dead coil-again
 

ok this really pissed me off
i installed MS again, the clicking noise that was there before is now gone (thanks soctt) so thats a good thing (harness issue), however the same coil just died again(cyl. 2-3), so therefore im pissed cause i cant afford to keep trying new coils over and over again...and did i mention i cant figure out whats causing it??? yeah!
so i need help and here is what i did
bone stock car basically without MAF
the map was already loaded and so was the firmware, so thats not what killed the two coils in both instances
after i plugged it all up and got the computer and MS communicating freely i went to try and start the car and the coil was already dead
so first attempt at starting the car and starts on 2 cyl. and i get the usuall half input on the tach while MS is showing actual input...so its clrearly a dead coil.
so i check for spark and indeed, no spark on #2-3, definitively dead coil again, same thing same coil as first time
what could be the cause of this?
some things i can think off:
bad firmware
bad base PnP 94-95 map
bad MS
bad harness
bad operator (me)

i know some of these can automatically be ruled out, so lets hear all suggestions please, i cant afford many more coils :td:
fortunately the car can sit over the winter and if it is a bigger issue i got the time to sort it all out
thanks
dan

p.s. Ben, i didnt change any settings since you last touched it, so it should all be good...no?

i wouldn't mind getting another glowing itrader feedback. i still have 2 good ones if you want one. and if i ever get around to doing the COPs i have for both my 94's i'll have another 4.

haha, appreciate it, im thinking about COPs as well, but first i have to figure this shit out, its pissing me off not knowing whats causing the one coil to die, on stock ecu it was fine, soon as the MS went in it blew...
we can certainly work something out, but im not putting another coil in there till i can figure out whats causing them to blow...
in the mean time ill try and get to making those PnP harnesses (if thats what you want to call it) for the COPs
i hope someone will be able to pin point this problem, i want to start tuning that damn thing and i cant even get it to run on all 4 cyl. yet

i did spend some time this weekend tuning my friends NB with the EMU, that was fun so i've already been bitten by the bug and need my own fix

That sucks.
I'd be looking for a hardware problem on the spark output of the ms.

make me a nice PNP harness for my COPs and I'll owe you.

i was thinking of just going to a pick&pull and grabbing the harness of a corolla

you wont owe me...i think ill try to get started tonight
where can i buy a cheap dremmel and cutting tools? HF? ill let you know tonight how it goes...

Dan, if you wanna send the MS back this time I'll go back over that as well. I dunno what the issue could be, but you never know. Sorry about this, this just completely ruins your MS experience.

:( tell me about it
before i send the MS back, how can i make sure that all else is well
ill PM you a thought...

dwell settings? thats what killed both of my coils.

ok...thats what im thinking...so i need to talk to someone who has a 94 and see what their settings are, maybe thats it, and if not it will further narrow down the problem...
now i need someone with a 94 to help me

no, I don't think it's your dwell settings, because the same coil fried immediately again. it's the fact that the failure was immediate that makes me think there is a hardware issue.

the hardware as in MS or the harness?
excuse if im asking the obvious!
this really sux, Ben, you remember what we did, at start up the coil was already dead, same thing happened again, first start and the coil was dead...fuck
i hope i get this straightened out cause it doesnt look very good as of now...

I would look at the MS for a difference in the spark outputs. I don't know what is involved in modding a MS board for the miata, but a simple error like transposing legs on a transistor could cause all sorts of havoc. If you don't see anything obvious, then a stimulator might be useful.

I'm sure Scott will take care of you. And you could even send it to DIY, if worse comes to worse. Their shop fee is reasonable.

But yeah, that coil failed fast. It was dead before the car started the first time.

i've been talking to scott and we came up with a game plan in diagnosing everything that could be wrong
we may have a solution as early as tonight when i get home, Scott has been very helpful in aiding me with his knowledge...many thanks to you man
cross yo fingas everyone

I don't know dude, our MS's were made in the same batch, we both have 94's and the same problems... Most of mine are fixed... (all but the mis-fire)

should i drop another coil in the mail?

yes please...;)
but i am not giving it another go until i can figure out what killed the first two
im also gonna start piecing together a COP set up, but it may take some time
thanks paul

Merry Christmas FTW.

i have two x-masses..muahaha
just so you know
one is in Jan. 7th

I would skip another coil, Just go for COPS, These ignitors in the 94-97 are very sensitive, believe me I've smoked what, 4 sets now between 2 cars??? ( I lost count)...

Did you recheck the gray shielded tach wire? Better yet, install a new one. That fixed my problem.

Also, do all three of your LED's light up?



