Another help request (starting issues + AC)
 

Well then, first post. Forgot I joined a billion years ago just to make it to today. Background:

• Yay first Miata......finally
• Recently bought a 2001 Miata with tons of shit installed I'm trying to make heads or tails of. I'm not a newb but clearly I learn a lot from DIY as opposed to buying someone else's project. Reminds me of why I prefer to build vs.buy (this is also an apology for not being 100% up to speed). TBH, I'm still taking things apart and redoing them in an effort to a) make them proper and b) know just WTH is in the car. Playing catch up sucks compared to building and learning as you go. Should be a good base to build on though.
• Have great paperwork from original owner, not so much from second owner. I am owner #3. So parts lists for previous goods are generally pretty good, but there's def. a gap in the car's history.
• Car is running MS3 + a FM turbo kit (VII) with various upgrades (aluminum rad, oil hard lines, etc).

There are dozens of loose ends to tidy up with the car just to make sure the build is solid. To that end, I still have to ensure the Innovate wideband and controller are installed properly and then re-cal with Tunerstudio (based on what I've found so far I don't trust all installs on the car, better to revisit and redo or at least confirm this is all good). I see a discrepancy of 1-1.5 points between what the gauge and MS so certainly something to work on there.

All that being said, the car has a few nagging issues that I'm trying to figure out now to improve it's livability:

• This is minor, but cold starts aren't great. Not the end of the world but generally it won't catch without some throttle manipulation. Even then idle is weak for the 1-2 seconds following start. Still getting reliable cold starts in our current weather, however (anywhere from 70-90* since I've owned it, no true "cold" starts I guess).
• The car seems to be affected by electrical loads. With no accessories running beyond the radio and MAYBE the lights it will randomly almost stall at idle. I suspect the fans mostly but am unsure.
• AC will stall the car almost 100% of the time. Unless it's cool (which will nearly cause a stall), turning the AC on presents enough load to very reliably kill the motor.
• Hot starts do not happen. Takes 30-60 min to restart the car once stopped and at running temp. IAT sensor is post IC just behind the passenger fog light (and I wrapped in insulation just in case heatsoak was an issue, this was prior to buying a laptop to actually log things). The car bump starts just fine. Have not replaced the battery or starter an I am unsure what their age/mileage is.

I have 0 background in self tuning so I am trying to consume as much info as possible. I've attached a few logs here - cold start, warm idle when rad fans kick on (trying to pin down what might kill the motor occasionally when it's idling with no perceived load - i.e. top down at a stop light), what happens when I turn the AC on (in the log it kills the motor), and finally what a hot start looks like (no AC, just trying to restart when at operating temp and no fire).

All logs were taken in my driveway. Started the car, let it idle to capture the logs I wanted, got to operating temp, turn on AC (it died), then tried to restart to no avail. The logs of these events are shared here.

Can anyone give me some guidance on where to start? Simultaneously reading/watching as much as I can. Just seeing if I can get some help to accelerate a fix.

Oh, outside of that the car runs pretty good. Anytime outside of low load or idle it seems strong and smooth. Just have some idle/livability issues to fix. Runs 12 psi and according to the gauge display (Innovate) is running super rich...we'll see. Need to check plugs, make sure ground are good, and then calibrate MS and the gauge.

Cheers and thanks in advance!

Welcome.

Go to Meet and Greet section and introduce yourself. If you seem like you want to be a part of this society, then the society will be more responsive. If we think you are a 1 post wonder (you'd be amazed how often that happens), then we will likely not waste our time trying to help you. Post Pictures, tell us who you are, what your plans for the car are, and that sort of thing.

Post the tune under which the above logs were taken.

AFR:
1) Free air calibrate the Sensor / Controller (this is an Innovate action, has nothing to do with MS or the car, as long as the Innovate has proper power). Go to the Innovate site if you don't have the instructions.
2) Then you use "AFR Calibration" in TS to calibrate the MS to match the gauge, not the other way around.

Welcome.

DNM

Oh trust me, there’s plenty for us to chew on with this build but I thought I’d cover the “must fix” issues first. But in any case I suppose I get it. Brb with all that….well it’s dark now so maybe not.

Oops, sorry dudes. Suppose I forgot to post the existing tune. Attached here.

I don't know anything about CANBus stuff, so I cannot help with any of that.

