MustangMike

iTrader: (6)

Hey guys this might be a stupid question but my searching found nothing. The car is a 1990 with a DIYPNP. My question is would it be possible/somewhat easy to wire up another injector to the ecu, then create a separate map to control my water meth more accurately?
thanks,
Mike

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

No. Don't use a regular fuel injector with water meth or it may die.

If you have one that is compatible, sure, why not!

MustangMike

iTrader: (6)

Along as the internals are stainless I was thinking it may be ok.... is this not correct?

Ben

iTrader: (33)

I suppose you could set up staged injection, where the 1st injector output drives your 4 main injectors and the second injector output drivers your "staged" water/meth injector.

The hardware will do it. Will your injector hold up to water?

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

You would also need a rail for the injector and a mounting method... And still need a pump and a tank.

A regular WI nozzle might be easier since you don't need the rail or mount.

Ben

iTrader: (33)

We're about to release an injector mount that will make it very easy to add an extra injector.

A WI nozzle is just that, a nozzle. It doesn't have a valve to regulate flow.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

While we're on the subject, does anybody know of any "injectors" out there capable of passing water or methanol reliably?

I know that Aquamist has their PWM-controlled "high speed valve", was wondering if there's anything more injector-like out there?

MustangMike

iTrader: (6)

Im trying to find an injector that will, I've been busy lately. As far as a "rail" goes, I made an aluminum bungthat will be welded on the intercooler piping and will hold the injector in place. The tank and pump will be utilized from my previous set up.
thanks,
Mike

Ben

iTrader: (33)

FIC can be ordered with meth compatibility. It's like a buck or two more for the seals that are required.

I don't know about water + meth mixture compatibility.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

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Ben

iTrader: (33)

No, don't be silly Joe. I obviously meant Feline Idiopathic Cystitis.

MustangMike

iTrader: (6)

^^^^ Ahahahahaha I felt like an idiot because was unsure of what FIC stood for, glad it wasn't just me.

MustangMike

iTrader: (6)

Would adding a corrosion inhibitor added to the water, such as the ones used for radiators, solve the problem of finding special injectors?

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Yes but you still need a pump. And some way of turning on the pump. Progressive control will make for more intuitive tuning.



That motherfukkka is just a solenoid.



You still need a way to give the injector access to water. That = rail.


Ugh that sounds stupid. I'm telling you. If you use a fuel injector you will still need:


Water/meth tank
Water/meth pump
water/meth line
water/meth rail
way of controlling injection

You may as well just run a regular WI nozzle. It would allow you to eliminate:

rail.

Did I mention that WI nozzle is like $15???????? And WI line is like $2/ft????

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

BTW I looked into this stuff because I am running high HP and high boost (600+, 40psi) and damn it would have been a real pain in the *** to run real injectors for meth instead of WI parts.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Yes, but it's a solenoid which can be controlled with a relatively high degree of precision.

There are advantages and disadvantages to such a design.

On the plus side, using a PWM-controlled solenoid upstream of conventional WI nozzle will produce a fairly consistent output (eg, a continuous spray of water, rather than discrete pulses of water.) On the minus side, it does not allow for the same degree of precision that a fuel injector (or similar device) would, nor it is as easily controlled with a Megasquirt.


And a pointed stick costs less than a Mauser SP66. But the latter is a much more precise way of poking holes in things.


It would be nice if a device existed which were roughly analogous to a fuel injector (eg: it has discrete on and off states, an integral nozzle, and can be operated at the same speed as the primary injectors) which were capable of passing either straight water, straight methanol, or a mixture of the two without concern for corrosion or failure of internal parts.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Joe even though i am tunning more nozzles than everyone else on this site combined, I would love to have a real fuel injection system as oppose to my aquamist.

Tell us how it can be done more easily than the traditional WI please.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

At the risk of sounding condescending, I'd have thought that this was self-evident.

Assuming a device which is functionally similar to a fuel injector, you would connect them to the MS3 and configure them as secondary staged injectors. Thus, the amount of timing of water injection can be precisely controlled and synchronized with the main injectors.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

You still need the tank, pump, regulator, rail, injector, and if you want to do staged injection that makes tuning kludgy. I guess you could adjust volume with the regulator.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Well, you need the tank, pump, and plumbing anyway. A rail isn't needed if the "injectors" are retained by other means (eg, male thread in the "pintle" area.)

If you're trying to convince me that such a system would be inherently more complex than one which uses passive nozzles and PWM regulation of the pump, you don't have to, as I'm not arguing to the contrary.

What I am saying is that my own quick-and-dirty bench testing has shown me that the degree to which you can effectively regulate water delivery (while still maintaining decent atomization) by PWM control of a Shurflo-style pump is quite limited and crude by way of comparison to a system using an injector-like delivery device controlled directly by the ECU.