some money on the dyno.

neither one of those is your ve map

although both those tables look fine as a starting point

Fuel VE Table? It's the last image.

the whole point of AE is to remove those lean spikes when you apply heavy throttle to increase smoothidity[sic]*.

EAE takes it further and keeps AFRs stable during slower manipulations of the pedal.


*I just made up this word.

My bad, it wasn't showing up for me, I see it now.

It needs a bunch more smoothing and tuning - you have very sharp transitions in a lot of places that are for sure causing spikes and dips.

So here's a question for you that will also benefit OP if you have the answer:

does "more AE" help speed up the throttle in response to your pedal blip, or does "less AE"?

I've been seeing some really really weird things when experimenting with this. It's a response-system so its never quite fast enough to eliminate the split-second lean spike upon throttle stab, however I can see it going both ways:
when too much ae, you stab throttle and the car bogs cause its overcompensating
when too little, you stab throttle and the car bogs cause it's leaning out

Okay so here's my original map

Original
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1427482872

And this is me trying to smooth it out.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1427482872

3D
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1427482872

What do you think?

I don't understand why I have the bulge at redline closer to the middle of the map. I honestly don't think I ever hit that part of the map. Generally when I'm cruising, it's at max of 3500 RPMs. And of course when I'm getting on it, I'm at the upper right.

So far what I've learned is that you're NEVER in the upper left, and seldom on the lower right.

That looks like a damn mountain range, how do you expect that to ever run smoothly?

This is my map. I can turn AE off completely and hardly tell a difference.

Attachment 233450

Awesome, more cleaning up to do.

Thanks. Sorry it's my first time tuning. I'm using VEAL, and then making small adjustments. It's good to see another example. I'll try to clean it up more than.

How's this one look?
Tell me if I'm wrong, I pretty much took the main points of the graphs (parts that I knew VEAL touched) and just smooth them out between each other. All I did was smooth out the transitions. Wherever there were big jumps, I just based them from the columns around it, and got somewhat of an average.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1427490574

Yes, that is more or less the point. If you change VEAL's cell change resistance once you get it close it won't generate such rough maps.

If you do not have enough AE, VEAL will want to add a ton of fuel to the top left (lowRPM/highMAP), the opposite will do the opposite, but to a much lesser extent.

You might want to look into overun as well, VEAL can't tune transitions in and out of fuel cut very well. I'm pretty aggressive on my cut and return. If low MAP cells are off it will kick like a horse, or buck like a bull I should say.

I turned off overrun fuel all together, and still the same results.

So I have both AE, and ORF disabled, and it still does it.

The thing is, is that it does it any ANY rpm load. If I go to change the throttle input, it just goes lean for a second, then it goes rich.

Grr.

:vash2: AE :fawk:

is your tps calibrated?

Yes sir.

I did it like four times to be sure.

I have always had the exact same issue and I'd like a fix.

Incompletely agree with op. Initial low rpm stab always results in a lean patch. I usually cheat by richening the cells immediately above and to the right of idle.

nitrodann, that's not cheating, that's tuning it properly. :)

I always tune AE by not tuning it, as in doing exactly as you state, set the VE table so that the car behaves properly with throttle blips off idle.

Then is any further fuel is required add a bit of AE.

Done properly you shouldn't need much AE at all really.

The thing is, is that it happens everywhere for me.

Anywhere I add throttle it does it, low end, high end. Anywhere.

I've turned off Over Run Fuel, and AE completely, it it does the same thing. I've fiddleda little with AE, and now it doesn't do it under low loads, but causes a weird over rich state when I go back to cruise

I.E. Driving 30 MPH, go WOT to about 50, but when you ease on the throttle to maintain speed, it causes an overrich condition, and then it'll settle back on it's own.