I would skip another coil, Just go for COPS, These ignitors in the 94-97 are very sensitive, believe me I've smoked what, 4 sets now between 2 cars??? ( I lost count)...

none of the LED's light up, they are reversed...i know
what gray wire are you talking about, you are giving me hope here...lol
where is it located? on the MS harness?
so, you had the same problem, just one coil would go out before you even start cranking?
i started messing around with a COP idea, i may have them done soon...
thanks for all your help man

the tach wire and shield are fine.

OK...scott, ill email you the file tonight

alright, i figured everyone would like to hear that my MS issues seems to be resolved, well not yet but at least we know what was killing my coils...
this is my board
Attachment 215013
this is what its supposed to look like
Attachment 215014
anyone see whats wrong??? lol
i am so relieved, thanks for all your help scott
i will report with results probably this weekend
cross yo fingas errbody lol

ps. in case you dont see whats wrong, look at the two resistors by the LEDs and look closely for location where they are supposed to be on the board

Hey Dan, I just discovered this thread. It sure is curious we had similar issues at the same time. Please keep me posted on whether this does solve the problem.

If indeed this fixes it I think this would then a good time to consider cops. If a dumbass like me can do them anybody can!:gay:

I'll be glad to hear you've had no issues either.

about your p.s.; even I could see that!

I'm dying to see your car turboed!

there's no doubt that's what wrong. simply put, the warmup output was constantly supplying some voltage to the coils. this killed them. which is why one coil died and not the other.

I spent all day today staring at the picture, sent it to chad who didn't see aproblem and even Abe, then we starting discussing it and then it became obvious, so obvious that i feel like a retarded retard.

I was at the point where I was going to have Dan just send me that MS back and I'd give him my working one.

No joke. I feel like an idiot not noticing that. After looking at MS after MS you think we would know better.
The funnier thing was i hit page end and read that post from the bottom up. So i stared at the correct image for like 5 minutes trying to figure out what was wrong with the LEDs. Then i realized there were two pictures. Man i'm slow today.

wow, but believe me, i dont blame ya man

scott, thanks again a bunch...

spaniard, im rigth there with ya buddy, thanks for the positive wishes
as far as COPs go im in the process of making a harness that uses stock coil connectors to remain PnP and is reversable in minutes...im in the starting stages though, could be done this weekend, ill post pics

Dan, you just made my year. I don't know shit about MS but when I saw your pics I could see the 2 resistors (shows you how much I know; I had to look back to your post to re-read their names!) that both Braineack and Chad couldn't see, WOW.

Just in case I get on their wrong side; Chad and Braineack: :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

hahaha. :gay::gay::gay:

Let me know if you're already running the car and if so how does it feel?

Rafa

I give myself credit for messing it up intially, and discovering the problem....

Spaniard, keep in mind, when we were looking at my board, we didnt think to put a picture of a good one next to it, we were just looking at my board by itself, that makes it a lot harder, lol
it looks so easy now when you put two of them next to each other, wish we would have thought of that sooner, but oh well
also, im not near my car, about 100 miles (160km, for you, lol) away adn wont be able to touch it until saturday...so i can not wait to give it a shot tomorrow, if it all works out the COPs are next and then boooooooooooooooost yay
some people understand me, but i must say, it took some serious self control to do it the right way, i've been bit by the boost bug for a long time now but wanted to do the MS first and i think im finaly there
thanks everyone for your help

I would hate for this post to be the last one on your thread but I couldn't leave the subject without saying that your explanation about seeing both pics one next to the other does make everything obvious. Since I had not considered that I apologize to both Braineack and Chad and hope they take it in good fun and in the spirit of someone who is currently enjoying an 8psi turboed car with no detonation in large part thanks to the contributions of people like you and both of them.

BTW, I concur with you. You've gone about your project in the same manner wanted to tackle mine. I always wanted to put in a new EMS before going turbo. Circumstances beyond my control prevented me from doing so and we got to November which was the date I had originally planned to turbo my car. This decision was based on local weather (from November on until March it gets a little cooler down here;) and I've always been scared of the Miata's cooling system).

FWIW, many moons ago I used to think in Kms/ per hour only. Even though I still convert the figures in my head I finally got used to miles per hour.

Thanks for all your assistance. I plan to bother you again. I saw some of your posts in another thread about suspension settings and I'm not happy with mine.

Regards,

Rafa

glad to see this thing resolved.
Even more glad not having to listen to your BS. JK friend lets make it work this weekend, maybe even solve my vacuum problem. I guess shit happens and even Braineacks can make mistakes. don't take it the wrong way i do give you credit building these things.

its all good, we got a big list of things to do this weekend between my car and yours...but we'll get it all done!!! i hope

great success, running rich but its running...thanks all, ill be posting more later, gotta go try and tune it a bit...
any suggestions lemme know, its around 10-11afr running without MAF