Do you know what injectors you are using?
I don't remember my 1.5.X settings, but 20kPa seems low for over-run. Not sure if that is used for idle or only for over-run.
Do not use "Use last value" for C-L Idle settings. instead, use Initial Values Table and populate the table. Use actual idling values to populate the table.
C-L Idle Settings: PID Delay = 3
If your AFR is correct, you are pig rich. Calibrate it and see. The adjust your VE in the idle area.
Do you have a catalytic converter?
Where in NCF are you?
Get a MS3 tune for your year from Trubokitty.com (not a typo) and look it over to get a feel for approximate values for start-up and idle parameters.
Use Idle RPM Timing Correction Curve. That is what stabilizes your idle.

Does the car drive?

DNM

The car drives. And seemingly drives great! But yes, one thing I've noticed is that it's SUPER rich. As you said. Without a dyno I clearly can't watch the AFR constantly, but 4th gear pulls seem to be solidly in the 10-11:1 neighborhood. I noted early on in ownership that this was something to address.

I planned on doing some actual logged pulls this weekend. now that I have the capability to (and want to document what the two of us have both identified). That said, my initial concern was starting the car reliably and it not dying at stop lights or not starting after driving for more than a few min. Fair to point out that it all may be related. Still learning.

As for the rest of your questions - let me digest that, research some, pull some parts, and get back to you. Still a newb, still figuring out what I'm working with, etc. Sorry if I put the cart before the horse but appreciate the feedback.

Will hopefully have some updates here in a day or two.

Cheers!

Fix your AFR table. Again, look at Trubokitty for a general reference. Scary lean targets in boost.

MS, using your Wideband, can tune you cruise + (not idle) cells using "Tune Analyze Live". Research that. Dyno not needed. Fix your AFR table first, because the Auto Tuning will adjust your VE table to hit those values, and you will end up too lean up top.

It is generally recommended to "Incorporate AFR" in your fueling equation. However, switching will mess up your VE table. If you are going to fully re-tune, then now is the time to make the change.

Your over-boost is set at 210kPa. If stock engine, and a small Garrett, that should be OK. Do not go Higher. Maybe go lower until you adjust your AFR target and tune VE.

I don't know who tunes in your area, but you might consider paying someone. Sixshooter is in Tampa area. He may be able to point you to someone local.

DNM

DNM has it right; your AFR targets are way too lean under higher boost.

Your VE table around idle really needs to be dialed in. Cold start log is quite rich, initial cranking rough and EGO is pulling out it's max 15% fuel as soon as it engages.

Warm idle log looks halfway decent but still quite on the rich side, again with EGO maxed out at -15%. Your TPS and TPSdot are rather noisy.

You're running closed loop idle but the tune is not set up for it to work properly. You need to populate the CL Idle Initial Values table, then switch from "Use last value" to "Use initial value table." That combined with using the Idle RPM Correction Curve should net you a fairly stable idle over most conditions.

Some of your AC idle up settings could be bumped for an improvement in response, but the above will be the baseline on which to tweak them, not vice versa.

Update: have the current tune saved, may experiment with starting from scratch but am also looking at options for professional help (which so far has also been "we'll start over"). Your advice so far has given me a lot to look at, and given me the perspective that my two aforementioned options are probably best. As I continue to compare what I have learned over the last few days, and what I've learned/heard from discussing the issues I have with professionals, an overhaul seems like the best course. I've chased down enough non-tune related issues that shouldn't be issues b/c of shortcuts to know these are likely the best course.

So gonna keep picking away. May have other updates if I start poking around a base map.

Thanks all!

Another update: used a local tuner who got this completely sorted in about 3 hours (dyno + road). Not expensive and so worth the money. Car starts great, drives better, and makes mo powa baby. Took 3 hours. As I've said before, appreciate the insights given here that steered me down this path. As several have seen, the previous tune was super borked (which the tuner confirmed), and there are other oddities in the build that he recognized and addressed quickly (for him) that would have had me guessing for days or more (not to mention super reliant on others here). I am guessing that a DIY approach would have had me busy for weeks just to get to something decent and not even close to where the car is now.

Anyway - maybe not the typical form of help but definitely help. Thanks dudes. Will be back with other updates (in other threads) bc I still have a ton of stuff to tackle....thankfully from here I think I can handle most of it ;)

I for one would like to compare your original tune to the one you got to resolve your issues. Any chance you could post the tune here for review. Always helps for others to see what fixed issues and learn from that. Unfotunately, the forum posts rarely contain a follow up on solutions. Thanks in advance.